Shanahan's biggest gaffe shows he's out of touch: revisiting the "Discounts" quote

[Tufted Titmouse]

The biggest strategic error, in my opinion, was Kyle doubling down on the core and telling them they won't be traded under any circumstances.

He's put a pair of self inflicted handcuffs on himself.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

It's Not Shanny's quote that did us in, it was the idea of resigning an extension and being coached by Babcock for the entirety of it.

Big factor for Marner.

Still Dubas' fault - he should have bridged them

 

[4thline]

Still Dubas' fault - he should have bridged them

Yes. One thing that would definitely make this situation better is having to negotiate with Matthews this summer, 1 year from UFA with arb rights.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Yes. One thing that would definitely make this situation better is having to negotiate with Matthews this summer, 1 year from UFA with arb rights.

I get what you are saying, but it's hard to imagine this same team but with bridge deals over the last 3 years.

What kind of roster do we have if we add 4-6m of space to 2020-2022?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

One thing that would definitely make this situation better is having to negotiate with Matthews

You probably don't bridge Matthews.

 

[Antropovsky]

I guess let's ignore the 10% tax difference between Colorado and Toronto? The salary cap is not the same for each team.

Should we also ignore that Marner has 2 million in endorsements because of playing for Toronto?....

According to Forbes, Ovechkin is set to make $5 million in endorsements during the 2019-20 season. That haul leads all NHLers, with Crosby and Connor McDavid a peg below at $4.5 million. Other top earners include Maple Leafs forwards Auston Matthews ($2.3M), Mitch Marner ($2M), and John Tavares ($1.7M). (Though Forbes' numbers are technically unofficial, industry insiders consider them to be fair estimates.)


In most cases, compensation is highly dependent on the team's market. Places such as Toronto, Boston, Vancouver, Philadelphia, and Montreal usually make up the top tier, whereas Carolina, Florida, San Jose, Tampa Bay, and Arizona tend to be considered bottom-tier markets. So, if a Canucks player is traded to the Panthers in the middle of an endorsement deal, he ultimately earns less; the post-trade checks would be only 50% or 75% of what he could have earned in Vancouver. Companies are all about return on investment, and they've determined that return is different in traditional and nontraditional hockey markets.

 

[Stephen]

The biggest strategic error, in my opinion, was Kyle doubling down on the core and telling them they won't be traded under any circumstances.

He's put a pair of self inflicted handcuffs on himself.

I feel like the organization lacks killer instinct from the top down. From the outside it looks like a very positive work culture, everyone loves one another and they’ve accomplished a lot of great things together as a team and individuals. Objectively it seems like a great organization.

But it also lacks that in-house friction and turmoil and consequences you see with championship teams that grind upwards. Just think about how Scotty Bowman always used to press buttons in Montreal and Detroit and the animosity in house. There’s also so much job security: these core guys are so locked in. There just doesn’t seem to be that negative driving force that makes the Leafs want to hate-dominate-win in that old school toxic way. They just don’t have that inner drive to want to crush opponents.

 

[Blaylock38]

Big factor for Marner.

Still Dubas' fault - he should have bridged them

If it only it were that simple, Not Dubas Fault at all.

 

[Boxscore]

I feel like the organization lacks killer instinct from the top down. From the outside it looks like a very positive work culture, everyone loves one another and they’ve accomplished a lot of great things together as a team and individuals. Objectively it seems like a great organization.

But it also lacks that in-house friction and turmoil and consequences you see with championship teams that grind upwards. Just think about how Scotty Bowman always used to press buttons in Montreal and Detroit and the animosity in house. There’s also so much job security: these core guys are so locked in. There just doesn’t seem to be that negative driving force that makes the Leafs want to hate-dominate-win in that old school toxic way. They just don’t have that inner drive to want to crush opponents.

Agreed.

Last offseason, much of the hockey community was focused on these two things:

1. Nate MacKinnon giving his teammates crap about poor dieting and the importance of eliminating sugar and garbage. He was mocked.

2. The Maple Leafs laxed their team dress code so the players could wear anything they want. They were celebrated.

This is part of what's wrong with the game in general today, and also puts a spotlight on the difference in priorities -- and as you pointed out, "killer instinct".

That said, the Leafs had a nice season and battled Tampa to the end. They deserve credit for that. But the clock is more than ticking on their window as Matthews looms closer to free agency.

 

[ToneDog]

Agreed.

Last offseason, much of the hockey community was focused on these two things:

1. Nate MacKinnon giving his teammates crap about poor dieting and the importance of eliminating sugar and garbage. He was mocked.

2. The Maple Leafs laxed their team dress code so the players could wear anything they want. They were celebrated.

This is part of what's wrong with the game in general today, and also puts a spotlight on the difference in priorities -- and as you pointed out, "killer instinct".

That said, the Leafs had a nice season and battled Tampa to the end. They deserve credit for that. But the clock is more than ticking on their window as Matthews looms closer to free agency.

Interesting, you should listen to what Kyper had to say this morning about Spezza and hitting the gym. Once he got it, it was too late and his days of chasing a cup are now over. Hopefully he will teach our youngsters what he learned.

 

[Boxscore]

Interesting, you should listen to what Kyper had to say this morning about Spezza and hitting the gym. Once he got it, it was too late and his days of chasing a cup are now over. Hopefully he will teach our youngsters what he learned.

No doubt. I believe this 100%.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Agreed.

Last offseason, much of the hockey community was focused on these two things:

1. Nate MacKinnon giving his teammates crap about poor dieting and the importance of eliminating sugar and garbage. He was mocked.

2. The Maple Leafs laxed their team dress code so the players could wear anything they want. They were celebrated.

This is part of what's wrong with the game in general today, and also puts a spotlight on the difference in priorities -- and as you pointed out, "killer instinct".

That said, the Leafs had a nice season and battled Tampa to the end. They deserve credit for that. But the clock is more than ticking on their window as Matthews looms closer to free agency.

Dubas has given them everything they want from.their pay to wearing a letter, staying together in certain situations (16 34)to,lax dress code and propping them up and defending at every opportunity. Until this last playoff series they didn't even play hard for him.
Loyalty gone way overboard

 

[Boxscore]

Dubas has given them everything they want from.their pay to wearing a letter, staying together in certain situations (16 34)to,lax dress code and propping them up and defending at every opportunity. Until this last playoff series they didn't even play hard for him.
Loyalty gone way overboard

Very accurate take.

 

[Westlander]

Agreed.

Last offseason, much of the hockey community was focused on these two things:

1. Nate MacKinnon giving his teammates crap about poor dieting and the importance of eliminating sugar and garbage. He was mocked.

2. The Maple Leafs laxed their team dress code so the players could wear anything they want. They were celebrated.

This is part of what's wrong with the game in general today, and also puts a spotlight on the difference in priorities -- and as you pointed out, "killer instinct".

That said, the Leafs had a nice season and battled Tampa to the end. They deserve credit for that. But the clock is more than ticking on their window as Matthews looms closer to free agency.

I don’t know, those two examples seem like apples and oranges to me. One (diet) is a key contributor to performance, the other (dress code) is arguably just conservative posturing.
Don’t forget, the Pat Quinn teams also had a country club reputation, but I’d say they had killer instinct, even if they were never quite good enough to get over the hump.

 

[Boxscore]

I don’t know, those two examples seem like apples and oranges to me. One (diet) is a key contributor to performance, the other (dress code) is arguably just conservative posturing.
Don’t forget, the Pat Quinn teams also had a country club reputation, but I’d say they had killer instinct, even if they were never quite good enough to get over the hump.

Agreed.

I guess my point was more about what each team focused on. To a man, the Avs were so upset with losing, their best player was focused on doing everything it takes to get to the next level. The Leafs, they were focused on dress code.

Just seems to me that the Leafs organization loves to coddle, while the Avs could be more focused on taking care of business.

 

[justashadowof]

I don’t know, those two examples seem like apples and oranges to me. One (diet) is a key contributor to performance, the other (dress code) is arguably just conservative posturing.
Don’t forget, the Pat Quinn teams also had a country club reputation, but I’d say they had killer instinct, even if they were never quite good enough to get over the hump.

Quinn's teams ran on Sudafed and nicotine.

 

[Gabriel426]

I don’t know, those two examples seem like apples and oranges to me. One (diet) is a key contributor to performance, the other (dress code) is arguably just conservative posturing.
Don’t forget, the Pat Quinn teams also had a country club reputation, but I’d say they had killer instinct, even if they were never quite good enough to get over the hump.

To me, the dress code is more the mentality. Wearing suits is not about looking good, it is about being professional and being at work. Thats the mentality these players should have, they are not attending a party or a movie opening, they are going to work and the results is the CUP.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Big factor for Marner.

Still Dubas' fault - he should have bridged them

So many idiots keep pointing to Tkachuk and say that bridging is stupid because "Look at his qualifying offer now" ....well are we smarter because we paid full price for the last 3yrs instead of a discount? How does that make any sense? You bridge them until they have proven their worth while leaving them an RFA at the end of the deal so you're not a hostage like we are with AM and his NMC.

We will know when AM is up for renewal whether or not he really takes winning seriously. If he wants to be in McDavid territory for $$....he doesn't care about winning. Having so many guys that are basically replacement level play for this team should have shown him that he can't have all the money AND field a good team. Same goes for MM.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I feel like the organization lacks killer instinct from the top down. From the outside it looks like a very positive work culture, everyone loves one another and they’ve accomplished a lot of great things together as a team and individuals. Objectively it seems like a great organization.

But it also lacks that in-house friction and turmoil and consequences you see with championship teams that grind upwards. Just think about how Scotty Bowman always used to press buttons in Montreal and Detroit and the animosity in house. There’s also so much job security: these core guys are so locked in. There just doesn’t seem to be that negative driving force that makes the Leafs want to hate-dominate-win in that old school toxic way. They just don’t have that inner drive to want to crush opponents.

Craig Button said it best. He said the Leafs play like their management "nicely"....They keep questioning why they don't have killer instinct when the management team exudes "Niceness and fairness"....they(MLSE) are the pot calling the kettle black IMO

 

[keonsbitterness]

Craig Button said it best.

That has never happened.

 

[Stephen]

That has never happened.

I’m pretty sure he went off on that rant on TSN radio.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I’m pretty sure he went off on that rant on TSN radio.

I dispute that he ever said anything best.

 

[Leafblooded]

Quinn's teams ran on Sudafed and nicotine.

Don't we all?

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

That has never happened.

I was listening to Kyper and Bourne and yes it did happen....and it was very accurate.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I was listening to Kyper and Bourne and yes it did happen....and it was very accurate.

You missed the joke.