Confirmed with Link: Shane Prince (+ OTT 7th rounder) traded to New York Islanders for a 3rd round pick.

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Sens Rule

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How is it that this thread is 37 pages long regarding a marginal player...lol

Because many on these boards DESPISE Meknyk, Murray and Cameron. Thus the most minor of moves is the Apocalypse. The most recent moves are Prince for a third and Gomez being signed. Thus both are horrific moves and ruin the team short term and in the future.

I am not the biggest fan of Murray or Cameron's performance this season... But I am realistic. Prince being traded is a nothing move. But if you are angry and blood is coming out of your eyes as a fan... Dealing the 13/14/15th best forward on the team for a third is horrific....
 

Alf Silfversson

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Because many on these boards DESPISE Meknyk, Murray and Cameron. Thus the most minor of moves is the Apocalypse. The most recent moves are Prince for a third and Gomez being signed. Thus both are horrific moves and ruin the team short term and in the future.

I am not the biggest fan of Murray or Cameron's performance this season... But I am realistic. Prince being traded is a nothing move. But if you are angry and blood is coming out of your eyes as a fan... Dealing the 13/14/15th best forward on the team for a third is horrific....

I don't hate Murray or Melnyk, or even Cameron (even though I think he sucks). I like a lot of what Murray has done. Do I like everything? No. But he has drafted pretty well and done some good things to give us a young team with some nice potential and flexibility.

I still don't like the Prince move however. Prince has figured out every league he's played in and gone on to be a very good player. He starts slow (12 points in 63 OHL games; 35 points in 65 AHL games) but after a year or two of steady progression he starts putting up numbers (88 points in 59 games in his OHL draft year; 65 points in 72 AHL games last year). I just wish we would have given him a chance to make that progress. I think in a year or two that he'll start putting up points consistently.

As for those who lamented how bad he was defensively? The goals weren't flying into our net. He was fine to play in a 3rd or 4th line role.
 

Langdon Alger

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Apr 19, 2006
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Because many on these boards DESPISE Meknyk, Murray and Cameron. Thus the most minor of moves is the Apocalypse. The most recent moves are Prince for a third and Gomez being signed. Thus both are horrific moves and ruin the team short term and in the future.

I am not the biggest fan of Murray or Cameron's performance this season... But I am realistic. Prince being traded is a nothing move. But if you are angry and blood is coming out of your eyes as a fan... Dealing the 13/14/15th best forward on the team for a third is horrific....

I'm not horribly upset about the Prince trade, but I don't like that some people are writing him off and saying he will never amount to much. He's still young and I think it's premature to say that. Not to mention that he wasn't really used in the most effective way here.
 

Sens Rule

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I'm not horribly upset about the Prince trade, but I don't like that some people are writing him off and saying he will never amount to much. He's still young and I think it's premature to say that. Not to mention that he wasn't really used in the most effective way here.

I think Puempel will get traded in the offseason as well. Both are likely busts as scoring line players. We will see if either can figure out how to be a role player and have an NHL career.

Just my opinion. Both have had chances in the NHL for awhile and showed little. Especially the ability to play any kind of role beyond being a scorer.

I guess we will see. I think Puempel having to go through waivers next year will see him traded. Or put through waivers without a lot of fear of losing him if he does not have an outstanding camp / start to season.

Again just my opinion.
 

HonestSenator

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Dec 11, 2013
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Let it go. Shane Prince is no longer a Senator.

Good enough to be drafted high.
Not good enough to get regular time with the team in a role he would excel at.
Picked up by a playoff team and contributing.


Next presser from Ownership sometime before the 2016-2017 meltdown.

"The stupidity of trading Shane Prince last year"
 

Langdon Alger

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I think Puempel will get traded in the offseason as well. Both are likely busts as scoring line players. We will see if either can figure out how to be a role player and have an NHL career.

Just my opinion. Both have had chances in the NHL for awhile and showed little. Especially the ability to play any kind of role beyond being a scorer.

I guess we will see. I think Puempel having to go through waivers next year will see him traded. Or put through waivers without a lot of fear of losing him if he does not have an outstanding camp / start to season.

Again just my opinion.

You may be right. I just don't like writing off young players so quickly I guess. I mean, I can't guarantee Prince and Puempel become good players in the league, but I don't want to say they can't when they are still only 22-23 years old. Plus, it's not like they have played a lot of NHL games at this point and they also haven't been given a lot of PP time or even a lot of time in the top 6 or even top 9. Time will tell I guess.
 

Zorf

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You may be right. I just don't like writing off young players so quickly I guess. I mean, I can't guarantee Prince and Puempel become good players in the league, but I don't want to say they can't when they are still only 22-23 years old. Plus, it's not like they have played a lot of NHL games at this point and they also haven't been given a lot of PP time or even a lot of time in the top 6 or even top 9. Time will tell I guess.

There's only a limited number of roster spots on an NHL team. If a guy isn't going to cut it and there's some other young players who just might, then you have to move on. You can't just hold on to players like Prince until they are 25 just to see if they become a regular NHL player.

I don't get how this is lost on so many people.

There are 23 NHL roster spots and a total of 50 pro contracts allowed. That's it. You can't just hold on to players forever
 

Ice-Tray

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There's only a limited number of roster spots on an NHL team. If a guy isn't going to cut it and there's some other young players who just might, then you have to move on. You can't just hold on to players like Prince until they are 25 just to see if they become a regular NHL player.

I don't get how this is lost on so many people.

There are 23 NHL roster spots and a total of 50 pro contracts allowed. That's it. You can't just hold on to players forever

Not to mention losing him on waivers next year for nothing...
 

God Says No

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There's only a limited number of roster spots on an NHL team. If a guy isn't going to cut it and there's some other young players who just might, then you have to move on. You can't just hold on to players like Prince until they are 25 just to see if they become a regular NHL player.

I don't get how this is lost on so many people.

There are 23 NHL roster spots and a total of 50 pro contracts allowed. That's it. You can't just hold on to players forever

I don't know how it's lost on so many people that there are way better candidates to cut on the current roster than Prince.
 

Ice-Tray

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I don't know how it's lost on so many people that there are way better candidates to cut on the current roster than Prince.

No, there aren't. That's why he was the odd man out.

Management, coaching, and some folks feel one way, you and others feel another way. Simple as that really.

You'll be happy with the third round pick as soon as next season I suspect.
 

God Says No

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No, there aren't. That's why he was the odd man out.

Management, coaching, and some folks feel one way, you and others feel another way. Simple as that really.

You'll be happy with the third round pick as soon as next season I suspect.

3rd round pick is meaningless. Very low odds that it will even come close to what Prince is now.

Yip, it's a matter of opinion, but it's not the first time management has made a bad decision. Which is the case here as well.
 

Ice-Tray

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3rd round pick is meaningless. Very low odds that it will even come close to what Prince is now.

Yip, it's a matter of opinion, but it's not the first time management has made a bad decision. Which is the case here as well.

Except that third round pick COULD become a good player, while Prince will not.

You take those odds all day because the last thing we need on this team is Prince, or any other player of his skill set and calibre. These are all trial runs for the kids to show that they can be a GOOD player for the team, Prince brought little that other guys didn't provide better, or with value added.

Except the team has quite a decent history of dumping young players after having a nice long look. None of them have amounted to anything, nor will Prince. You'll be happy with the decision by next season, if you're even still thinking about it at all....
 

Micklebot

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I don't know how it's lost on so many people that there are way better candidates to cut on the current roster than Prince.

Such as?

I mean, maybe Chiasson, who I'm sure we tried to trade but couldn't get any takers. He won't be qualified though (and plays the other wing), so it's a moot point as both are getting cut, it's not one or the other.

After that, Neil I guess, but their roles are polar opposite, and there's a pretty clear disire to have him retire a Sen while offering a bit of leadership off the ice.

Next years roster likely looks like this:

Mac-Turris-Ryan
Hoffman-Zibanejad-Stone
Smith-Pageau-Lazar
Dzingel-Paul-Neil

extra: Puempel

Whose spot does he take when every one of them save Puempel who likely is getting his last chance next year has outperformed him when considering a complete game?

The best case I can see is suggesting we have traded Puempel instead of Prince. Either way, you just end up trading the "extra piece"
 

Xspyrit

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How is it that this thread is 37 pages long regarding a marginal player...lol

1854465.jpg
 
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PoutineSp00nZ

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3rd round pick is meaningless. Very low odds that it will even come close to what Prince is now.

Yip, it's a matter of opinion, but it's not the first time management has made a bad decision. Which is the case here as well.

A Marginal player that couldn't crack the Senators?

At least the third round pick has the potential to turn into something
 

God Says No

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Except that third round pick COULD become a good player, while Prince will not.

Nice. So you know for sure that the 3rd round pick is already better than Prince. That's impressive how you can be so absolute about Prince and the completely unknown that is a future draft pick. I'm assuming you are using tea leaves.

Like I said, there is very little chance that a 3rd round pick will even be close to what Prince is now. That's a fact, go a have a look at the percentage of 3rd (a late one to boot) round picks that actually played a game in the NHL.

Such as?

I mean, maybe Chiasson, who I'm sure we tried to trade but couldn't get any takers. He won't be qualified though (and plays the other wing), so it's a moot point as both are getting cut, it's not one or the other.

After that, Neil I guess, but their roles are polar opposite, and there's a pretty clear disire to have him retire a Sen while offering a bit of leadership off the ice.

Next years roster likely looks like this:

Mac-Turris-Ryan
Hoffman-Zibanejad-Stone
Smith-Pageau-Lazar
Dzingel-Paul-Neil

extra: Puempel

Whose spot does he take when every one of them save Puempel who likely is getting his last chance next year has outperformed him when considering a complete game?

The best case I can see is suggesting we have traded Puempel instead of Prince. Either way, you just end up trading the "extra piece"

I already outlined the names. Chiasson, Puempel, Dzingel, Paul. You can't make a good case that either one of them is currently better than Prince.
 

Ice-Tray

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Nice. So you know for sure that the 3rd round pick is already better than Prince. That's impressive how you can be so absolute about Prince and the completely unknown that is a future draft pick. I'm assuming you are using tea leaves.

It's a little more complicated than that, it's my opinion after watching him play all season. I definitely could be wrong, and the third is likely to not be in the NHL statistically, but I have watched Prince play what I think is a significant sample size and didn't see a future for him on our team, while the third is undecided at this point so it's an easy decision to be happy with.

Like I said, there is very little chance that a 3rd round pick will even be close to what Prince is now. That's a fact, go a have a look at the percentage of 3rd (a late one to boot) round picks that actually played a game in the NHL.



I already outlined the names. Chiasson, Puempel, Dzingel, Paul. You can't make a good case that either one of them is currently better than Prince.

Chiasson is player that needs to be upgraded on, but I'd hope we'd be looking for someone better than Prince, perhaps even a player that plays the same position.

Prince earned a good long look and proved to be nothing special, not terrible, but not a character or role player for the bottom line and not good enough to push a player out of the top 6-9. now it's Puemple's turn to get a shot at LW and prove his worth. Why in the world would we trade him without giving him the same shot we gave Prince? He has also been a good prospect for us in Bingo. I'd rather see if he pans out than lose him for nothing just to keep Prince.

Dzingle has proven to be a better and more impactful fourth line player than Prince. Small sample size for sure, but common sense would dictate that Prince is not an ideal fourth line role player long term while Dzingle is being looked at for that role. Again, Dzingle also doesn't have a spot on the roster, and is being given a look at the end of the season. This is not a Prince or Dzingle situation, it is likely that he won't make the team either.

Paul is a looking quite good on both sides of the puck in his first games. He is also getting a little look in his first pro year. Even you can't seriously think it would be a good idea to trade Paul over Prince. Paul is also a centre, and has the skill set to be a solid fourth line player with a chance to move up the line up.

Prince was waiver eligible, so going into next season if he was beaten out for a spot in training camp, or if we wanted to trade for a top six guy and everyone was bumped down, he would have to clear waivers to be sent down. Not only did BM do him a solid by identifying that he wasn't really good enough to displace a player on our long term roster and trade him in order to give him a chance to forge a career with another team, but he also prevented us from losing him for nothing next year (hella run on sentence).

A third round pick is a nice deal for Prince, one asset out, one in that will be younger and can be added to the bottom of the conveyor belt. As was mentioned earlier, we can't keep everyone, and we have a new batch of draft picks and pro prospects every year, which means that we have to let players go every year. Preferably we get something for them rather than just letting their rights expire or lose them on waivers.
 

Xspyrit

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There's only a limited number of roster spots on an NHL team. If a guy isn't going to cut it and there's some other young players who just might, then you have to move on. You can't just hold on to players like Prince until they are 25 just to see if they become a regular NHL player.

I don't get how this is lost on so many people.

There are 23 NHL roster spots and a total of 50 pro contracts allowed. That's it. You can't just hold on to players forever

So much this.

That's why there is so much confusion in these threads, because when you discuss you assume that people are aware of those simple facts such as number of roster spots and contract limits, and also position where the players involved play, and most importantly determined roles on a team. And if you push it farther, you even have cost controlled factors, waiver status, chemistry, off-ice attitude and work ethic, etc.

Casual fans just have a very small portion of the picture, yet they second guess those who have the whole picture all the time. All we can offer really is a critic in hindsight

What is funny is that I wasn't even a fan of the move at first, but naysayers kinda changed my opinion lol

I don't know how it's lost on so many people that there are way better candidates to cut on the current roster than Prince.

Yet I don't see one...

MacArthur-Hoffman-Smith in the top-9

And was in competition with Paul/Dzingel/Puempel for the last LW spot...

Prince could end up a decent 3rd line player but the thing is the organization decided he was not going to be better than what they already have for that role (or about to have)

Big deal.

I already outlined the names. Chiasson, Puempel, Dzingel, Paul. You can't make a good case that either one of them is currently better than Prince.

Chiasson is a RW who will probably be gone in 1 game. The other 3 are still fighting for future spots. Prince was let go because he wasn't clearly better than any of them and has had more time/games.

You can be a Prince's fan and it's ok. But that doesn't change the fact that he was seen as expendable.
 
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God Says No

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Chiasson is player that needs to be upgraded on, but I'd hope we'd be looking for someone better than Prince, perhaps even a player that plays the same position.

Prince does play RW. He's played it in the AHL for the most part. I think Prince is already better than Chiasson and has potential to be a solid 3rd liner. That's way better than what Chiasson is now.

Prince earned a good long look and proved to be nothing special, not terrible, but not a character or role player for the bottom line and not good enough to push a player out of the top 6-9. now it's Puemple's turn to get a shot at LW and prove his worth. Why in the world would we trade him without giving him the same shot we gave Prince? He has also been a good prospect for us in Bingo. I'd rather see if he pans out than lose him for nothing just to keep Prince.

A good long look? Really? I don't think I'd qualify his 42 games as a a good long look. Chiasson had a good long look.

Again, it's your opinion that he's nothing special. But there are many people out there (including myself) that did see glimpses of what he could potentially become. If I were management I'd give him more than 42 games. Now, before you start crying about his 3 years in the AHL, I consider that a different beast. Prince is a rookie, that should have been received a longer look than 42 games in the NHL. If after a longer look he still doesn't look like an NHL then I'd have no issue with him being dealt/released/waived. The third round pick is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Dzingle has proven to be a better and more impactful fourth line player than Prince. Small sample size for sure, but common sense would dictate that Prince is not an ideal fourth line role player long term while Dzingle is being looked at for that role. Again, Dzingle also doesn't have a spot on the roster, and is being given a look at the end of the season. This is not a Prince or Dzingle situation, it is likely that he won't make the team either.

Debatable whether Dzingel has been more impactful. I don't see Dzingel as a fourth liner either, and his deployment by the team seems to corroborate my thinking as well. He's played on the 4th line, but more so in the top 6/9. What has Dzingel done that is so much more impressive than Prince? Scoring? Nope. Defensively? Nope.

Paul is a looking quite good on both sides of the puck in his first games. He is also getting a little look in his first pro year. Even you can't seriously think it would be a good idea to trade Paul over Prince. Paul is also a centre, and has the skill set to be a solid fourth line player with a chance to move up the line up.

I'm not suggesting we trade Paul. I'm suggesting Prince should be played over Paul THIS year. To see what we got in Prince.

Prince was waiver eligible, so going into next season if he was beaten out for a spot in training camp, or if we wanted to trade for a top six guy and everyone was bumped down, he would have to clear waivers to be sent down. Not only did BM do him a solid by identifying that he wasn't really good enough to displace a player on our long term roster and trade him in order to give him a chance to forge a career with another team, but he also prevented us from losing him for nothing next year (hella run on sentence).

That's cool that BM did him a solid. BM is a nice guy. The problem is that being a nice guy interferes with building a winning team. BM should be concerned more with building a talented team over being a nice guy. Of course you can't be ruthless, but being nice shouldn't be the reason you get rid of a talent.

As for next season, even your tea leaves probably can't predict what's going to happen. So your argument is moot. There is no way we can predict how the team will look, even if BM acquires a top 6 player. It could be at the expense of another player (looking at Hoffman here).


A third round pick is a nice deal for Prince, one asset out, one in that will be younger and can be added to the bottom of the conveyor belt. As was mentioned earlier, we can't keep everyone, and we have a new batch of draft picks and pro prospects every year, which means that we have to let players go every year. Preferably we get something for them rather than just letting their rights expire or lose them on waivers.

As mentioned already, a 3rd round pick is pretty much worthless. Even with our draft record. It's a nice thought that we want to keep the conveyor belt moving. If that's true, then why not jettison someone else and keep the more talented player?

We don't have to lose him to waivers, there are always options. The timing of this trade was very odd.

Yet I don't see one...

MacArthur-Hoffman-Smith in the top-9

And was in competition with Paul/Dzingel/Puempel for the last LW spot...

Prince could end up a decent 3rd line player but the thing is the organization decided he was not going to be better than what they already have for that role (or about to have)

Big deal.



Chiasson is a RW who will probably be gone in 1 game. The other 3 are still fighting for future spots. Prince was let go because he wasn't clearly better than any of them and has had more time/games.

You can be a Prince's fan and it's ok. But that doesn't change the fact that he was seen as expendable.

The bold is your opinion, which is fair. But I disagree with it. I believe he is better than the rest, by not much, but still better. Eye test and stats back that up.

BTW, Prince can play RW as well. That's where he spent most of his AHL career. So Chiasson for sure is in the conversation.
 
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bert

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I don't hate Murray or Melnyk, or even Cameron (even though I think he sucks). I like a lot of what Murray has done. Do I like everything? No. But he has drafted pretty well and done some good things to give us a young team with some nice potential and flexibility.

I still don't like the Prince move however. Prince has figured out every league he's played in and gone on to be a very good player. He starts slow (12 points in 63 OHL games; 35 points in 65 AHL games) but after a year or two of steady progression he starts putting up numbers (88 points in 59 games in his OHL draft year; 65 points in 72 AHL games last year). I just wish we would have given him a chance to make that progress. I think in a year or two that he'll start putting up points consistently.

As for those who lamented how bad he was defensively? The goals weren't flying into our net. He was fine to play in a 3rd or 4th line role.

My feelings exactly, he didnt get a fair shake with Cameron either its a hard league to play in as a rookie when every mistake is magnified and you get stapled to the bench.

I don't know how it's lost on so many people that there are way better candidates to cut on the current roster than Prince.

I find it hard to understand how very few people seem to understand this as well. I mean people are watching Alex Chiasson play hockey for the sens arent they?
 
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