Seravalli: Seravalli- Canucks had multiple major offers for JT Miller in January- "Very good chance it happens this summer instead"

[Tufted Titmouse]

What would the value be for NJD's 2nd oa pick. Lets say they are seriously looking at trading it and want a skilled sandpaper guy like Miller to lead the young skilled core.

Miller for 2nd OA pick as the basis.

Who has to add and what are those additions.

Vancouver has to add, and I won't even bother saying what I think they would need to add because it will cause a whole new round of arguments. It would hurt, though.

 

[Bettman Returnz]

I don't think anyone is falling over themselves for JT Miller.

Personally, I'm not sold on him, but what the hell does that matter? I'm not a hockey executive just another stupid fan on another stupid fanboard.

That said, I don't see too many other stupid fans of other teams offering the Crown jewels for this guy.

I read one Canucks fan saying they don't want to sign him long term because he's pushing 30 and at the brink of declining. Logically, the same reasoning could stick to the player and apply to every other team as well. He's reached his peak and is looking at the downside of his career.

I'm rather glad the Leafs are very unlikely to deal for him.

I've seen the delusional list of all the teams that are champing at the bit to acquire him. So far, fans from Minnesota say no thanks. Toronto? No thanks from me FWIW, which is nothing. Colorado interested but not at any price.

Any other interest?

I didn't think so.

For the record there’s not many players that fans are actually willing to over pay or put a legitimately solid deal on the table for. So safe to say that fans can have their opinion but likely most prefer to not fork over top picks/ prospects.

Either way, Miller is overrated by Canuck fans and underrated by most other fan bases. A deal will likely be something in the middle. I do think it will be more appealing then the reported rangers one earlier this year. Some team will be desperate enough this offseason to make a big splash/ save their a$$.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I have you confused with someone that can't grasp the gap in value of Nylander and Miller.

The gap. It's close, just like I thought. Mostly a matter of circumstance for the team in question. Definitely not an insult to compare the two.

 

[NeoCanuck]

Nylander is really good.
Miller is really good.

Vancouver doesn't need the type of good that Nylander is as much as other crippling priorities on the roster.
Toronto could use absolutely Miller, but because Miller is at a platinum Coachella supreme VIP level price range, Toronto will scoff at the asking price (as they most likely should) because Vancouver needs to ask for that price to off-set a large deficiency of assets in the organization from the previous regime.

TL;DR: Toronto, don't pay the price we're asking. It's totally fine. Go get another player like Miller for far less than what we're asking. You probably should.

Can we stop edge-lording the two franchises now?

 

[Nylanderthal]

Nylander is really good.
Miller is really good.

Vancouver doesn't need the type of good that Nylander is as much as other crippling priorities on the roster.
Toronto could use absolutely Miller, but because Miller is at a platinum Coachella supreme VIP level price range, Toronto will scoff at the asking price (as they most likely should) because Vancouver needs to ask for that price to off-set a large deficiency of assets in the organization from the previous regime.

TL;DR: Toronto, don't pay the price we're asking. It's totally fine. Go get another player like Miller for far less than what we're asking. You probably should.

Can we stop edge-lording the two franchises now?

It’s not other teams problems you had Paul bearers doppelgänger setting fire to the organizations asset pool.
This summer JT will go for what other teams are willing to offer, which by reading the rangers tdl offer & the constant complaining around here by canucks fans will be something that will result in a lot more complaining from the same 7-10 canucks fans.
Or he’ll be a wasted asset by a team that thinks they’re closer than they are, and by the time the TDL goes around you’re lucky to get a first and a half busted prospect from the 2016-2019 draft from a contender.
Hopefully they’ll hold onto him as an own rental, putter around the edges of the roster, and finish 2pts outside wc2.

 

[Qwijibo]

What would the value be for NJD's 2nd oa pick. Lets say they are seriously looking at trading it and want a skilled sandpaper guy like Miller to lead the young skilled core.

Miller for 2nd OA pick as the basis.

Who has to add and what are those additions.

Teams don’t trade top 5 picks. Especially for a 29 year old pending UFA. If Miller was 4 years younger and a pending RFA. Then sure.

 

[Boondock]

I think this is fair. Two years of Nylander for one year of Miller. Van gets skill and TO gets sandpaper (with skill).
As a Van fan I'd rather get Marner, but that ain't happening.

So Vancouver trades the less expensive, more productive, more versatile player for a more expensive winger - the one position they already have some depth? This would be a piss poor move that would further handycap the Canucks chances to improve their defense which was clearly a weak spot. I don't dislike Nylander, but this seems like a two steps back type move.

 

[sirwilliam]

The gap. It's close, just like I thought. Mostly a matter of circumstance for the team in question. Definitely not an insult to compare the two.

6 pages of Leafs fans talking Nylander despite the fact that he's not what the Canucks are looking for, at all.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Lol. Yup, the term used to describe a player with one year of team control left is the problem with your ask.

I mean it’s not accurate and you’re using it to justify a lesser offer so yes lol. But perhaps more emojis will help your argument??

6 pages of Leafs fans talking Nylander despite the fact that he's not what the Canucks are looking for, at all.

It’s really just one obnoxious Leafs fan. But at least Nylander is a better offer than the Kerfoot + offers they kept trying to force down our throats at the tdl.

 

[Snowman]

I mean it’s not accurate and you’re using it to justify a lesser offer so yes lol. But perhaps more emojis will help your argument??


It’s really just one obnoxious Leafs fan. But at least Nylander is a better offer than the Kerfoot + offers they kept trying to force down our throats at the tdl.

Okay, since semantics matter so such to you. Good luck trying to get that much for a player with one year of team control left.

Somehow, it doesn't seem like that strengthened your flimsy argument.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Why do so many people keep referring to Miller as a “rental”? Since when are players traded in the offseason with a year left on their contract equated to that of an actual “rental” player at the deadline? For many teams, acquiring Miller at the draft could mean the difference between that team being in the playoff mix come the deadline or being on the outside looking in. He basically dragged a terrible first half team into respectability this season.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Okay, since semantics matter so such to you. Good luck trying to get that much for a player with one year of team control left.

Somehow, it doesn't seem like that strengthened your flimsy argument.

It's not semantics it's being accurate and having basic reading comprehension. 1) A full year is not really a rental and 2) This is what Servalli stated:

Teams will move bodies on their own roster for cap purposes if it means getting in on the Miller sweepstakes this summer

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Seems like everytime someone offers something up, Canuck fans here say "he's a good piece in a trade for Garland".

Instead of calling our offers "borderline insulting", can we see what an acceptable, realistic package looks like from your POV?

I'll bite. From Toronto, I'd want something along the following

1st
Liljegren/Sandin
Good prospect (not one of your top ones)

And we likely take back Holl or something to make the cap work.

Now do I think Toronto should do this? Probably not. The Leafs' defense isn't the best already and both Sandin and Liljegren will likely be a big part of changing that once they establish themselves better. Unfortunately, Toronto's other pieces aren't what we'd be after. I like Robinson and Knies but I don't think either is big enough to build a deal for Miller around.

 

[604]

Miller at 50%...only 1st line centre available for a $2.625m cap hit.

I think a cap strapped team that wants to make a big push steps up.

PIT for 2022 + 2023 1st + Poulin
WAS for 2022 + 2023 1st + McMichael
COL for 2022 + 2023 1st + Byram

 

[Qwijibo]

Miller at 50%...only 1st line centre available for a $2.625m cap hit.

I think a cap strapped team that wants to make a big push steps up.

PIT for 2022 + 2023 1st + Poulin
WAS for 2022 + 2023 1st + McMichael
COL for 2022 + 2023 1st + Byram

You are going to be in for a huge wake up call if you think a 29 year old rental is returning 2 1sts and a top prospect .

 

[604]

You are going to be in for a huge wake up call if you think a 29 year old rental is returning 2 1sts and a top prospect .

We'll see.

It's not very often a player like Miller can be had with such a low cap hit - his cap hit at 50% is what makes him a unicorn.

 

[Qwijibo]

We'll see.

It's not very often a player like Miller can be had with such a low cap hit - his cap hit at 50% is what makes him a unicorn.

Miller at his cap hit will garner a good return. But let’s not pretend that this season was the norm for him.
10 seasons in the league abs this is the first time he’s ever hit 30 goals and the second time he’s paced at a ppg or better. Take those two outlier seasons out and he’s good, not great.

Sometimes things just click for a player. Look at Max Domi. 4 years ago he had a 28 goal /72 point season in Montreal. Take that out and he’s a 9 goal /40 point player.

Expecting a superstar return for a rental Miller just doesn’t seem reasonable. I’d expect to see closer to the return of what Montreal got for Pacioretty. He was 29 when he was traded and had 1 year left on a contract that had a cap hit of $4.5m. He didn’t put up 98 points but he was generally considered one of the best goal scorers in the league. Consistently putting up 35-40 goals. He brought Vegas’s 3rd best (at the time) prospect in Suzuki, a second, and a solid NHLer that didn’t fit in Vegas abs was considered a cap dump (Tatar)

If a cap strapped team was going to offer 2 1sts and a top prospect they would have done it at the trade deadline when they would have gotten 2 playoff runs out of Miller. That didn’t happen.

 

[Ottobot]

Rather see a cap dump attached to Miller for a lesser return. Make enough room so they can take an expiring contract with added sweeteners at the next trade deadline.

 

[Siludin]

Miller at his cap hit will garner a good return. But let’s not pretend that this season was the norm for him.
10 seasons in the league abs this is the first time he’s ever hit 30 goals and the second time he’s paced at a ppg or better. Take those two outlier seasons out and he’s good, not great.

Sometimes things just click for a player. Look at Max Domi. 4 years ago he had a 28 goal /72 point season in Montreal. Take that out and he’s a 9 goal /40 point player.

Expecting a superstar return for a rental Miller just doesn’t seem reasonable. I’d expect to see closer to the return of what Montreal got for Pacioretty. He was 29 when he was traded and had 1 year left on a contract that had a cap hit of $4.5m. He didn’t put up 98 points but he was generally considered one of the best goal scorers in the league. Consistently putting up 35-40 goals. He brought Vegas’s 3rd best (at the time) prospect in Suzuki, a second, and a solid NHLer that didn’t fit in Vegas abs was considered a cap dump (Tatar)

If a cap strapped team was going to offer 2 1sts and a top prospect they would have done it at the trade deadline when they would have gotten 2 playoff runs out of Miller. That didn’t happen.

This was a lot of text to tell me you don't know what you're talking about

 

[Qwijibo]

This was a lot of text to tell me you don't know what you're talking about

If you say so.

 

[canadianmagpie]

Miller at his cap hit will garner a good return. But let’s not pretend that this season was the norm for him.
10 seasons in the league abs this is the first time he’s ever hit 30 goals and the second time he’s paced at a ppg or better. Take those two outlier seasons out and he’s good, not great.

Sometimes things just click for a player. Look at Max Domi. 4 years ago he had a 28 goal /72 point season in Montreal. Take that out and he’s a 9 goal /40 point player.

Expecting a superstar return for a rental Miller just doesn’t seem reasonable. I’d expect to see closer to the return of what Montreal got for Pacioretty. He was 29 when he was traded and had 1 year left on a contract that had a cap hit of $4.5m. He didn’t put up 98 points but he was generally considered one of the best goal scorers in the league. Consistently putting up 35-40 goals. He brought Vegas’s 3rd best (at the time) prospect in Suzuki, a second, and a solid NHLer that didn’t fit in Vegas abs was considered a cap dump (Tatar)

If a cap strapped team was going to offer 2 1sts and a top prospect they would have done it at the trade deadline when they would have gotten 2 playoff runs out of Miller. That didn’t happen.

In the past three seasons, he's scored 217 points in just over 200 games. So you want to remove the past three seasons when you talk about him and focus on his first seasons in the NHL? That makes no sense whatsoever. He's shown to be a consistent PPG scorer while providing two-way play. If it was just one season, then you might have a point but he's done it consistently for three.

I think a top prospect and a 1st round pick is certainly within the realm of possibility, perhaps more if the Canucks retain.

 

[Qwijibo]

In the past three seasons, he's scored 217 points in just over 200 games. So you want to remove the past three seasons when you talk about him and focus on his first seasons in the NHL? That makes no sense whatsoever. He's shown to be a consistent PPG scorer while providing two-way play. If it was just one season, then you might have a point but he's done it consistently for three.

I think a top prospect and a 1st round pick is certainly within the realm of possibility, perhaps more if the Canucks retain.

I don’t think that’s out of the question either. But 2 1sts and a top prospect isn’t reasonable.

 

[Peter Griffin]

This was a lot of text to tell me you don't know what you're talking about

It’s posts like those that don’t take into account that Miller was buried on a 3rd line in Tampa or that ever since coming to Vancouver and being placed in a top line role that he’s paced at well over PPG while playing in all situations, that really make me shake my head.

 

[Hockey Gamer]

I don’t think that’s out of the question either. But 2 1sts and a top prospect isn’t reasonable.

a lot hinges on what a "top prospect" is. there's likely to be a wide spectrum on these boards as to what that constitutes. some people would say player A is a top prospect while others would laugh trollishly and think that the said person is crazy.

I agree with you though, that historically, it's exceedingly rare that any team who trades for a one year rental player on an expiring contract, includes the top prospect in their system.

I think Vancouver is likely to get the best deal from a team that wants to trade for Miller with an extended contract in mind. Those potential suitors would pay more than the teams that only want one run out of him and then let him walk.

 

[Cogburn]

The gap. It's close, just like I thought. Mostly a matter of circumstance for the team in question. Definitely not an insult to compare the two.

A poll involving the largest fanbase on this board? Seems unbiased and in good faith.