Sens reduce capacity at Canadian Tire Centre

[Icelevel]

I like this guy and what he says(especially about O logo!)
Anselmi on changes,

https://www.nhl.com/senators/video/tom-anselmi-on-ctc-changes/t-277437424/c-52562403

 

[mcnorth]

Keep seeing posts about people being sick of paying too much and needing more corporate sales. The expensive seats are selling - it's the cheap seats that aren't filled. Boxes are full, you can't get premium seats... wait lists for those. I think a lot of the discussion is missing the mark here. At least that's how I understand the situation.

 

[Masked]

This should have been an easy year to sell tickets considering they were close to playing in the finals 3 months ago. People can try to make excuses all they want about the current arena, pricing, etc. The bottom line is Ottawa is not a good sports town. The only other NHL team that has to resort to tarping seats to "fool the fans" is another hockey hotbed, Phoenix.

Chicago was drawing more fans to their AHL than their NHL team at times when Bill Wirtz owned the Blackhawks.

Outside of hockey operations, the Senators have turned into a really poorly run franchise. They've progressively given less and less of a crap about their fans and it's shown in attendance. I used to have season tickets and now I won't pay to go to a game. And it's all on how I've been treated by their customer service, or lack there of.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Keep seeing posts about people being sick of paying too much and needing more corporate sales. The expensive seats are selling - it's the cheap seats that aren't filled. Boxes are full, you can't get premium seats... wait lists for those. I think a lot of the discussion is missing the mark here. At least that's how I understand the situation.

Someone more in the know can correct me if I'm wrong, but corporations in major cities don't just buy the great seats+luxury boxes. To an extent, they buy season tickets all over the arena.

Sens have to sell more single game/walk up tickets than teams with better corporate support to a fairly small population of fans due to the team's unique circumstances.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

It's nothing complicated like that. It's really simple but if you state the facts people start getting on you as if you're an apologist or you're not man enough to admit the Sens shoulda sold out or something.

-Sens don't have adequate corporate support due to Ottawa being a government town and the government not being allowed to buy tickets the same way private businesses that are the major employers in other Canadian cities do.

-Arena is/was much bigger than most NHL arenas making it harder to sell out.

-The Senators have a unique handicap being squashed between two 100 year old franchises that occupied the territory prior to the Sens coming back. No other Canadian NHL team has to deal with this. Leafs/Canadiens fans don't pay for tickets to Sens games when their teams aren't in town/try to get their children to cheer for their own team making it harder for the Sens to build a fan base. This hits the Sens already low population they have to draw from.

-The Sens no longer paper games. People have what might be a false impression that attendance and interest in the team has dropped because they look at past seasons where there was more papering done.

But if you point this stuff out, you're apparently an apologist and the Sens should do just as well as MTL and TOR at the box office because they are all "Canadian" teams which means they all have equal market places...right? Surely, there couldn't be unique aspects to each Canadian team's market....

This isn't to say the Senators have done a good job marketing the team, and this isn't absolving them of any negative moves they've made but it's incredibly frustrating seeing people who are completely ignorant of the marketplace call a city that's supported multiple major sports teams at once a bad sports city because Ottawa only happened to sell more tic43kets than any other team in the conference final but didn't sell out.

post of the thread right here. Agree with everything

 

[scallionjj11]

I like this guy and what he says(especially about O logo!)
Anselmi on changes,

https://www.nhl.com/senators/video/tom-anselmi-on-ctc-changes/t-277437424/c-52562403

i posted this exact video on the last page.

 

[ottawah]

That's a mistake-when the arena is downtown it will attract a lot more people,15000 is Winnipeg territory .The new arena should be 17500-18000..

Downtown was a pretty bad draw before, attendance really shot up when they moved out of the core, so its not a given. And no parking will cut out a large segment of the population. So maybe 15K is not so bad.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Downtown was a pretty bad draw before, attendance really shot up when they moved out of the core, so its not a given. And no parking will cut out a large segment of the population. So maybe 15K is not so bad.

Landsowne was a horrible place to get to in the early 1990s. And that arena only held 10,500 (iirc).

 

[bert]

This is kind of embarrassing

Kindof? Haha, thats how you pump up a fan base!

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Kindof? Haha, thats how you pump up a fan base!

It's definitely embarrassing, especially after almost making it to the Cup Finals. Just makes the organisation and the market look weak.

 

[ColinM]

Downtown was a pretty bad draw before, attendance really shot up when they moved out of the core, so its not a given. And no parking will cut out a large segment of the population. So maybe 15K is not so bad.

Exactly. It's probably going to be easier to get the City's approval for a 16500 seat venue to be built rather than an 18500 on the basis of drawing less traffic to the area. (i.e. it will be easier to make the residence of the area happy). Not to mention the fact that 2000 fewer seats will likely lower the construction cost.

Thus this wouldn't surprise me if this is a bit of a test run for Lebreton.

Still even if the reason behind the move are valid the optics are horrible.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Exactly. It's probably going to be easier to get the City's approval for a 16500 seat venue to be built rather than an 18500 on the basis of drawing less traffic to the area. (i.e. it will be easier to make the residence of the area happy). Not to mention the fact that 2000 fewer seats will likely lower the construction cost.

Thus this wouldn't surprise me if this is a bit of a test run for Lebreton.

Still even if the reason behind the move are valid the optics are horrible.

I would think (if the city is smart), they're looking more at making sure the arena at the Flats is a true multipurpose facility. Bring in the big musical acts, top Broadway shows, conventions, other premium events.

 

[Big Papi]

Not sure if its been mentioned but this is essentially the same thing the Redblacks did to Lansdowne. It use to hold 27000ish and when they rebuilt the south side the capacity changed to 24500.

Fenway is like 37000 and Cleveland and kansas are both below that i believe. Thats almost 20,000 less than yankee stadium or Dodger Stadium. New ball parks are being made smaller than previous ones from what ive seen.

 

[CDN24]

It's nothing complicated like that. It's really simple but if you state the facts people start getting on you as if you're an apologist or you're not man enough to admit the Sens shoulda sold out or something.

-Sens don't have adequate corporate support due to Ottawa being a government town and the government not being allowed to buy tickets the same way private businesses that are the major employers in other Canadian cities do.

-Arena is/was much bigger than most NHL arenas making it harder to sell out.

-The Senators have a unique handicap being squashed between two 100 year old franchises that occupied the territory prior to the Sens coming back. No other Canadian NHL team has to deal with this. Leafs/Canadiens fans don't pay for tickets to Sens games when their teams aren't in town/try to get their children to cheer for their own team making it harder for the Sens to build a fan base. This hits the Sens already low population they have to draw from.

-The Sens no longer paper games. People have what might be a false impression that attendance and interest in the team has dropped because they look at past seasons where there was more papering done.

But if you point this stuff out, you're apparently an apologist and the Sens should do just as well as MTL and TOR at the box office because they are all "Canadian" teams which means they all have equal market places...right? Surely, there couldn't be unique aspects to each Canadian team's market....

This isn't to say the Senators have done a good job marketing the team, and this isn't absolving them of any negative moves they've made but it's incredibly frustrating seeing people who are completely ignorant of the marketplace call a city that's supported multiple major sports teams at once a bad sports city because Ottawa only happened to sell more tickets than any other team in the conference final but didn't sell out.

Great post.

Their biggest problem is the small season ticket base caused by the small corporate base. Its hard to sell 10K individual tickets a game and even harder when everyone knows they are not scarce and No need to buy early I can by on game day if I want to go then. The arena is a bit too big for the market.

I saw stats about 10 years ago from a source a trust that showed how many free tickets were given away by team on average league wide. Sens led the league with an average over 2500 a game given away which implies that even then the arena was 2500 seats too big or the corporate support 2500 seats too small. I too heard that they stopped or significantly reduced the practice last year. Everyone gives away some to alumni charity etc.

I agree its not easy setting up shop in an area dominated by Leafs/Habs fans but their marketing dept has done a brutal job of appealing to Habs/leafs fans. They have put no effort in marketing to the Quebec side. yeah you are not going to convert many habs fans but had they started a decent plan 25 years ago in Qc they would have converted a lot of second generation fans to sens fans by now like has happened on this side.

Disclaimer- I am a hockey fan first, Habs fan second who moved here 9 years ago. First few years I always bought a 6 game minipack of tickets that included one of the Hab games. Compared to mtl the price was right even if the arena was halfway to Winnipeg and the parking situation brutal. Then 3 or 4 years ago they complain about too many Habs/leafs fans at the games- I guess during playoff series with Mtl. I decided that if he did not want me there for games against Montreal he was not going to get me there for games against anyone else either and have stopped buying my 6 game pack. I have been to one game there since. I spend those dollars taking my son to a game or 2 at the bell center each year and surprisingly as I live in the southeast part of Ottawa I can get home within 30 mins of the time it takes me from Kanata.

On the marketing side, the next fall in August I got an e-mail asking or offering to sell me a package again. I replied with why I was not interested (you said you did not want mtl fans at your arena) and I did not receive a reply a follow-up or any attempt to regain my business- I guess they truly did not want me there. For that reason and many others I feel that marketing has been a weakness for a long time. Sometimes it seems that the organization is ignorant of the realities of this marketplace as well.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Not sure if its been mentioned but this is essentially the same thing the Redblacks did to Lansdowne. It use to hold 27000ish and when they rebuilt the south side the capacity changed to 24500.

Fenway is like 37000 and Cleveland and kansas are both below that i believe. Thats almost 20,000 less than yankee stadium or Dodger Stadium. New ball parks are being made smaller than previous ones from what ive seen.

Well, society itself is changing. Long working hours, longer commute times, more folks investing a higher percentage of their income in housing. Add in the technology at home with media rooms, high def television and being able to watch any pro game in North America with subscription packages.

It makes sense that more people are simply staying home and watching from home.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

We were already being eaten alive for the attendance issue in the first place. So this'll just give people something else to mock us over.

Its pretty ridiculous though. Attendance only really became an issue recently after a few years of wildly inconsistent play from the team, but suddenly now the market apparently can't support the team to that capacity? In an arena that's out in the sticks? Sure thing Euge.

And yeah, if they're seriously thinking about building this arena with anything less than 18 000 seats, the NCC should intervene. We're making an investment in this team's (and the city's) future here, not building some rinky-dink rink here.

I've not heard of any public money being used to build a new Arena, so it's puzzling to think that government should be used to dictate what capacity a private investor should build his arena, when it's his money, his risk and business?

 

[tony d]

Yeah, this is embarrassing. I would hope the team has plans to build a new arena that's closer to Ottawa or in Ottawa than the arena they have now.

 

[Tuna99]

For a team that Melnyck paid $92 million for that is is now valued at aboout $400 million this market has made him rich(er) off of hockey and has nothing to hang it's head about.

If the fans aren't filling the stadium it's the brand and poor business decisions. This has nothing to do with payroll systems, Ottawa people being fickle or Canadains being cheap.

The business of the team is that we have an old stadium that hasn't been invested in, Melnyck needed a new stadium last season, not in 2021 and the lifetime of the Palladium had execceded it's excpected use 5 years ago so his own mistake.

But for a franchise that has increased in value over $300 million in the 10 years Melnyck has owned it - has there been a sports franchise in North America who has had more ink written bout the poor struggling owner then Ottawa - and this comes from their own people - The ticket guys, the owner crying poor.

Maybe the reason the brand isn't selling is because people pay $400 to take their kids to an NHL hockey game with Sidney Corsby and the owner of the team calls Crsoby a whiner and a baby and he should be kicked out of the league and then we hear a couple of weeks later he is a complete jerk to the ticket seleers within the franchise and the guy who spend $400 on 4 hours of entertainment and 2.5 hours of driving out of a parking lot thinks "I'm really not into this. I like Crosby more then Melnyck, I just gave over $400 of my own money and all I hear about is how poorly the guy who lives in the bahamas is doing, I'll saty at home and watch on TV and order pizza"

 

[benjiv1]

Yeah, this is embarrassing. I would hope the team has plans to build a new arena that's closer to Ottawa or in Ottawa than the arena they have now.

Do you live under a rock?

 

[Micklebot]

Downtown was a pretty bad draw before, attendance really shot up when they moved out of the core, so its not a given. And no parking will cut out a large segment of the population. So maybe 15K is not so bad.

If I recall, attendance shot up when we hired Martin as our HC, likely because we became a winning team. That happened around the traded deadline of our first year in the Corel center Palladium, and if memory serves, we only played our first game in that arena in January, as it opened mid season.

The truth is there was a lot of buzz around the Palladium; it was a very nice arena for it's time, and that, combined with renewed hope for a winning team thanks to Martin being hired, meant season ticket sales got a bump. To suggest the Kanata location was a driving factor for attendance increase is misleading imo, at best you could argue being in a substandard venue lacking the infrastructure required to house an NHL team put a downward force on attendance when they were at the civic center, but that won't be the case at Lebreton, as the venue will be purpose built to house an NHL team, and LRT will also be available. .

 

[Micklebot]

Do you live under a rock?

It's early, maybe you just need a coffee

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Someone more in the know can correct me if I'm wrong, but corporations in major cities don't just buy the great seats+luxury boxes. To an extent, they buy season tickets all over the arena.

Sens have to sell more single game/walk up tickets than teams with better corporate support to a fairly small population of fans due to the team's unique circumstances.

And in the middle of winter, "walk up" tickets are a hard sell, with the terrible location of the CTC ............YES, I know that without the location and plan to build the "Palladium" at the time was absoulutley a requirement, when the NHL awarded the franchise to Ottawa............but the point is, when the new arena is located centrally in Lebreton Flats ...... "walk up" tickets will be in much higher demand, because it will not involve a long drive to Kanata and the cost of parking, and the "issues" with the parking lot ........ or a long drive on OC Transpo ..........

 

[lancepitlick]

Someone wrote on facebook that going to the arena is about as fun as going to the airport.

The location, parking, Melnyk mismanagement, atmosphere and lack of anything new/exciting at the rink all make going to a game a chore. Transit to/from is also chaos, which reflects mismanagement. If someone gives me tickets I'm not all that inclined to go.

I'd pay good money to see a reporter tag along with Melnyk as he takes the bus from Lincoln Fields on a Tuesday night and register his reactions.

All of this is a result of poor management from the outset until now and Melnyks refusal to invest money.

 

[Tuna99]

If I recall, attendance shot up when we hired Martin as our HC, likely because we became a winning team. That happened around the traded deadline of our first year in the Corel center Palladium, and if memory serves, we only played our first game in that arena in January, as it opened mid season.

The truth is there was a lot of buzz around the Palladium; it was a very nice arena for it's time, and that, combined with renewed hope for a winning team thanks to Martin being hired, meant season ticket sales got a bump. To suggest the Kanata location was a driving factor for attendance increase is misleading imo, at best you could argue being in a substandard venue lacking the infrastructure required to house an NHL team put a downward force on attendance when they were at the civic center, but that won't be the case at Lebreton, as the venue will be purpose built to house an NHL team, and LRT will also be available. .

For Business owners who buy seasons tickets to give to their clients as gifts, tickets to the Palladium now isn't a present it's become a chore.

You hand over two tickets to a Saturday game and follow it up with this explanation:

"Game is at 7:00 but you should leave by 5:00pm to make sure you don't get stuck in traffic, make sure you have a $20 bill on you for parking and you bring 5 sweaters if it's cold outside. There aren't really any restaurants out there to eat at so make sure you have dinner before the game. And try to leave with about 10 minutes left in the game so you don't get stuck in the parking lot or it'll take you 1 hour to get home. Have fun watching the Hurrinaces"

In every other Canadian going to a hockey game is something a tourist knows to do, but in Ottawa it's not something that is easy or realistic. You can't go have a steak and some beers before the game and walk to the stadium like in every other Canadian City, it's a nightmare to be honest and no business owner wants to give tickets away because it's not special to do. It's a pain and in reality most of these gift tickets get re-gifted and sometimes people don't even want them.

 

[Very Stable Genius]

Redblacks straight up trolling the Sens, adding 1500 seats to their stadium