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Value of: Shattenkirk to NYR

Spektre

Spektre

Registered User
Apr 10, 2010
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If the deal is:

Shattenkirk + Schmaltz for Stepan + 2018 + 2019 2nds

Let's get the GM's on the phone and seal the deal.
 

ManUtdTobbe

Registered User
Jun 28, 2016
5,173
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Sweden
Signed Stepan is worth more then an unsigned Shattenkirk and Schmaltz is not worth 2x 2nds so no, that's not a good deal for NYR at all.
 
WesMcCauley

WesMcCauley

Registered User
Apr 24, 2015
8,616
2,600
Spektre said:
If the deal is:

Shattenkirk + Schmaltz for Stepan + 2018 + 2019 2nds

Let's get the GM's on the phone and seal the deal.
Click to expand...

Would never give up the picks aswell. Stepan in his prime on a longterm contract is definitely worth more than Shatty. I dont really like trading Stepan at all, it would destroy our center depth
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
27,783
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Pavel Buchnevich said:
One season of Shattenkirk isn't worth Stepan. Not even close.
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ManUtdTobbe said:
Signed Stepan is worth more then an unsigned Shattenkirk and Schmaltz is not worth 2x 2nds so no, that's not a good deal for NYR at all.
Click to expand...

meldelaget said:
Would never give up the picks aswell. Stepan in his prime on a longterm contract is definitely worth more than Shatty. I dont really like trading Stepan at all, it would destroy our center depth
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People have to get that come next year, we need to move Nash AND Stepan to have salary tp pay increases and finance Shattenkirk, even if he gives us a break in the 5.8 ballpark.

If we can get a better return for Stepan/Stepan+, we SHOULD do THAT and take our chances with Shatty. However, at 6.5, if we don't eat any of that, it is not easy to do and get max value.

Assuming we would make that trade with a close rival, would you do Stepan + Klein for Letang? It's nice on a humanitarian basis that Letang recovered from blood clots, but going forward, is that a risk? You see my point. Not so simple.

Stepan is gonna return a high cap. It's not gonna yield 3 Dumbas each on a good number w/RFA.
It can't be helped. It is equilibrium forcing balance in a cap world.

So show me you got a partner agreeing to take Stepan in a better deal for us, or go with this fallback. We can't take Shattenkirk and protect him, but while it is a risk he doesn't screw us, it is an acceptable risk, and a gesture of trust he signs w/us after expansion draft. And it would be great to have him now as clearly need for 1RD is stronger than another C.

My instinct to add 2 3rds was better value, but I think we can be a tad generous here. We are acquiring a late first RD who is ELC protected and could well be part of our solution not far down the road for 2RD, 3RD to start.
 
WesMcCauley

WesMcCauley

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Apr 24, 2015
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bernmeister said:
People have to get that come next year, we need to move Nash AND Stepan to have salary tp pay increases and finance Shattenkirk, even if he gives us a break in the 5.8 ballpark.

If we can get a better return for Stepan/Stepan+, we SHOULD do THAT and take our chances with Shatty. However, at 6.5, if we don't eat any of that, it is not easy to do and get max value.

Assuming we would make that trade with a close rival, would you do Stepan + Klein for Letang? It's nice on a humanitarian basis that Letang recovered from blood clots, but going forward, is that a risk? You see my point. Not so simple.

Stepan is gonna return a high cap. It's not gonna yield 3 Dumbas each on a good number w/RFA.
It can't be helped. It is equilibrium forcing balance in a cap world.

So show me you got a partner agreeing to take Stepan in a better deal for us, or go with this fallback. We can't take Shattenkirk and protect him, but while it is a risk he doesn't screw us, it is an acceptable risk, and a gesture of trust he signs w/us after expansion draft. And it would be great to have him now as clearly need for 1RD is stronger than another C.

My instinct to add 2 3rds was better value, but I think we can be a tad generous here. We are acquiring a late first RD who is ELC protected and could well be part of our solution not far down the road for 2RD, 3RD to start.
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What are you talking about? We dont need to trade Stepan at all and we might be fine with keeping Nash aswell. If we trade Stepan our center depth is bad again. Buy out Girardi and we can afford Shatty at 6-6,5 and resign Zibanajad. Stepan is our #1 center on a longterm fair contract and he is in his prime. He isnt the guy to move unless we get something great back. When Nash´s contract is up after next season we get 7,8 in cap from that. We can afford to not get rid of him aswell and sign Shatty most likely. We can also move a guy like Klein if we need to move some salary and get a decent return.
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
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meldelaget said:
What are you talking about? We dont need to trade Stepan at all and we might be fine with keeping Nash aswell. If we trade Stepan our center depth is bad again. Buy out Girardi and we can afford Shatty at 6-6,5 and resign Zibanajad. Stepan is our #1 center on a longterm fair contract and he is in his prime. He isnt the guy to move unless we get something great back. When Nash´s contract is up after next season we get 7,8 in cap from that. We can afford to not get rid of him aswell and sign Shatty most likely. We can also move a guy like Klein if we need to move some salary and get a decent return.
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bold is flawed

Buyout is not a simple matter of just eat the $.
There are cap consequences, which improve over time, but we do not want that hit this year, and would prefer to avoid it next.

Reality thus requires moving Nash/Stepan or both, esp since THERE ARE RAISES DUE, WHICH YOU CONVENIENTLY IGNORE.

And Stepan is NOT our 1C
right now that is Zib

and going forward, I would prefer Miller and Hayes potential also,
 
WesMcCauley

WesMcCauley

Registered User
Apr 24, 2015
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bernmeister said:
bold is flawed

Buyout is not a simple matter of just eat the $.
There are cap consequences, which improve over time, but we do not want that hit this year, and would prefer to avoid it next.

Reality thus requires moving Nash/Stepan or both, esp since THERE ARE RAISES DUE, WHICH YOU CONVENIENTLY IGNORE.

And Stepan is NOT our 1C
right now that is Zib

and going forward, I would prefer Miller and Hayes potential also,
Click to expand...
https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout_calculator/dan-girardi#results

Buy out G is 2,6 17/18 3,6 in 18/19, 3,6 in 19/20 and 1,1 three seasons after that. Its not a problem. It gives us 3+ million to replace him on the 3rd pair for 3 years. Which raises? Only Zib need a new contract? Nash and Klein´s contract is up after next season which gives us 7,8+2,9=10,7 extra in cap space when Miller,Vesey and Hayes need a new contract. Salary cap goes up a couple mill a season. Its not a problem. You need to understand that the management will never trade away all 25+ players for 20 year olds. Thats not how you build a winning team, look at Edm with only youngsters leading the team for years. Im not for adding veterans but no reason getting rid of good veterans(specially on good contracts) just because you want a former first rounder because you love youngsters on elc who was picked top 10 in the draft.

If you ask our coaches and management im pretty sure everyone would say Stepan is our #1 center. 15 games from Zib doesnt make him a better player than Stepan who is a consistent top line twoway center and has been that for years now.
 
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bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
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meldelaget said:
https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout_calculator/dan-girardi#results

Buy out G is 2,6 17/18 3,6 in 18/19, 3,6 in 19/20 and 1,1 three seasons after that. Its not a problem. It gives us 3+ million to replace him on the 3rd pair for 3 years. Which raises? Only Zib need a new contract? Nash and Klein´s contract is up after next season which gives us 7,8+2,9=10,7 extra in cap space when Miller,Vesey and Hayes need a new contract. Salary cap goes up a couple mill a season. Its not a problem. You need to understand that the management will never trade away all 25+ players for 20 year olds. Thats not how you build a winning team, look at Edm with only youngsters leading the team for years. Im not for adding veterans but no reason getting rid of good veterans(specially on good contracts) just because you want a former first rounder because you love youngsters on elc who was picked top 10 in the draft.

If you ask our coaches and management im pretty sure everyone would say Stepan is our #1 center. 15 games from Zib doesnt make him a better player than Stepan who is a consistent top line twoway center and has been that for years now.
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Buyout is terribad this year and painful after
Should be avoided
not at all costs if no other option, but we should work diligently to avoid now.

I disagree on Stepan
HE HAS PLATEAUED
others have more potential, Zib is already better

just let it go...
 
bluemandan

bluemandan

Ya Ma Goo!
Mar 18, 2008
3,835
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Infinitum Vitae said:
Bottom six forward that can jump into the lineup and help right now

A left D prospect that plays a excellent two way game with a hard shot.

And a goalie prospect that you can keep or flip for different assets.
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So Shatty for a bottom six guy, a goalie that we don't have room for, and a prospect?

What of that is supposed to be appealing? The Blues aren't rebuilding.
 
KirkOut

KirkOut

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Nov 23, 2012
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To my team: Shattenkirk

To Blues: a bunch of garbage they don't need

Don't like it?? Prepare to be disappointed!!!

-every HF shattenkirk thread
 
stl76

stl76

No. 5 in your programs, No. 1 in your hearts
Jul 2, 2015
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KirkOut said:
To my team: Shattenkirk

To Blues: a bunch of garbage they don't need

Don't like it?? Prepare to be disappointed!!!

-every HF shattenkirk thread
Click to expand...

You forgot the inevitable chorus of "just wait and sign him as an UFA. *insertteamhere* would be foolish to waste assets when we can sign him for free."

:rolleyes:
 

PatrikOverAuston

Laine > Matthews
Jun 22, 2016
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Winnipeg
Boombox Generation said:
Pretty much this.

It's all we hear.
Click to expand...

It's probably because the vast majority of Shattenkirk discussions are hijacked by Blues fans who refuse to recognize reality and history for what they are and instead choose to believe in this fairytale of signed-to-term and/or young roster talent for an impending UFA.

Nobody cares what he means to St. Louis. If he's that important, they should sign him. If he's not, then trade him for something rather than allowing him to walk. It's what 99% of NHL teams would do and have done in the same situation, and that includes clubs who are more successful than the Blues.
 
Dbrownss

Dbrownss

Registered User
Jan 5, 2014
31,359
8,734
EdmontonExpress said:
It's probably because the vast majority of Shattenkirk discussions are hijacked by Blues fans who refuse to recognize reality and history for what they are and instead choose to believe in this fairytale of signed-to-term and/or young roster talent for an impending UFA.

Nobody cares what he means to St. Louis. If he's that important, they should sign him. If he's not, then trade him for something rather than allowing him to walk. It's what 99% of NHL teams would do and have done in the same situation, and that includes clubs who are more successful than the Blues.
Click to expand...
The Blues are in a position where they will absolutely balance between keeping him and letting him walk and trading him. The west is absolute garbage this year. Even with the Blues and their medicore play this year, another deep run is possible.

That's worth more to the fanchise then a handful of low value assets. Thats something the armchair GMs of other teams need to realize.
 
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