Confirmed with Link: Sens sign Johnny Oduya to a 1 year deal

[BondraTime]

do you think that the Canucks ownership wants to pay them for most of the season or save 14 million and gets maybe less in return?

You mean save ~3 million?

 

[Sensinitis]

So you would've traded basically two Alfredsson's(In his last year) for Dzingel and a 2nd??

Dream on.

The Sedins right now are at a level below what you are describing.

 

[Micklebot]

Why on earth do you think they'd return that much? We're not trading for the Sedins when they were superstars. We're trading for two guys who combined for 96 points in 164 games (48P average over 82GP). That was the production they put up as 36YR olds. This will be their 37YR old season, so theoretically they should get worse, not better.

Plus Benning would have little to no leverage, given that the Sedins have NMCs and can basically pick and choose where they get to go. Sens are one of the only teams that can afford them, have proven to be able to go far in the playoffs, and have friends and former teammates on the team.

I'd guess they'd each return around a 2nd each all things considered, which would translate to something like Dzingel/Perron/Paul + 2019 2nd, or our 2018 1st.

It all depends on the market. As soon as there is more than one serious bidder, the price jumps dramatically. If the price is too low, they just keep them and re-sign them aso legacy vets.

A single sending quality deadline acquisition would easily get a late 1st plus. My starting point is an estimate of full value, the market at the time dictates if we can offer less, but I suspect your offer of 2 seconds would result in a polite no thanks, or getting beat out by another team. Just an opinion, I hope you are right and I am wrong for obvious reasons.

 

[BondraTime]

The Sedins right now are at a level below what you are describing.

0.55 ppg for Alfredson his last season in Ottawa
0.53 ppg for D. Sedin
0.62 ppg for H.Sedin

 

[Micklebot]

You mean save ~3 million?

-I think he is suggesting trading the now for less instead of getting more at the deadline, but nobody can fit both now so they'd be untradable

 

[BondraTime]

-I think he is suggesting trading the now for less instead of getting more at the deadline, but nobody can fit both now so they'd be untradable

Yeah, I assumed he must have realised that the Sens can't add 14 million in cap and real dollars right now

 

[Sensinitis]

0.55 ppg for Alfredson his last season in Ottawa
0.53 ppg for D. Sedin
0.62 ppg for H.Sedin

That's fine... eye test suggests otherwise. Also Alfie's PPG his last season in Detroit was higher.

They've lost a lot of speed (weren't very quick to begin with). Relying solely on IQ and passing/shooting now. That's fine because they have those things in spades, but lesser players now for sure. Probably above average to average 2nd liners at this point.

 

[Shruggs Peterson]

I don't understand why the Sedins are even being talking about here.

The difference between them waiving their NMC's to come to Ottawa was not Johnny Oduya on a bargain contract...

And although I like the move, the Sens still need to:

(A) Make a move with one of their D in a package for meaningful help up front (not another depth guy)

or

(B) Play above what the roster looks like on paper to get help during the season.

 

[jbeck5]

Is this Jason Smith/Luke Richardson 2.0 that come here on a 35+ year old contract, are slow AF, and proceed to play a bunch despite being the worst d because they have experience and a recognizable last name?

 

[2CHAINZ]

Is this Jason Smith/Luke Richardson 2.0 that come here on a 35+ year old contract, are slow AF, and proceed to play a bunch despite being the worst d because they have experience and a recognizable last name?

yes but Swedish.

 

[Micklebot]

Is this Jason Smith/Luke Richardson 2.0 that come here on a 35+ year old contract, are slow AF, and proceed to play a bunch despite being the worst d because they have experience and a recognizable last name?

Smith was 34 when he joined the sens I think...

 

[Hale The Villain]

So you would've traded basically two Alfredsson's(In his last year) for Dzingel and a 2nd??

Dream on.

If we were about to finish at the bottom of the league and the two Alfies were UFAs at the end of the year who will either retire at the end of the season or re-sign with the Sens, hell yeah I would.

The team would get short-term benefit from not having two good players in the lineup to hurt the late-season tanking efforts, plus a long-term benefit from having Dzingel+2nd in the organization.

It's a big win for Vancouver long-term regardless of what they get for the Sedins. A young 30+ point forward and a 2nd is an amazing return to lend two 37YR olds to a non-rival Canadian team for a couple months to let them go for a cup one last time.

Ok well the Sens could ice an all Swedish team, wear Sweden's national jerseys and their goal song could be the Swedish national anthem but I don't think it would matter because the Sedins aren't coming to Ottawa. They've stated time and time again Vancouver is the only place they want to play.

That Kesler deal great received pretty good praise around Vancouver considering he only gave them Anaheim as an option. A first, a top 9 forward and a top 6 Dman was not a disappointing return with a 1 team trade list.

Dzingel and a 2nd(in 2019?) is not even close to what they would consider moving their franchise players for.

The Sedins love Vancouver and probably wouldn't want to leave there for a full season, but we're talking about spending 2-3 months in another city on another team trying to win a cup.

If Karlsson, Burrows, Oduya and even Claesson work to convince them behind the scenes to join the Sens, just like Zetterberg and company did with Alfie in 2014, I could definitely see them accepting a trade to go try to win a cup with their friends before they retire.

And the Kesler return was universally mocked when it happened.

 

[DJB]

Worst case we trade him for a 2nd at the deadline if we are out of the hunt.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

That's fine... eye test suggests otherwise. Also Alfie's PPG his last season in Detroit was higher.

They've lost a lot of speed (weren't very quick to begin with). Relying solely on IQ and passing/shooting now. That's fine because they have those things in spades, but lesser players now for sure. Probably above average to average 2nd liners at this point.

^This.

It isn't 2011.


And people are forgetting the biggest intangible here....the Sens were arguably the closest team, the band of brothers, in the league. That is a huge reason why Erik was able to shine on one leg, why Mac came back, why every single guy played their hearts out. Adding mercenaries (even end-of-the-line ones like the Sedins) at the deadline destroys all of that. The team had magic last year, and now you're willing to throw that away before even knowing what the playoff matchups and circumstance (if we make it) will be.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Another thing to mention is that the Canucks will probably be horrible this year.

At the 2018 deadline the Sedins will have spent the better part of the last 5 years on terrible hockey teams. You have to think getting a chance at winning a cup alongside your friends and former teammates is something that they'd be really interested in.

Get on it Karlsson and Burrows

 

[Hale The Villain]

^This.

It isn't 2011.


And people are forgetting the biggest intangible here....the Sens were arguably the closest team, the band of brothers, in the league. That is a huge reason why Erik was able to shine on one leg, why Mac came back, why every single guy played their hearts out. Adding mercenaries (even end-of-the-line ones like the Sedins) at the deadline destroys all of that. The team had magic last year, and now you're willing to throw that away before even knowing what the playoff matchups and circumstance (if we make it) will be.

What's the difference between adding the Sedins and adding Burrows+Stalberg?

Both have the effect of pushing guys like Dzingel/Pyatt/Wingels/Thompson out of the lineup.

Adding Burrows+Stalberg didn't "destroy the magic". I expect adding real difference makers that allow us to push guys like Smith and Stalberg down a line to play against worse competition will only further the magic.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

What's the difference between adding the Sedins and adding Burrows+Stalberg?

Both have the effect of pushing guys like Dzingel/Pyatt/Wingels/Thompson out of the lineup.

Adding Burrows+Stalberg didn't "destroy the magic". I expect adding real difference makers that allow us to push guys like Smith and Stalberg down a line to play against worse competition will only further the magic.

Big difference between adding depth guys to plug the holes at the bottom of the lineup, and bringing in guys expected to carry a heavy load on the team. Mercenary trades rarely work for that reason.

 

[Hale The Villain]

It all depends on the market. As soon as there is more than one serious bidder, the price jumps dramatically. If the price is too low, they just keep them and re-sign them aso legacy vets.

A single sending quality deadline acquisition would easily get a late 1st plus. My starting point is an estimate of full value, the market at the time dictates if we can offer less, but I suspect your offer of 2 seconds would result in a polite no thanks, or getting beat out by another team. Just an opinion, I hope you are right and I am wrong for obvious reasons.

With the Sedins NMC it's not a matter of how many bidders there are, it's a matter of how many suitors.

For reasons I've already stated, I could see the Sens being the only team the Sedins would waive their NMC to go to.

And that's the only situation in which it makes sense to go after the Sedins. If they are willing to waive their NMCs to go to a number of teams, and the price is high to get them, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to do it from a Sens perspective.

If Benning was smart he'd take whatever he can get (within reason) if the Sedins are only willing to waive to go to the Sens. The Sedins love Vancouver and would never leave for a full season, hence the trade deadline acquisition discussion. If they want to continue playing NHL hockey after 2017/18, it will be in Vancouver, not Ottawa. There's almost zero risk to trading them at the deadline. Even if you think two 2nds is not enough, if it's all you can get, you take it. Dzingel+2nd (or a similar package) is more than fair in that scenario.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Big difference between adding depth guys to plug the holes at the bottom of the lineup, and bringing in guys expected to carry a heavy load on the team. Mercenary trades rarely work for that reason.

The only difference is instead of replacing Dzingel and Wingels in the lineup with two other 3rd/4th line guys in Stalberg and Burrows, with marginal improvement, we're replacing two 3rd/4th line guys with two 2nd line guys, resulting in actual improvement.

Replacing 3rd/4th liners with more 3rd/4th liners is stupid.
Replacing 3rd/4th liners with 2nd liners, which has the effect of pushing our 3rd liners down to the 4th line, is smart.

 

[Shruggs Peterson]

The Sedins love Vancouver and probably wouldn't want to leave there for a full season, but we're talking about spending 2-3 months in another city on another team trying to win a cup.

If Karlsson, Burrows, Oduya and even Claesson work to convince them behind the scenes to join the Sens, just like Zetterberg and company did with Alfie in 2014, I could definitely see them accepting a trade to go try to win a cup with their friends before they retire.

And the Kesler return was universally mocked when it happened.

Okay but a lot of things have to go right for the Sedins to even think about Ottawa over another team that has a higher chance at getting to the cup final. It just seems unrealistic.

Also I said praise around Vancouver. Kesler wanted out, handcuffed the team and a new GM, lied to the media for a year and then ripped the city on his way out, and had his agent threaten the team if they could not trade him before training camp.

None of that would ever be used to describe a Sedin trade.

http://vancouversun.com/news/commun...canucks-ryan-kesler-and-his-me-first-attitude

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/canucks+poll+like+hate+ryan+kesler+trade/9982858/story.html

 

[Hale The Villain]

Okay but a lot of things have to go right for the Sedins to even think about Ottawa over another team that has a higher chance at getting to the cup final. It just seems unrealistic.

Alfredsson picked Detroit over teams with better chances to win the cup. Why? Because he had friends on the team, and Zetterberg apparently talked him into it.

Could see the same happening with the Sedins. Frankly I think we have a better chance than almost any other team, based on how things stand right now.

Also I said praise around Vancouver. Kesler wanted out, handcuffed the team and a new GM, lied to the media for a year and then ripped the city on his way out, and had his agent threaten the team if they could not trade him before training camp.

None of that would ever be used to describe a Sedin trade.

http://vancouversun.com/news/commun...canucks-ryan-kesler-and-his-me-first-attitude

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/canucks+poll+like+hate+ryan+kesler+trade/9982858/story.html

Frankly I don't think the average fairweather Canucks fan is capable of objectively looking at a major trade their team makes. That poll result emphasizes tribalism more than anything.

HF was in widespread agreement that the trade was bad, because it was.

I think Canucks fans would be more than happy to cheer the Sedins on for a cup and get good young assets in exchange for lending them to another Canadian team for a couple months. Just like how HFSens would have been happy to cheer for Phillips in 2014 (when we should have traded him at the deadline) and Neil in 2015 (when we should have traded him at the deadline).

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

They only have 7 guys 30+, with two of them right at age 30. One of them is a goalie.

Not really sure you can call this lineup 'old'.

It's actually balanced for once.

According to this website ........ the Senators team has an average age of 29.729, highest in the NHL.

http://nhlnumbers.com/teams

 

[Knave]

According to this website ........ the Senators team has an average age of 29.729, highest in the NHL.

http://nhlnumbers.com/teams

It's more a matter of where our age is though. It's mostly in grinders. Phaneuf and Anderson are the two major 'old' guys with significant roles. I guess you could throw in MacArthur but we essentially played the season without him.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

It's more a matter of where our age is though. It's mostly in grinders. Phaneuf and Anderson are the two major 'old' guys with significant roles. I guess you could throw in MacArthur but we essentially played the season without him.

Nevertheless, the Senators have an average age of 29.729, currently the highest in the NHL.

 

[Boud]

Nevertheless, the Senators have an average age of 29.729, currently the highest in the NHL.

We're 6th in the league in points generated per age. So yea, we're in pretty good shape considering our key contributors are all young.