Pre-Game Talk: SENS in St.Louis tonight 8:00pm on TSN

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[JungleBeat]

I'm not saying Hoffman isn't good or we should trade him...but the post you quoted is exactly why people have a hard time liking Hoffman. Hes either very disinterested in the play or very bad at making decisions. He doesn't support his teammates offensively. Instead of getting open for an easy support pass he likes to hide at the other end of the ice making it hard to use him in a play other than a hail Mary pass. This isn't bantam.

Like him or not it doesn’t matter to me. But saying he’s worse than Ryan is just pure stupidity.

 

[Agent Zub]

Kovalev was better than Ryan

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I'm surprised there isn't more emphasis on how bad our goalies have been this year. It's been the driving factor that led to this meltdown and killed the team early on. Anderson had another terrible goal last night and it seems that neither him or Condon can ever follow up a quality game with another. 7 million for two guys that can't stop a beach ball this year.

I think it's more that the entire team is so bad, we've been taking turns pointing the finger. I really can't point to any player or unit and say yep, they're playing to their potential this year.

 

[Deku]

just fire them both at this point
if not Boucher also

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I think it's more that the entire team is so bad, we've been taking turns pointing the finger. I really can't point to any player or unit and say yep, they're playing to their potential this year.

There are definitely a lot of factors and at this point the ship is sinking fast & hard, but it seems like the one thing that wasn't any good from the start of the season and any time it looked like we might gain momentum, Andy or Condon came out with another stinker. If we have the goaltending from last year, we're fighting for a playoff spot imo. I'd be interested to see numbers, do we not have the worst goalie duo in the league this year?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

just fire them both at this point
if not Boucher also

Don't ruin the tank at this point. The last thing we need is for someone to come in and we start winning all of a sudden.

 

[jbeck5]

Except he does more than that. There’s not many TRULY lazy players in the league. Hoffman isn’t one.

What do you mean by TRULY lazy?

If you're comparing to Jo schmo the accountant, sure...

But when someone calls a player lazy they mean in comparison to other NHL players.

Some might not call Hoffman lazy...but he is compared to a lot of other NHL players. I would say he's on the lower half of NHL players when it comes to putting in a consistent effort. Just watch other teams. One thing I notice is a lot of our top guys give a one and done effort. Look at the other teams top players and they look like starving Tasmanian devil's compared to ours.

 

[jbeck5]

Like him or not it doesn’t matter to me. But saying he’s worse than Ryan is just pure stupidity.

Good thing I didn't say that or think that... Quoted the wrong person?

 

[JungleBeat]

Good thing I didn't say that or think that... Quoted the wrong person?

Wasn’t directed to you! Apologies.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

What do you mean by TRULY lazy?

If you're comparing to Jo schmo the accountant, sure...

But when someone calls a player lazy they mean in comparison to other NHL players.

Some might not call Hoffman lazy...but he is compared to a lot of other NHL players. I would say he's on the lower half of NHL players when it comes to putting in a consistent effort. Just watch other teams. One thing I notice is a lot of our top guys give a one and done effort. Look at the other teams top players and they look like starving Tasmanian devil's compared to ours.

Look what I wrote. I said truly lazy players in the league. Not lazy human beings.

Lower half of the league. Do you not see how vague that is. It’s such a vague all over the place kinda analysis it’s not even worth talking about. Like “hmm yeah mike Hoffman is between the 65 and 45 percentiles of nhl players in terms of effort.” Who cares. What does that even mean. He goes 100 percent what, .5% less than the people in the percentile above him? The margins on this are so small. It’s silly. This is silly. If he wasn’t producing up to his contracts standards I would be like yeah he needs to do something. But he is for the most part. So yeah. Keep on keeping on hoffy

Lol yeah everyone else forwards are just perfect. Until you go read everyone else’s boards.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I watched some of the game, but not all of it. Pretty boring stuff. Ryan needs to play that way more often then. One game isn’t good enough.

Agree 100%, and I saw his performance as an attempt to lead by example, and just hope some of the other players picked up on it.

If there is no effort, from anyone tonight, they should be held accountable.

 

[jbeck5]

Look what I wrote. I said truly lazy players in the league. Not lazy human beings.

Lower half of the league. Do you not see how vague that is. It’s such a vague all over the place kinda analysis it’s not even worth talking about. Like “hmm yeah mike Hoffman is between the 65 and 45 percentiles of nhl players in terms of effort.” Who cares. What does that even mean. He goes 100 percent what, .5% less than the people in the percentile above him? The margins on this are so small. It’s silly. This is silly. If he wasn’t producing up to his contracts standards I would be like yeah he needs to do something. But he is for the most part. So yeah. Keep on keeping on hoffy

Lol yeah everyone else forwards are just perfect. Until you go read everyone else’s boards.

Lol 5%? That's not accurate at all.

Guys like Crosby or kopitar don't try harder than Hoffman only 5% of the time.

Yes, everyone complains, but when fans complain about their team being lazy but are in the top 5 in shots or goals, you know they're just whining to wine. When ours is bottom 5, we have more reason to complain.

Our top guys don't work as hard as often as other teams top guys. If you can't see that, then you need to watch more hockey that doesn't involve the sens. It's not about identifying what percentage more they try. It's just noticing other teams players don't give up on the play as much or do the whole one and done effort.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Lol 5%? That's not accurate at all.

Guys like Crosby or kopitar don't try harder than Hoffman only 5% of the time.

Yes, everyone complains, but when fans complain about their team being lazy but are in the top 5 in shots or goals, you know they're just whining to wine. When ours is bottom 5, we have more reason to complain.

Our top guys don't work as hard as often as other teams top guys. If you can't see that, then you need to watch more hockey that doesn't involve the sens. It's not about identifying what percentage more they try. It's just noticing other teams players don't give up on the play as much or do the whole one and done effort.

So basically every other team has 6 better forwards (forwards that appear to be working harder) than mike Hoffman?

 

[jbeck5]

So basically every other team has 6 better forwards (forwards that appear to be working harder) than mike Hoffman?

Many do. Yes. Go look at tape of Hoffman's rookie year like I did last week, and you'll be astonished at the difference in the jump in his step. Night and day. You would never see me call that player lazy. I think you can YouTube all his goals from his rookie year and see how much more he is moving his legs and how often he decides to try to beat defenders with speed. They almost don't look like the same player. like at all. Not even close.

 

[God Says No]

Many do. Yes. Go look at tape of Hoffman's rookie year like I did last week, and you'll be astonished at the difference in the jump in his step. Night and day. You would never see me call that player lazy. I think you can YouTube all his goals from his rookie year and see how much more he is moving his legs and how often he decides to try to beat defenders with speed. They almost don't look like the same player. like at all. Not even close.

You are mistaking laziness with aggressiveness. I agree Hoffman used to be more aggressive and used his speed to beat defenders when he was younger. I noticed that as well. But that's not laziness. I believe that is a conscious effort to be more selective when to do it, as 9 out of 10 times if he tried doing the rushes he would lose the puck. Now he tries to have puck possession, which I believe has been engraved in him by coaching. He still does it sometimes, but very selectively.

He still back checks, he still battles on the boards, he still tries to play defense. You can blame him for not being more aggressive, but you can't blame him for being lazy.

 

[jbeck5]

You are mistaking laziness with aggressiveness. I agree Hoffman used to be more aggressive and used his speed to beat defenders when he was younger. I noticed that as well. But that's not laziness. I believe that is a conscious effort to be more selective when to do it, as 9 out of 10 times if he tried doing the rushes he would lose the puck. Now he tries to have puck possession, which I believe has been engraved in him by coaching. He still does it sometimes, but very selectively.

He still back checks, he still battles on the boards, he still tries to play defense. You can blame him for not being more aggressive, but you can't blame him for being lazy.

I can see what you mean for sure.

Maybe lazy isn't the best word. There's a word for "lacking aggression" that would suit him very much.

I slightly disagree with the numbers and his thinking. I wouldn't say he lost the puck 9 times out of 10 when he tried to use speed to beat a defender. I actually saw a lot more dangerous scoring chances from him doing that.

If he's on a 1 on 2 with 4 senators back, why not turn on the Jets and try to get a good shot off?

Give him a 1 on 2 in his rookie year and he goes for the breakaway or slot shot. Give it to him now and he dumps it and changes.

If there's any time to try to speed by the defender, it's when your whole team is behind you in case you lose the puck.

To add, I think he's a great skater who used to go more north south before and now does more east west. He still shows off his superior skating by going back and forth around guys in the offensive zone or doing a spinorama in the neutral zone, but I don't see as much straight ahead speed that gets him into prime scoring chances. I feel like him speeding into the slot and unleashing a cannon was something he did several times a game and now only does here and there.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

I think part of Hoffman’s transition to east-west is the lack of a good transition from the backend. It’s seriously Karlsson or Hoffman carrying the puck through the neutral and offensive zone some nights. He can’t just run up the ice like he used to when he’s the one setting up the entry and looking to make a pass after shifting around to gain the zone. If he were to be the one receiving with speed at the line, then that East-West mentality of trying to open up space at the line would disappear.

He needs a backend that can open up the space for him in transition by skating with speed, or with a stretch pass, so he can then work his magic at finding the soft spot, and hit the line with speed. The current transition is too slow, methodical, and lacks the personnel to make those kind of plays. Setting up the zone exit takes too long, and the degree of safety being used on the breakout takes away from its dynamism.

Aggressive play is definitely another thing he lacks. If he were more of a puckhound, he’d be a star. His stick is still very active, and he’s good at takeaways, but he just doesn’t engage the puck carrier with... much aggression. I can’t really think of a better word.

Lots of skilled players - especially fast ones - look like they are being lazy because they are making reads, and are fast enough skaters where they don’t have to keep the legs moving. It looks like they turned off the engine when they’ve really just put it in idle, and are watching the play for their opportunity.

Skating back and forth trying to maintain coverage while a battle is happening along the board isn’t something he does (which is aggravating to watch), but then I think about it, and it’s not really the wrong play even though it irks me. He’s looking to pick his spot and make the clean poke check to grab the puck and start the transition. It comes across as lacking aggression (and it actually is), but his calmness usually produces the same results in the end.

I hope it’s okay if I post over here (I promise I’ll be civil). I watch a lot of Sens games and you guys are my favorite team from the East. I tend to post a lot of words - sorry if that annoys anyone.

 

[Tuna99]

You obviously did not watch last night's game.

Ryan was probably the most noticeable Ottawa forward on the ice. He was fore checking, back checking and was hitting more than every other Senator, except Boro.

He was probably the fastest skating Senator forward out there last night, in the second game of a back to back games on the road.

Is this for real? He lost every single puck battle he got into.

This season have you ever seen Bobby Ryan just push a player out of the way, just shove someone away from the space he wants? Passive isntthe right word, Ryan plays hockey with a defeatist attitude.

Is anyone else sick of watching a Ryan in traffic and every time he bumps another players leg or arm it looks like he's been hit with a baseball bat - he acts it off like 'he tried to trip me' or 'oops I didn't see that guy there' but in reality it's just the mentality of a weak player who doesn't just make media excuses he also has body language excuses and wakes up making excuses.

 

[Alex1234]

Is this for real? He lost every single puck battle he got into.

This season have you ever seen Bobby Ryan just push a player out of the way, just shove someone away from the space he wants? Passive isntthe right word, Ryan plays hockey with a defeatist attitude.

Is anyone else sick of watching a Ryan in traffic and every time he bumps another players leg or arm it looks like he's been hit with a baseball bat - he acts it off like 'he tried to trip me' or 'oops I didn't see that guy there' but in reality it's just the mentality of a weak player who doesn't just make media excuses he also has body language excuses and wakes up making excuses.

This

 

[Langdon Alger]

This team needs more guys who work hard every shift like Alfie, Fisher and Neil did.

 

[BatherSeason]

Our top guys don't work as hard as often as other teams top guys. If you can't see that, then you need to watch more hockey that doesn't involve the sens. It's not about identifying what percentage more they try. It's just noticing other teams players don't give up on the play as much or do the whole one and done effort.

Coaching, coaching, coaching. The players are playing a system that makes it look like they don't care offensively. Newsflash, the system is broken.

Maybe lazy isn't the best word. There's a word for "lacking aggression" that would suit him very much.

The whole team lacks aggression. The fact that Hoffman and EK are the ones that get singled out every game is whats lazy.