OT: Sens Lounge CIV - Keep your damned hands off the door edition

Wipers up or down for a winter storm?


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PoutineSp00nZ

Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Jul 21, 2009
20,109
5,720
Ottawa
Far more of an issue is the "**** you, got mine" attitude.

I get that the LRT has had issues (been world class the few times I took it) but it never ceases to confound me how everyone drives alone everywhere.

People are not willing to sacrifice comfort and our kids are going to pay the price and, indirectly so will I, how can I tell a potential child of mine that things are going to be ok? The last few ladies I went on dates expressed quite strongly that they don't want kids, what's the point when we are ensuring that their future will be awful?

Ywah thsts part of why I dont want kids.

People should use transit more, but I cant blme people considering how terrible public transit is in this city.

If the light rail went from orleans to kanata, I think we would eliminate a tonne of traffic.
 
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Stylizer1

SENSimillanaire
Jun 12, 2009
19,341
3,724
Ottabot City
Ywah thsts part of why I dont want kids.

People should use transit more, but I cant blme people considering how terrible public transit is in this city.

If the light rail went from orleans to kanata, I think we would eliminate a tonne of traffic.
That would be great for people who love to drive. I'm all for it.

Blame the industrialists of North America who designed the infrastructure to accommodate cars and who built the suburbs.
 

PoutineSp00nZ

Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Jul 21, 2009
20,109
5,720
Ottawa
That would be great for people who love to drive. I'm all for it.

Blame the industrialists of North America who designed the infrastructure to accommodate cars and who built the suburbs.

Yup. If you live in the suburbs it's a bitch not having a car. I dont have one, but I use uber to get groceries and go places quickly when I need to. That adds up tho. If you uber a lot, might as well just buy a damn car.

The busses suck so much. And with the routes eliminated from the light rail ... add another transfer and loads of wait time if you want to get through downtown.
 
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Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,459
8,282
Victoria
I don’t think fewer cars on the road is going to save the day at all, given how small it is compared to industrial pollution, but in the spirit I think it’s a shame that school districts have stopped bussing kids to school and home.

Out here at least, every parent has to drive their kid to school and pick them up, that’s a lot of useless driving.
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
51,211
9,966
I don’t think fewer cars on the road is going to save the day at all, given how small it is compared to industrial pollution, but in the spirit I think it’s a shame that school districts have stopped bussing kids to school and home.

Out here at least, every parent has to drive their kid to school and pick them up, that’s a lot of useless driving.

That doesn't sound very BC? It also sounds very stupid and probably a "cost cutting measure" when other more expensive and wasteful stuff is maintained.
 
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PoutineSp00nZ

Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Jul 21, 2009
20,109
5,720
Ottawa
I don’t think fewer cars on the road is going to save the day at all, given how small it is compared to industrial pollution, but in the spirit I think it’s a shame that school districts have stopped bussing kids to school and home.

Out here at least, every parent has to drive their kid to school and pick them up, that’s a lot of useless driving.

No more school busses? That's insane.

And fewer cars on the roads wont fix things, but its something.

Governments and corporations are the ones that need to make changes to keep our planet habitable.
 
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YouGotAStuGoing

Registered User
Mar 26, 2010
19,361
4,936
Ottawa, Ontario
I don’t think fewer cars on the road is going to save the day at all, given how small it is compared to industrial pollution, but in the spirit I think it’s a shame that school districts have stopped bussing kids to school and home.

Out here at least, every parent has to drive their kid to school and pick them up, that’s a lot of useless driving.
Putting aside the very notable environmental issues of having many cars transporting children where it used to be one vehicle doing the same job... this would be a horrible move from a public safety perspective. School buses are pretty damn safe modes of transportation — since 2009, there's been exactly one school bus passenger in Canada who has died aboard a bus after a crash.

Put that into perspective: thousands of kids every single day are shuttled to and from school across the country. I'm aware you're in B.C., @Ice-Tray, but I hope you'll indulge me in using Ontario numbers here since I have a direct frame of reference. My ride was about an hour each way growing up, and Ontario estimates a school year at 194 days. I was a pretty healthy kid — so let's say for argument's sake I missed four days of school a year to keep it a nice round 190. 190 days times an hour each way times two trips comes up to 380 hours a year on a bus. Probably a bit high for the average kid, so let's use a half hour ride as a baseline instead of my hour-long one and divide that number by two. We're at 190 hours per kid over the span of a full school year.

Elementary schools run from kindergarten to grade 8, resulting in a total of nine years. (Yes, some schools only run til grade 6 and the high schools take care of the rest, but for simplicity's sake let's roll with this.) Nine years multiplied by that 190 hours per kid comes up to 1,710 hours on a bus per kid per elementary school experience. Assuming, then, that high schools run from gr. 9-12, we've got another 760 hours per kid on top of that.

Let's go deeper. Each grade has, what, 30 kids or so on average? Maybe higher, but again let's be conservative with our estimates. 30 kids times 1,710 hours (elementary) equals 51,300 hours and 30 kids times 760 hours (high school) equals 22,800 hours.

Per the Ministry of Education of Ontario, there were 3,954 elementary schools and 896 secondary schools in the 2017-18 school year. So 3,954 times 51,300 is 202,840,200 hours spent on buses by Ontario elementary school students every year, and 896 times 22,800 is an additional 20,428,800 hours spent throughout high school.

Put 'em together, and that's 223,269,000 man-hours that Ontario kids spend on school buses every year — the equivalent of 9,302,875 full days or 25,847 years. Per year. In Ontario alone. Multiply that by 10, add in the same numbers from every other province, and that's the scope of the stat we're talking about. And in that time, one single child has died as a result of a collision. My methodology is far from perfect, but you can't tell me that's not a stellar safety record. And you mean to tell me that, somewhere, someone thought it'd be a good idea to pull buses OFF the road?! That's mind-boggling.
 
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Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,459
8,282
Victoria
Putting aside the very notable environmental issues of having many cars transporting children where it used to be one vehicle doing the same job... this would be a horrible move from a public safety perspective. School buses are pretty damn safe modes of transportation — since 2009, there's been exactly one school bus passenger in Canada who has died aboard a bus after a crash.

Put that into perspective: thousands of kids every single day are shuttled to and from school across the country. I'm aware you're in B.C., @Ice-Tray, but I hope you'll indulge me in using Ontario numbers here since I have a direct frame of reference. My ride was about an hour each way growing up, and Ontario estimates a school year at 194 days. I was a pretty healthy kid — so let's say for argument's sake I missed four days of school a year to keep it a nice round 190. 190 days times an hour each way times two trips comes up to 380 hours a year on a bus. Probably a bit high for the average kid, so let's use a half hour ride as a baseline instead of my hour-long one and divide that number by two. We're at 190 hours per kid over the span of a full school year.

Elementary schools run from kindergarten to grade 8, resulting in a total of nine years. (Yes, some schools only run til grade 6 and the high schools take care of the rest, but for simplicity's sake let's roll with this.) Nine years multiplied by that 190 hours per kid comes up to 1,710 hours on a bus per kid per elementary school experience. Assuming, then, that high schools run from gr. 9-12, we've got another 760 hours per kid on top of that.

Let's go deeper. Each grade has, what, 30 kids or so on average? Maybe higher, but again let's be conservative with our estimates. 30 kids times 1,710 hours (elementary) equals 51,300 hours and 30 kids times 760 hours (high school) equals 22,800 hours.

Per the Ministry of Education of Ontario, there were 3,954 elementary schools and 896 secondary schools in the 2017-18 school year. So 3,954 times 51,300 is 202,840,200 hours spent on buses by Ontario elementary school students every year, and 896 times 22,800 is an additional 20,428,800 hours spent throughout high school.

Put 'em together, and that's 223,269,000 man-hours that Ontario kids spend on school buses every year — the equivalent of 9,302,875 full days or 25,847 years. Per year. In Ontario alone. Multiply that by 10, add in the same numbers from every other province, and that's the scope of the stat we're talking about. And in that time, one single child has died as a result of a collision. My methodology is far from perfect, but you can't tell me that's not a stellar safety record. And you mean to tell me that, somewhere, someone thought it'd be a good idea to pull buses OFF the road?! That's mind-boggling.

Haha, awesome post. Yeah guys it’s pretty crazy, especially when they could use electric buses.

8am and 3pm are crazy in the streets, it’s two more rush hours with single cars driving kids everywhere all across town.

We also just got legislated to build a sewage treatment plan, so B.C. yes, but not exactly in the cutting edge of big enviro....

Anyways, merry Christmas all, have a safe and lovely holiday.
 

Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
35,011
9,427
Ywah thsts part of why I dont want kids.

People should use transit more, but I cant blme people considering how terrible public transit is in this city.

If the light rail went from orleans to kanata, I think we would eliminate a tonne of traffic.

That's the fatal flaw with the LRT right now. They really needed to have the entire line across the city finished before opening it up to the public. At least that way, you can justify taking a few buses off the roads (but not nearly as many as they did).

It really sucks. I live in a rural area so I need a car...but it would be so nice to go without one. Eliminating a car payment, gas & maintenance costs along with insurance....that's a nice little bundle of money at the end of the year.
 

DrEasy

Out rumptackling
Oct 3, 2010
11,054
6,762
Stützville
That's the fatal flaw with the LRT right now. They really needed to have the entire line across the city finished before opening it up to the public. At least that way, you can justify taking a few buses off the roads (but not nearly as many as they did).
The thing is that building the entire line costs a lot of money. It makes sense to release it in bits, first to see if it's working (clearly not very well right now), to amortize the expenses, get some people using it to help finance the next phases, etc.

The problem was that they didn't have much of a transition phase from all buses to no buses at all. Have them both running, maybe with fewer buses initially, then gradually phase out the buses. But it costs $$$ and this city cuts corners when possible.
 

Stylizer1

SENSimillanaire
Jun 12, 2009
19,341
3,724
Ottabot City
The thing is that building the entire line costs a lot of money. It makes sense to release it in bits, first to see if it's working (clearly not very well right now), to amortize the expenses, get some people using it to help finance the next phases, etc.

The problem was that they didn't have much of a transition phase from all buses to no buses at all. Have them both running, maybe with fewer buses initially, then gradually phase out the buses. But it costs $$$ and this city cuts corners when possible.
They should have kept the express buses from the suburbs. As stages get completed you incorporate them into the system.
 

JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
16,133
9,712
Governments and corporations are the ones that need to make changes to keep our planet habitable.

Indeed this is true....but mostly we are talking other governments. If India and China do not address climate change, we'll get a first row seat to see whether the predictions are true

Here in Canada....we could shut down everything. No cars. No manufacturing. No oil. No hydro. Nothing. Turn the country completely off. And it would barely make a rounding error in the global problem
 

FunkySeeFunkyDoo

Registered User
Feb 3, 2009
5,079
2,731
Ottawa
I don’t think fewer cars on the road is going to save the day at all, given how small it is compared to industrial pollution .

I'm not sure this is correct. Any analysis I've ever seen shows carbon emissions from "transportation" as exceeding that from "industrial ". I am on my phone now so it's difficult for me to post links, but will do so later today.
 

Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
35,011
9,427
Indeed this is true....but mostly we are talking other governments. If India and China do not address climate change, we'll get a first row seat to see whether the predictions are true

Here in Canada....we could shut down everything. No cars. No manufacturing. No oil. No hydro. Nothing. Turn the country completely off. And it would barely make a rounding error in the global problem

All depends on how you count pollution. Per capita, Canada is one of the worst polluters (much worse than China) on the planet. Difference is, we're sitting well under 50 million people, while China is bursting at the seams with over a billion. And, believe it or not, China has done a lot more than Canada to reduce their emissions. But, because they were so awful to begin with, and because they still have such a heavy industrial influence, they're still heavy polluters overall.

That's the thing....we can look really pretty...or really shitty, depending on the metric you use.
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
51,211
9,966
All depends on how you count pollution. Per capita, Canada is one of the worst polluters (much worse than China) on the planet. Difference is, we're sitting well under 50 million people, while China is bursting at the seams with over a billion. And, believe it or not, China has done a lot more than Canada to reduce their emissions. But, because they were so awful to begin with, and because they still have such a heavy industrial influence, they're still heavy polluters overall.

That's the thing....we can look really pretty...or really ****ty, depending on the metric you use.

As soon as it gets a little cold people here just crank the heat and vice versa in summer with air conditioning.

North America is insanely wasteful.
 
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Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,459
8,282
Victoria
I'm not sure this is correct. Any analysis I've ever seen shows carbon emissions from "transportation" as exceeding that from "industrial ". I am on my phone now so it's difficult for me to post links, but will do so later today.

Transportation is generally more, but includes trucking, shipping, planes, trains, etc....

So perhaps I should have said industrial/commercial.

Interestingly generating electricity seems about the same as industrial emissions, in the US.

I should add that I’m not arguing against EVs or anything :)
 
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JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
16,133
9,712
All depends on how you count pollution. Per capita, Canada is one of the worst polluters (much worse than China) on the planet. Difference is, we're sitting well under 50 million people, while China is bursting at the seams with over a billion. And, believe it or not, China has done a lot more than Canada to reduce their emissions. But, because they were so awful to begin with, and because they still have such a heavy industrial influence, they're still heavy polluters overall.

That's the thing....we can look really pretty...or really ****ty, depending on the metric you use.

Industrialized nations are per capita worse, definitely. But as you said we are so small that we are insignificant in the grander scheme of things. The biggest hope for the world lies with the Indians and Chinese pushing into nuclear and renewable power and away from coal. Add to that a massive push for fuel efficiency for vehicles. Doubly add to that governments of the world incenting the private sector to develop real solutions as opposed to the verbal diarrhea that comes from our politicians
 
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Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
35,011
9,427
Industrialized nations are per capita worse, definitely. But as you said we are so small that we are insignificant in the grander scheme of things. The biggest hope for the world lies with the Indians and Chinese pushing into nuclear and renewable power and away from coal. Add to that a massive push for fuel efficiency for vehicles. Doubly add to that governments of the world incenting the private sector to develop real solutions as opposed to the verbal diarrhea that comes from our politicians

I don't know specifically about switching to nuclear, but China has been flipping a lot of their energy needs to renewables. And working with the industrial sector and cutting down emissions there. They have a long way to go, but they've pumped billions into it already, and are still putting more money into it every year.

Thing is, politicians and industry in Canada have been hiding behind our small population to do the ole "we're just a blip on the radar, we're doing great!" when we aren't. If the rest of the planet was as wasteful and dirty as Canada, we'd likely be nearly extinct already. And there's another problem...do we think the folks in China and India who are gaining wealth want to throw away their new lifestyle and conserve, then they look over to Canada and see us doing next to nothing? That's the real key here....you're not going to get everyone on board and working towards a common goal if countries like Canada are allowed to just continue as usual but we're asking them to give up their goodies for the common good. That will never work long-term.
 
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Stylizer1

SENSimillanaire
Jun 12, 2009
19,341
3,724
Ottabot City
I don't know specifically about switching to nuclear, but China has been flipping a lot of their energy needs to renewables. And working with the industrial sector and cutting down emissions there. They have a long way to go, but they've pumped billions into it already, and are still putting more money into it every year.

Thing is, politicians and industry in Canada have been hiding behind our small population to do the ole "we're just a blip on the radar, we're doing great!" when we aren't. If the rest of the planet was as wasteful and dirty as Canada, we'd likely be nearly extinct already. And there's another problem...do we think the folks in China and India who are gaining wealth want to throw away their new lifestyle and conserve, then they look over to Canada and see us doing next to nothing? That's the real key here....you're not going to get everyone on board and working towards a common goal if countries like Canada are allowed to just continue as usual but we're asking them to give up their goodies for the common good. That will never work long-term.
China also lies a lot.
 
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