OT: Sens Lounge XCV: Music Mourning Edition

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PeterSidorkiewicz

HFWF Tourney Undisputed Champion
Apr 30, 2004
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Buyer's agent though will typically only direct you to sales by other agents, as sale by owner commissions are less.

You can actually usually convince the seller's agent to reduce some of the 5% commission if you don't have an agent, as they no longer have to split with yours.

So a buyers agent does cost you something indirectly.

Of course in Ontario, they're still keeping all the sales history records secret so that is one advantage agents have over non agents (unless you have a friend who is one and can hook you up with comparables).

Also, even in this ridiculous market I think the seller is still paying closing costs. So it's not like you're paying the lawyer much more than 100 bucks for looking over a status certificate or something like that.

True true but I think the cost benefit analysis is that I'd rather just deal with having a buyers agent than doing a for sale by owner and getting all that done on my own, which is definitely doable as people obviously do it.

I mean I figure this is why real estate agents still exist.
 

Caeldan

Whippet Whisperer
Jun 21, 2008
15,459
1,046
True true but I think the cost benefit analysis is that I'd rather just deal with having a buyers agent than doing a for sale by owner and getting all that done on my own, which is definitely doable as people obviously do it.

I mean I figure this is why real estate agents still exist.

Yeah, I've never fully figured out the how or why real estate agents exist because it seems like one of those 'well I can't find any other work, so let's spend the weekend getting my real estate license' jobs.
 

Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
34,900
9,314
Yeah, I've never fully figured out the how or why real estate agents exist because it seems like one of those 'well I can't find any other work, so let's spend the weekend getting my real estate license' jobs.

Pretty much the same thing an be said for every type of "consultant" job.

Kinda funny how our western civilization has so many unnecessary and redundant jobs out there.
 

Here I Pageau Again

Registered User
Jul 4, 2012
8,268
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Pretty much the same thing an be said for every type of "consultant" job.

Kinda funny how our western civilization has so many unnecessary and redundant jobs out there.

I just look at my own work and all the random jobs ppl do. And all the pointless committees to decide things that really could be easily decided by those who actually are on the front line of care.

Although I've got to hand it to my work, the last time they did cut backs they cut back all middle management positions rather than bedside positions.
 

Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
34,900
9,314
I just look at my own work and all the random jobs ppl do. And all the pointless committees to decide things that really could be easily decided by those who actually are on the front line of care.

Although I've got to hand it to my work, the last time they did cut backs they cut back all middle management positions rather than bedside positions.

Exactly. Best way to learn and understand is by doing. People on the front lines often have the best ideas and methods.
 

DrEasy

Out rumptackling
Oct 3, 2010
11,011
6,708
Stützville
I'm not so sure that's the answer either, or at least, it doesn't solve all the problems that exist with the current system. Realtors are incentivised to sell quick, not sell for maximum return for their client. Flat fees don't really change that incentive, and could even exacerbate it.

Paying realtors on an 'a la carte' basis for the services rendered might be the best in terms of fairness, but it shifts a lot of risk onto the seller.

I mean, I've seen 500k houses sell within days of being listed; did the selling realtor really have time to earn their ~12.5k? Did the owner get his/her 25k worth out of that 5% commission? I guess you could argue that the value is in the quick turn around.
I think you're right about realtor incentives. There was even a chapter in Freakonomics (or some other similar book, they all blend into one in my old brain) about that.
 

maclean

Registered User
Jan 4, 2014
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Explain to me how "life experience" is a reason that pseudoscience is now valid or should be approved of? You're just posting an argument from age fallacy.
She is educating herself on non-facts, that is a reason for her kids to be concerned (otherwise they wouldn't have posted in this thread), as they should be.

Anyone who's spent a fair amount of time on this planet and not had their eyes closed has experienced that there are things science can't even begin to explain. She is attempting to find more information on these things. A high degree of scepticisim and caution should be exercised on her part, but just blanketing it all as lies belittles her own experiences that have led her to explore this path.

The person is trying to help their mother realize that what she is "learning" is completely fabricated and hogwash. The pseudoscience/homeopathy industry is riddled with crooks and fraud artists, stop defending them.

So you're advising continuing to belittle her? Good luck with that. You'd think after the whole US elections thing people would've started realising that just calling everyone with a different opinion idiots is kind of a dead end street
 

PeterSidorkiewicz

HFWF Tourney Undisputed Champion
Apr 30, 2004
32,442
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Anyone who's spent a fair amount of time on this planet and not had their eyes closed has experienced that there are things science can't even begin to explain. She is attempting to find more information on these things. A high degree of scepticisim and caution should be exercised on her part, but just blanketing it all as lies belittles her own experiences that have led her to explore this path.



So you're advising continuing to belittle her? Good luck with that. You'd think after the whole US elections thing people would've started realising that just calling everyone with a different opinion idiots is kind of a dead end street

Very good point. Even if you think something is hogwash, belittling and attacking people will not get them to change their minds. You need to be constructive and explain why you think she's wrong and needs to be weary.

Heck I just watched a video on a guy who is a former white supremacist who now founded a non-profit to try and help people succeed after their life of being an extremist. By helping educate them, get them jobs, etc. Anyway, in his interview he says what turned him from being a white supremacist was the kindness people showed him even though he hated them right back, and even though he didn't deserve their kindness. If someone attacked his ideology he said he never would have listened, or thought to change the hate he had.
 

Engineer

Rustled your jimmies
Dec 23, 2013
6,143
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Anyone who's spent a fair amount of time on this planet and not had their eyes closed has experienced that there are things science can't even begin to explain.

Simply amazing that you are sitting on a high horse when all that you keep posting are logical fallacies. Also quite telling how you keep complaining that educated people belittle the uneducated but here you are belittling people yourself, very hypocritical.

Nobody argues that science has an answer for everything, but only the uneducated argue that gaps in knowledge are a valid argument for pseudoscience or belief in the supernatural. You're arguing a fallacy called the God of the gaps, you can google it and teach yourself why it isn't a valid argument, and refrain from using it in the future.

She is attempting to find more information on these things.
You are putting words in her mouth, you barely have any idea what she is trying to learn, since the original poster included very little detail into what pseudoscience she is "learning".

It looks to me like you are trying to defend your beliefs in pseudoscience, not hers.

So you're advising continuing to belittle her? Good luck with that. You'd think after the whole US elections thing people would've started realising that just calling everyone with a different opinion idiots is kind of a dead end street

The only person who keeps using the word belittle, or implying that attempting to educate her with real science is belittling, is you. This is a common occurrence with the anti-vaxxers and pseudoscience believers, criticizing information because it is coming from an invalid source is not "belittling" or an attack on your "opinion". The fact is pseudoscience is based on non-facts. The person has posted that they are trying to make their mother realize it is non-factual, the user did not post anything about belittling, but posted that they are criticizing the material.

Your Trump "argument" is simply a red herring.
 
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maclean

Registered User
Jan 4, 2014
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Congratulations, I stopped reading halfway through, thanks for proving my point
 

Benjamin

Differently Financed
Jun 14, 2010
31,118
438
yes
Simply amazing that you are sitting on a high horse when all that you keep posting are logical fallacies. Also quite telling how you keep complaining that educated people belittle the uneducated but here you are belittling people yourself, very hypocritical.

Nobody argues that science has an answer for everything, but only the uneducated argue that gaps in knowledge are a valid argument for pseudoscience or belief in the supernatural. You're arguing a fallacy called the God of the gaps, you can google it and teach yourself why it isn't a valid argument, and refrain from using it in the future.


You are putting words in her mouth, you barely have any idea what she is trying to learn, since the original poster included very little detail into what pseudoscience she is "learning".

It looks to me like you are trying to defend your beliefs in pseudoscience, not hers.



The only person who keeps using the word belittle, or implying that attempting to educate her with real science is belittling, is you. This is a common occurrence with the anti-vaxxers and pseudoscience believers, criticizing information because it is coming from an invalid source is not "belittling" or an attack on your "opinion". The fact is pseudoscience is based on non-facts. The person has posted that they are trying to make their mother realize it is non-factual, the user did not post anything about belittling, but posted that they are criticizing the material.

Your Trump "argument" is simply a red herring.
Perfect response.
Anyone who's spent a fair amount of time on this planet and not had their eyes closed has experienced that there are things science can't even begin to explain.

I think you mean humans can't yet explain. Just because we don't have an explanation doesn't mean its automatically some supernatural happening. Definitely google 'God of the gaps'. "I can't explain it, so it must be god"

I dunno how people can think like that when theres zero evidence for anything supernatural ever happening or existing. Feels over reals.
 

Here I Pageau Again

Registered User
Jul 4, 2012
8,268
2,871
Exactly. Best way to learn and understand is by doing. People on the front lines often have the best ideas and methods.

They really do.

That said most of what we implement is done by people who are not front line workers. We got a new charting system.... then the company that helped implement it said after constant issues, "this really isn't meant for an ICU..." well no **** sherlock!! If you would have gotten any front line staff to help, we could have all told you that!

But I don't see it changing all that much, plus so many ppl are just yes men and will do whatever the big wigs want!
 

maclean

Registered User
Jan 4, 2014
8,512
2,611
I think you mean humans can't yet explain. Just because we don't have an explanation doesn't mean its automatically some supernatural happening.

Sure. And just because science can't explain something now doesn't mean it won't be able to in the future and it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist until the point science finds a way to pin it down in exact terms
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
51,167
9,909
Wow, I didn't even know they released a new one!! It's been like 8 years since the last one.

Will listen at work.

Thanks for the heads up :)
 

Mingus Dew

Microphone Assassin
Oct 7, 2013
5,587
4,144
Heading to Austin for Memorial Day weekend. Very excited.

I will be waiting in line for dat Franklin's BBQ.
 

Engineer

Rustled your jimmies
Dec 23, 2013
6,143
1,892
Congratulations, I stopped reading halfway through, thanks for proving my point

The point that was proven isn't what you think it is.

Sure. And just because science can't explain something now doesn't mean it won't be able to in the future and it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist until the point science finds a way to pin it down in exact terms

This is far too vague to have any meaning.
 
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maclean

Registered User
Jan 4, 2014
8,512
2,611
Isn't it? My point was about trying to communicate with someone else who maybe sees things a different way. My feeling is you tried to turn it into a debate of some kind of reason vs spirituality, placing me in the second camp. My point was that if you want to open a line of communication with someone you care about you have to go about it tactfully, that if you come on too strong the other person can either get defensive (i.e. also reacting aggressively) or they'll just disengage. It's not a path to dialogue. I really have no interest in debating some kind of feels vs reals. This really isn't the format for it. I was trying to address the question posed, and was suggesting that in order for him to have a meaningful discussion on the topic it is best to approach it less polemically.
 

PeterSidorkiewicz

HFWF Tourney Undisputed Champion
Apr 30, 2004
32,442
9,701
Lansing, MI
Im on episode 7, its a good show, but there's something about it that just doesn't put it over the edge for me as a great show that I really want to watch. I love Eric Wareheim though.
 

Engineer

Rustled your jimmies
Dec 23, 2013
6,143
1,892
Isn't it? My point was about trying to communicate with someone else who maybe sees things a different way.
No it wasn't, I would quote your posts but they are all in the last 3 pages so no need, you were trying to validate pseudoscience through the use of logical fallacies. Communication was a minor aspect of your posts where you implied that any criticism was belittling and ego inflating.

My point was that if you want to open a line of communication with someone you care about you have to go about it tactfully, that if you come on too strong the other person can either get defensive (i.e. also reacting aggressively) or they'll just disengage.
You said that in one post, and the rest were arguing what I said above. You made the assumption that the person was belittling them and that their opinion is valid by default because they are older and have seen that science doesn't answer everything.
This really isn't the format for it. I was trying to address the question posed, and was suggesting that in order for him to have a meaningful discussion on the topic it is best to approach it less polemically.

It's as good of a format as any.

You can review your posts because that wasn't the main point of your arguments until now.
 

saskriders

Can't Hold Leads
Sep 11, 2010
25,065
1,607
Calgary
Well today my mom told me she heard about a fruit called gac that is super healthy and that the Vietnamese put in everything. I said no, they don't put that in everything, I was there and never had it, nor do I ever remember seeing it in a market (though I could have mistaken it for durian). I asked her where she heard of this and she said David Wolfe. I had seen his garbage on Facebook before, but holy **** is this guy insane.

From his Wikipedia Page's criticism tab:

Wolfe has been criticized for promoting pseudoscience.[26][27] His popularity on social media networks such as Facebook has led to backlash articles from critics, who accuse him of profiting from pseudoscience and promoting potentially harmful subjects, such as anti-vaccination.[28]

He promotes a diet based on raw plants,[22][29] stating that this has a "detoxification" effect, while no scientific basis for this sort of "detoxification" has been noted.[26][30]
He advocates that people with cancer take dietary supplements instead of getting proper medical attention.[31]
He believes that "chemtrails" exist and are harmful to people and animals.[22][32] There is no evidence of the existence of "chemtrails", and multiple scientific agencies have explained that such clouds are merely common contrails.[33]
He has considered cocoa to be one of several "superfoods",[25][34] a marketing term with no clear definition and not in widespread use by dieticians and nutrition scientists.[35]
He says that deer antler spray is "levitational" and an "androgenic force", which he promotes and sells.[29][36]
He claims that mushrooms have an "advanced intelligence and consciousness". He has stated that mushroom spores can "levitate off the planet" and believes they are trying to "get to the center of the sun".[37] He has stated that mushroom spores originally came from "distant planets" and were "carried by cosmic winds or meteors into the Earth's atmosphere", stating "the preliminary work develops as the mushroom mycelium sets itself up to network and nourish multi-celled carbohydrate-forming organisms".[38] He has also stated that the mushrooms that grow in trees are "medicinal mushrooms".[39]
He believes vaccines are dangerous and may not work.[22][40][41]
He believes that the Earth is flat and that gravity is a hoax,[42][43][44] ideas that are considered to be pseudoscientific and are not compatible with the physical evidence of the Earth, which is spheroidal in shape.[45]

Off course this piece of ****'s website is full of stuff for sale.

I think it is extremely scary that my mother is into all of this, especially considering what he says of cancer. I am also worried that if she outlived my dad she might get super crazy into all the alternative medicine garbage.
 
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