Value of: Shattenkirk to NYR

[WesMcCauley]

What would Blues want from the NYR? Instead of just making a proposal i thought it would be better to actually ask Blues fans what they need and would want in return so we dont offer someone they have no need for

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[bleedblue1223]

There really isn't a good fit with the Rangers.

 

[tjung0831]

There really isn't a good fit with the Rangers.

Not a good fit? A trade with the Rangers would be the best option for Shattenkirk. Much better than any potential deal with Boston.

 

[Frenzy31]

What would Blues want from the NYR? Instead of just making a proposal i thought it would be better to actually ask Blues fans what they need and would want in return so we dont offer someone they have no need for

Why do the rangers even need him? You are one of the top teams in the league.

Ideally, someone like Stepan. But with your loss at center to a broken leg, I don't see that happening. I think the ask from Boston is DK. So solid center would be my guess.

There are a few Blues fans who wanted Krieder. We need some size. Nash is too much of a cap hit.

 

[Celtic Note]

We need a center. Or a big prospect/draft package with a higher end center prospect.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Not a good fit? A trade with the Rangers would be the best option for Shattenkirk. Much better than any potential deal with Boston.

Boston is a much better trade option for us.

 

[tjung0831]

Boston is a much better trade option for us.

Negative...their prospects are krap. We aren't getting Pastrnak from them and they don't have anything else. Quite a few guys i'd rather have then Spooner.

 

[tjung0831]

If we can't deal with the Rangers, then I prefer a deal for Kadri.

 

[TOGuy14]

If we can't deal with the Rangers, then I prefer a deal for Kadri.

What are you adding to your pending UFA to get Kadri?

 

[bleedblue1223]

Negative...their prospects are krap. We aren't getting Pastrnak from them and they don't have anything else. Quite a few guys i'd rather have then Spooner.

They have better prospects than New York and many of the Rangers that we'd want wouldn't be realistic.

 

[Frenzy31]

Negative...their prospects are krap. We aren't getting Pastrnak from them and they don't have anything else. Quite a few guys i'd rather have then Spooner.

What prospects are you talking about. They have some solid dmen. Offense isn't great, but they have more prospects then NYR. Unless you are targeting their rookies, then I would give the edge to the rangers.

 

[WesMcCauley]

Why do the rangers even need him? You are one of the top teams in the league.

Ideally, someone like Stepan. But with your loss at center to a broken leg, I don't see that happening. I think the ask from Boston is DK. So solid center would be my guess.

There are a few Blues fans who wanted Krieder. We need some size. Nash is too much of a cap hit.

Are you kidding me? We might have the weakest right side defense in the league.... We definetely need a RH defensemen.

You are never getting Stepan(#1B center locked up longterm in his prime) for an unsigned Shattenkirk. Yandle(50% retained)+ahl defensemen+4th rounder got Duclair(good prospect),John Moore(bottom pair d), lottery protected 1st and a 2nd. Yandle also had another year left on his deal.

 

[Frenzy31]

Are you kidding me? We might have the weakest right side defense in the league....
You are never getting Stepan(#1B center locked up longterm in his prime) for an unsigned Shattenkirk. Yandle(50% retained)+ahl defensemen+4th rounder got Duclair(good prospect),John Moore(bottom pair d), lottery protected 1st and a 2nd. Yandle also had another year left on his deal.

Then we keep him for a playoff run and trade his rights. Pretty sure Armstrong is good with that. You asked, I answered. We are not going to trade him for junk that doesn't help the team this year or in the future.

Rangers don't have anything in the system right now. My guess is your rookies are unavailable so no d al to be made.

 

[Liferleafer]

If we can't deal with the Rangers, then I prefer a deal for Kadri.

Not overly interested in dealing newly signed Kadri for an upcoming UFA.

 

[SteenMachine]

Are you kidding me? We might have the weakest right side defense in the league....
You are never getting Stepan(#1B center locked up longterm in his prime) for an unsigned Shattenkirk. Yandle(50% retained)+ahl defensemen+4th rounder got Duclair(good prospect),John Moore(bottom pair d), lottery protected 1st and a 2nd. Yandle also had another year left on his deal.

He answered the question. That's what they want.

 

[stl76]

I would be alright with a deal around Zuccarello and Shattenkirk FWIW.

Blues need at center is well documented. We are pretty set on defense but a top 4 LD could be helpful. Our forward prospect pool is in need of an upgrade. Not sure NYR have the available pieces in any of these areas to make a beneficial deal tho.

 

[bernmeister]

Why do the rangers even need him? You are one of the top teams in the league.

Ideally, someone like Stepan. But with your loss at center to a broken leg, I don't see that happening. I think the ask from Boston is DK. So solid center would be my guess.

There are a few Blues fans who wanted Krieder. We need some size. Nash is too much of a cap hit.

Kreider is certain not to happen
Nash, we can take the right cap dump. Or if you pay we can eat 3m reducing him to 4.8 for 2 years. But we would need asset(s) to make that worthwhile. If you can manage the cap difference internally, I would do 2 yrs Nash full pop for expiring Shattenkirk.

Stepan is available, and his cap is closer.
But you would need to add. Offers?

One important note: in prior years, we could do a sign and trade. This year because of expansion draft, if Shatty is signed when we receive him, we have to protect him. We are protecting McD and have to protect both NMC'ed Staal and Girardi at this point, so we are scewed, since you are not taking Staal/Girardi back, assuming they waive.

Klein could be added for value, but not a core piece b'cause we are still needing to keep the above 3 atm

So the only way we can accept Shattenkirk is reduced value as a rental, and take the chance he will sign with us AFTER expansion draft.

We need a center. Or a big prospect/draft package with a higher end center prospect.

Stepan or bust
not moving Miller/Hayes/Nieves/Zib

Boston is a much better trade option for us.

Pasternak for a rental? McAvoy? esp w/out signed Shatty?
to each his own.

Are you kidding me? We might have the weakest right side defense in the league....
You are never getting Stepan(#1B center locked up longterm in his prime) for an unsigned Shattenkirk. Yandle(50% retained)+ahl defensemen+4th rounder got Duclair(good prospect),John Moore(bottom pair d), lottery protected 1st and a 2nd. Yandle also had another year left on his deal.

Pay no attention to the OP behind the curtain
Stepan IS available, and we'd love to swap one of the vet core for the younger core.
But that does NOT mean he is being given away.

St Lou fans show me something tasty...

Then we keep him for a playoff run and trade his rights. Pretty sure Armstrong is good with that. You asked, I answered. We are not going to trade him for junk that doesn't help the team this year or in the future.

Rangers don't have anything in the system right now. My guess is your rookies are unavailable so no d al to be made.

You're entitled, but those rights are worth virtually nil since he is UFA shortly after.

 

[WesMcCauley]

He answered the question. That's what they want.

ye but thats unrealistic. You dont get a player like Stepan locked up longterm for a rental?

 

[stl76]

NYR fans need to reconcile something that always comes up in Shattenkirk threads: either they shouldn't give up assets and hope to sign Shattenkirk as an UFA, or they should trade for his full value signed long term. You are not going to be able to trade for Shattenkirk based on his value as an UFA on an expiring contract. Blues management has demonstrated they are perfectly content to hold onto him if the alternative is a bad deal. Maybe this will change at the TDL but personally I kind of doubt it.

If it is such a sure thing that Shattenkirk wants to play for the rangers and will sign with them (possibly even with a decent home town discount) then his trade value is equal to him signed long term for a reasonable cap hit, or the Blues will hold onto him. I really don't understand why this seems to be such a difficult concept.

The expansion draft is a speed bump but not a major issue. A handshake deal from both sides is all it would take.

 

[RandallRitchey]

I would do something like Shattenkirk and Jake Walman to get a guy like Stepan. Don't really have the forward prospects to get a deal done.

 

[WesMcCauley]

I would do something like Shattenkirk and Jake Walman to get a guy like Stepan. Don't really have the forward prospects to get a deal done.

Absolute no need for a LH defensemen prospect

 

[bleedblue1223]

Bern, never said we'd get Pasta or McAvoy in a deal.

 

[Note Worthy]

Armstrong is perfectly fine keeping Shattenkirk for a playoff run. We don't HAVE to move him.

Ideally moving Shattenkirk for the right piece would be great but we certainly aren't moving him for a bunch of random junk pieces. We'll just keep him.

 

[bernmeister]

ye but thats unrealistic. You dont get a player like Stepan locked up longterm for a rental?

Depends on who the rental is, likelihood of re-sign, and cap savings, including structural cap of Stepan's 6.5

NYR fans need to reconcile something that always comes up in Shattenkirk threads: either they shouldn't give up assets and hope to sign Shattenkirk as an UFA, or they should trade for his full value signed long term. You are not going to be able to trade for Shattenkirk based on his value as an UFA on an expiring contract. Blues management has demonstrated they are perfectly content to hold onto him if the alternative is a bad deal. Maybe this will change at the TDL but personally I kind of doubt it.

If it is such a sure thing that Shattenkirk wants to play for the rangers and will sign with them (possibly even with a decent home town discount) then his trade value is equal to him signed long term for a reasonable cap hit, or the Blues will hold onto him. I really don't understand why this seems to be such a difficult concept.

The expansion draft is a speed bump but not a major issue. A handshake deal from both sides is all it would take.

the ? is where does he really want to play next year, or does he even want to check out the whole market.

there is a middle ground.
guarantee of reasonable payment for rental instead of
excessive overpay at one end by acquiring team and loss of asset for nothing not worth it if ya don't win the cup

I would do something like Shattenkirk and Jake Walman to get a guy like Stepan. Don't really have the forward prospects to get a deal done.

Absolute no need for a LH defensemen prospect

don't know enough on Wally to comment further now
in theory we are interested to a replacement to Staal if/when we move him

Bern, never said we'd get Pasta or McAvoy in a deal.

didn't mean to suggest you said that
meant to say that that would be top return from Boston, and B's won't pay THAT, so what could you realistically hope for?

Armstrong is perfectly fine keeping Shattenkirk for a playoff run. We don't HAVE to move him.

Ideally moving Shattenkirk for the right piece would be great but we certainly aren't moving him for a bunch of random junk pieces. We'll just keep him.

By all means
but if you fall short on the cup, you are out an asset if he does not return.

If deal is reasonably returning enough, consider taking
or take your chances.

 

[Frenzy31]

Kreider is certain not to happen
Nash, we can take the right cap dump. Or if you pay we can eat 3m reducing him to 4.8 for 2 years. But we would need asset(s) to make that worthwhile. If you can manage the cap difference internally, I would do 2 yrs Nash full pop for expiring Shattenkirk.

Stepan is available, and his cap is closer.
But you would need to add. Offers?

One important note: in prior years, we could do a sign and trade. This year because of expansion draft, if Shatty is signed when we receive him, we have to protect him. We are protecting McD and have to protect both NMC'ed Staal and Girardi at this point, so we are scewed, since you are not taking Staal/Girardi back, assuming they waive.

Klein could be added for value, but not a core piece b'cause we are still needing to keep the above 3 atm

So the only way we can accept Shattenkirk is reduced value as a rental, and take the chance he will sign with us AFTER expansion draft.



Stepan or bust
not moving Miller/Hayes/Nieves/Zib


Pasternak for a rental? McAvoy? esp w/out signed Shatty?
to each his own.



Pay no attention to the OP behind the curtain
Stepan IS available, and we'd love to swap one of the vet core for the younger core.
But that does NOT mean he is being given away.

St Lou fans show me something tasty...




You're entitled, but those rights are worth virtually nil since he is UFA shortly after.

I am not adding anything for Stepan. Dk is a better player and that is who the Blues have asked Boston for. I just don't see a deal.