Value of: Shattenkirk to NYR

[KirkOut]

It's probably because the vast majority of Shattenkirk discussions are hijacked by Blues fans who refuse to recognize reality and history for what they are and instead choose to believe in this fairytale of signed-to-term and/or young roster talent for an impending UFA.

Nobody cares what he means to St. Louis. If he's that important, they should sign him. If he's not, then trade him for something rather than allowing him to walk. It's what 99% of NHL teams would do and have done in the same situation, and that includes clubs who are more successful than the Blues.

exactly, this is the kind of stuff people with people who don't have a handle on the situation constantly say. This is what Blues fans keep dealing with

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

The Blues are in a position where they will absolutely balance between keeping him and letting him walk and trading him.

There isn't really a balance to be had; you know when the deadline is. I know when the deadline is. Keep him as late as possible, sure, but if you don't think he's coming back or he's made it absolutely clear he isn't... you trade him. There should be zero hesitation.

The west is absolute garbage this year. Even with the Blues and their medicore play this year, another deep run is possible.

It is, but it was also possible all those other years and didn't happen. Now it's time to look to the future, and that's more important than discarding an asset for free just because you want to roll the second round dice.

That's worth more to the fanchise then a handful of low value assets. Thats something the armchair GMs of other teams need to realize.

And yet ACTUAL GMs have almost always erred the other way. Funny how that works, eh?

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

exactly, this is the kind of stuff people with people who don't have a handle on the situation constantly say. This is what Blues fans keep dealing with

"Handle on the situation" = not a Blues fan who goes to sleep at night with visions of 1Cs dancing in their head.

Sorry, but there's zero real-world justification for what you're proposing. It's not going to happen.

 

[KirkOut]

"Handle on the situation" = not a Blues fan who goes to sleep at night with visions of 1Cs dancing in their head.

Sorry, but there's zero real-world justification for what you're proposing. It's not going to happen.

I don't have that vision dancing anywhere on my body. This is in response to Rangers fans offering 3rd liners / AHL players for Shattenkirk. aka nothing that helps the Blues now or in the future.

 

[Dbrownss]

There isn't really a balance to be had; you know when the deadline is. I know when the deadline is. Keep him as late as possible, sure, but if you don't think he's coming back or he's made it absolutely clear he isn't... you trade him. There should be zero hesitation.



It is, but it was also possible all those other years and didn't happen. Now it's time to look to the future, and that's more important than discarding an asset for free just because you want to roll the second round dice.



And yet ACTUAL GMs have almost always erred the other way. Funny how that works, eh?

When a team actually offers value, Armstrong will trade Shattenkirk, but until that happens he will keep him. He's not going to hurt his team this year for assets that have a low chance to help the Blues in the future. The Blues' time is now, so unless a team offers up a Bluechip future asset. Dont expect to see Shattenkirk traded for what everyone's been saying. I personally don't expect a grand return but I much less expect a package of a tweener+B/C prospect+ meh pick.

"Handle on the situation" = not a Blues fan who goes to sleep at night with visions of 1Cs dancing in their head.

Sorry, but there's zero real-world justification for what you're proposing. It's not going to happen.

we're not getting a 1c for Shattenkirk. People keep asking Blues fans what they want....what else do you expect? Were not involved in any discussion other then with people who are just as clueless

 

[bleedblue1223]

And yet ACTUAL GMs have almost always erred the other way. Funny how that works, eh?

Actually no, most contenders hold onto their expiring players. We did it with Backes, and every year, there are plenty of others.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I'll be that guy and say the Rangers shouldn't be trading any assets for Shattenkirk because he can sign here in the offseason should the team want him/he wants the team.

The Blues also declined an offer from the Rangers earlier in the season so I don't see it happening

 

[Spektre]

"Handle on the situation" = not a Blues fan who goes to sleep at night with visions of 1Cs dancing in their head.

Sorry, but there's zero real-world justification for what you're proposing. It's not going to happen.

It's like you have created your own axe to grind and then done so. A Rangers fan started the thread. A Rangers fan offered Stepan in a deal. There's nowhere in this entire thread where Blues fans are all of a sudden expecting a McDavid for Shattenkirk. Explain what was proposed by Blues fans that has no " real-world justification"??

 

[Linkens Mastery]

So Ranger fans, you all already know we have no need for the types players you are offering and don't want to give up type of players we need. So like lets stop making Trade offers to argue then?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Stepan is available, and his cap is closer.
But you would need to add. Offers?

Stepan or bust
not moving Miller/Hayes/Nieves/Zib

Stepan IS available, and we'd love to swap one of the vet core for the younger core.
But that does NOT mean he is being given away.

You are the only one who wants to trade Stepan. The whole "Stepan IS available" is your POV. nobody who is a Rangers fan agrees with you.

 

[Kurt Cobain]

I'll be that guy and say the Rangers shouldn't be trading any assets for Shattenkirk because he can sign here in the offseason should the team want him/he wants the team.

The Blues also declined an offer from the Rangers earlier in the season so I don't see it happening

How are you getting cap space to sign Shattenkirk?

 

[Dijock94]

How are you getting cap space to sign Shattenkirk?

They actually have some cap space and can get a lot more depending on who Vegas takes/if they trade Nash

 

[bernmeister]

You are the only one who wants to trade Stepan. The whole "Stepan IS available" is your POV. nobody who is a Rangers fan agrees with you.

wrong, and deceitfully misleading
some on our board have said they would, or would consider 'getting on board' with moving Stepan for the right return, citing the play of Zib, and the emergence of Hayes, with ample depth including JT Miller at pivot in top 6 as an option.

what is not clear is what is the best deployment of Stepan
do you eat part of his 6.5 and REALLY up his return value, because SO many MORE teams can fit 4.0+ in their budget, so there are WAY many offers to choose from?
or
do you move him now at full pop?
and if so, what is the return?
there are good returns like Dumba as a base, but an inability to complete the deal, and a recent emergence by Eric Staal lessening the urgency for that particular trade.

What you are overlooking also is that Shattenkirk expiring is not just a plum RD; this is a guy who -- ya gotta risk to trust him, but still he -- enables you to avoid a protection slot at the expansion draft.

Please kindly admit this.
Please stop trying to make me capitulate to your fantasy that Stepan is above the normal cycle that applies to most players, that it is their time until a younger, and more importantly, a cheaper replacement, emerges during this cap reality world.
Instead, bend, buckle and break in your resistance to the fact that at some point soon, likely this year, Stepan is moved.

Ergo Stepan IS available.

How are you getting cap space to sign Shattenkirk?

We are moving Stepan and Nash, and MAYBE, MAYBE Staal, if he waives his NMC.

 

[Dijock94]

Stepan is not going to be traded.

Staal is not going to waive.

This isn't NHL17

 

[bernmeister]

Stepan is not going to be traded.

Staal is not going to waive.

This isn't NHL17

Stepan will be moved
Staal not likely, but 1-2 clubs MIGHT be a fit
eventually, emergence of Skjei, arrival of Graves and other factors may suggest writing on the wall to him.

However, his improved play this year has pushed this back.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Stepan is not going to be traded.

Staal is not going to waive.

This isn't NHL17

Just ignore him, man. Every, and I mean EVERY, proposal he posts is about trading Stepan. He always wants to trade players with a pending M+NMC/NTC for young kids on ELCs.

He wanted to trade Brassard a few years ago, until his clause kicked in.

 

[bernmeister]

Just ignore him, man. Every, and I mean EVERY, proposal he posts is about trading Stepan. He always wants to trade players with a pending M+NMC/NTC for young kids on ELCs.

He wanted to trade Brassard a few years ago, until his clause kicked in.

Calling you out for AGAIN being misleading.

You make it sound like I was just willing to give Brass away for a 7th, or nothing, just to be rid of him.

Conveniently ignores I wanted a nice return (many variations there).

 

[Dijock94]

Just ignore him, man. Every, and I mean EVERY, proposal he posts is about trading Stepan. He always wants to trade players with a pending M+NMC/NTC for young kids on ELCs.

He wanted to trade Brassard a few years ago, until his clause kicked in.

I know. I read a lot more than I post. Eventually the unrealistic blow it up video game trade proposals get to be too much. I like reading ideas from other fans, but to a degree.

 

[Vitto79]

I'd be surprised to see STL deal him cause they want to win it all . Which is why I see NYR sign him as a ufa and deal Nash

 

[Shootertooter]

You are the only one who wants to trade Stepan. The whole "Stepan IS available" is your POV. nobody who is a Rangers fan agrees with you.

I am not sure if Stepan is actually available but with a 6.5 M cap hit and a NMC kicking in after this season........he would be the logical guy to go over Zib or Hayes.

I would try to focus on Trouba rather than Shattenkirk in trade though.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I am not sure if Stepan is actually available but with a 6.5 M cap hit and a NMC kicking in after this season........he would be the logical guy to go over Zib or Hayes.

I would try to focus on Trouba rather than Shattenkirk in trade though.

You do not trade a guy right before his NMC/NTC kicks in. That sends a bad signal to players for future contract negotiations. What is the value of a clause if the team trades you before it starts?

 

[bleedblue1223]

You do not trade a guy right before his NMC/NTC kicks in. That sends a bad signal to players for future contract negotiations. What is the value of a clause if the team trades you before it starts?

Teams have done it before. Players don't over analyze these things like fans do.

 

[Moon Knight]

You do not trade a guy right before his NMC/NTC kicks in. That sends a bad signal to players for future contract negotiations. What is the value of a clause if the team trades you before it starts?

Flyers did that with Jeff Carter if my memory is correct. And then he whined his way out of Columbus.

Still not interested in a Stepan for Shattenkirk swap though.

 

[Alklha]

You do not trade a guy right before his NMC/NTC kicks in. That sends a bad signal to players for future contract negotiations. What is the value of a clause if the team trades you before it starts?

This is meaningless now.

What happened in the past is that players could sign ridiculous long contracts and be traded before the NTC/NMC kicked in because they weren't eligible for the clause at that point. The term limit on contracts somewhat addresses that. It's a risk the player assumes on signing the contract, and players understand things can change in the 18 months between a player signing and being traded before a clause starts.

The bigger issue was that a player on an expiring contract could sign an extension with a NTC/NMC during the season and it wouldn't start until July 1. Trading a player before the NTC started in this scenario would make players take notice. However, this has been resolved in the current CBA and if a player signs an extension with a NTC then it can start immediately.

Not that this matters, as Stepan isn't getting traded.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

This is meaningless now.

What happened in the past is that players could sign ridiculous long contracts and be traded before the NTC/NMC kicked in because they weren't eligible for the clause at that point. The term limit on contracts somewhat addresses that. It's a risk the player assumes on signing the contract, and players understand things can change in the 18 months between a player signing and being traded before a clause starts.

The bigger issue was that a player on an expiring contract could sign an extension with a NTC/NMC during the season and it wouldn't start until July 1. Trading a player before the NTC started in this scenario would make players take notice. However, this has been resolved in the current CBA and if a player signs an extension with a NTC then it can start immediately.

Not that this matters, as Stepan isn't getting traded.

But a clause, NMC or NTC, can only count for UFA years. Stepan signed his extension in 2015, and the first 2 years are RFA years. Therefore, the clause cannot kick in until year 3.