Pre-Game Talk: SENS in St.Louis tonight 8:00pm on TSN

[Joeyjoejoe]

"I agree that he scores goals but he doesn't do things that make this team win games"

The f*** am I reading.

 

[Korpse]

"I agree that he scores goals but he doesn't do things that make this team win games"

The **** am I reading.

You gotta do more than just score goals, not that he's been doing a lot of that either lately. Hoffman's a good goal scorer but he should be a much better goal scorer. He never will be though because he isn't willing to do the little things. A replacement may not score 30 goals, but you give the right guys same opportunities, they will come close.

I ask myself the bolded a lot. Half the board can't tell you the difference between weak side and strong side.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

I'm starting to think that this team is not under performing much. Maybe this is closer to what they really are and last year was an aberration.

Well we are likely a bubble wildcard team, give or take a few spots.
Last year Andy and Condi were playing super well and 65 was godmode in the playoffs.
So we overachieved.
We're not 29th bad but we're probably 14-22 in the league, so mediocre.

 

[solidprospect]

Bring on the Bruins.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Not saying Hoffman's offense doesn't help win games, but to me he's not actively trying to do the things that will help you win games. This is a player who will try and swat down a rim rather than get his ass against the boards and stop that puck. It's only because that puck is gonna end up in his feet and he's going to have to take a hit. It's selfish.

He definitely shys away from contact in season games. But who cares ? He’s a super slight guy. It’s not his strength. People help in their own ways. His is producing.

 

[God Says No]

You gotta do more than just score goals, not that he's been doing a lot of that either lately. Hoffman's a good goal scorer but he should be a much better goal scorer. He never will be though because he isn't willing to do the little things. A replacement may not score 30 goals, but you give the right guys same opportunities, they will come close.

I ask myself the bolded a lot. Half the board can't tell you the difference between weak side and strong side.

I don't think so. That's a fallacy. It's hard to score in this league. If you have a consistent scorer, he is worth his weight in gold. A replacement can maybe score you a season or two (if he gets lucky) 27+ goals, but 9 out 10 times he won't.

 

[ZekeA]

"FolignoQuantumLeap":

I never liked Ryan always looked at him as being too slow and too weak...... Slow on his skates often injured...... Never was in favor of the huge contract he received....

Add to that he supports the Orange Oaf no hope for him in my eyes ever~~~!!!!!!

 

[DrEasy]

He definitely shys away from contact in season games. But who cares ? He’s a super slight guy. It’s not his strength. People help in their own ways. His is producing.

Exactly. He wasn't a problem last year, what changed? Suddenly he decides "not to help the team win"? That's just psycho-babble.

It's the coach's job to use his assets the best possible way, surround Hoff with people who can complement his talent. Whatever happened to the PP goals he used to score from the Hoffice last year? Why isn't he playing there anymore, and been asked to aimlessly zigzag around the ice instead? That's on the coach.

It's also on the GM to provide said assets to the coach.

 

[Langdon Alger]

You gotta do more than just score goals, not that he's been doing a lot of that either lately. Hoffman's a good goal scorer but he should be a much better goal scorer. He never will be though because he isn't willing to do the little things. A replacement may not score 30 goals, but you give the right guys same opportunities, they will come close.

I ask myself the bolded a lot. Half the board can't tell you the difference between weak side and strong side.

I see what you’re saying about Hoffman. Good player, score goals, but won’t pay the price and do the little things to help. I get that. What I don’t get is why you have such a high opinion of Ryan. A guy who had been called out of shape at times. A guy that for me doesn’t always work hard. Sometimes he does. We all know about his hand issues and lack of production, but let’s focus on effort here.

Fisher and Neil worked their asses off. Every shift. Does Ryan do that? I don’t think he does. There are times I hardly notice him. If he had a consistent work effort every game, I’d agree with you. I don’t see that though.

 

[Langdon Alger]

"FolignoQuantumLeap":

I never liked Ryan always looked at him as being too slow and too weak...... Slow on his skates often injured...... Never was in favor of the huge contract he received....

Add to that he supports the Orange Oaf no hope for him in my eyes ever~~~!!!!!!

Lol orange oaf. Nice one Zeke.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Well, I'll give him that much, Boro knows what to say to the media. In fact, most of the players had good post-game interviews tonight. Seems like they're finally coming to the same realization that we've had for the last few months, and they know how bad they are. Even Boucher seemed a little less in denial!

 

[Adele Dazeem]

So Craig Anderson was magically gonna peak as he gets older and older!?

Who said anything about peaking?

 

[Daffy]

I don’t give a **** about who he supports as long as he plays well. He isn’t, so I’m more concerned about that.

Exactly. Who cares who he supports. Not like there was a better choice. They both sucked. We need Ryan from the playoffs. All year long. Lets hope it happens because we're stuck with him.

 

[Korpse]

I don't think so. That's a fallacy. It's hard to score in this league. If you have a consistent scorer, he is worth his weight in gold. A replacement can maybe score you a season or two (if he gets lucky) 27+ goals, but 9 out 10 times he won't.

I don't think it is a fallacy. It is hard to score but I think if you have the right players and it becomes a lot easier. Jut look at William Karlsson and Erik Haula two guys thought as expendable depth players who are having terrific seasons playing a more prominent role. I big part of the reason I like Ryan is because I see him doing things that make it easier for his teammates, but I watch Hoffman and most nights its the complete opposite.

Exactly. He wasn't a problem last year, what changed? Suddenly he decides "not to help the team win"? That's just psycho-babble.

It's the coach's job to use his assets the best possible way, surround Hoff with people who can complement his talent. Whatever happened to the PP goals he used to score from the Hoffice last year? Why isn't he playing there anymore, and been asked to aimlessly zigzag around the ice instead? That's on the coach.

It's also on the GM to provide said assets to the coach.

Trust me I've always had my issues with Hoffman, the frustration though has recached a new high. He is supposed to be one of the players who can get you out of slumps like these, instead he has tucked his tail between his legs and ran the other way.

You are seriously asking why they have tried something new on the PP. They feed Hoffman from that spot for months, it stopped working well before they gave up on it.

I see what you’re saying about Hoffman. Good player, score goals, but won’t pay the price and do the little things to help. I get that. What I don’t get is why you have such a high opinion of Ryan. A guy who had been called out of shape at times. A guy that for me doesn’t always work hard. Sometimes he does. We all know about his hand issues and lack of production, but let’s focus on effort here.

Fisher and Neil worked their asses off. Every shift. Does Ryan do that? I don’t think he does. There are times I hardly notice him. If he had a consistent work effort every game, I’d agree with you. I don’t see that though.

When was the last time Bobby Ryan's shape was questioned and I'm not talking about someone speculating he is out shape, around here or on TSN 1200. When was his conditioning legitimately questioned. Bobby Ryan definitely isn't the fleetest of foot and I can see how some may his question his effort as a result of it but he's a guy who's always gonna battle. He's going to fight through checks, he's going to dig the puck out in a battle, he's going to come across the ice and support his teammates. Against teams that are quicker he may not always be effective but you don't have to worry about his effort.

On top of that he's still very skilled and I'm not just talking about shooting and passing. You won't find a player on this team who is better at taking the puck off the boards and putting it on a teammates stick. His hand injuries are really unfortunate because he is a great player when he is able to be.

 

[Cloud]

Trust me I've always had my issues with Hoffman, the frustration though has recached a new high. He is supposed to be one of the players who can get you out of slumps like these, instead he has tucked his tail between his legs and ran the other way.

Keep in mind Hoff's been in trade rumors for over the past month....that's probably effecting his play and attitude at least somewhat.

 

[Korpse]

Keep in mind Hoff's been in trade rumors for over the past month....that's probably effecting his play and attitude at least somewhat.

And his play is partially responsible for that. There’s no reason a player with his skill set can’t be as valuable as a mark stone but he’s not even close to the same level.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Here’s a write-up I did of most of Hoffman’s shifts from this game. I wrote it up for the Blues board since many are skeptical about Hoffman outside of his offense, and I watch a lot of Sens games.

I thought you guys might be interested in seeing it, since the conversation around here seems to be about Hoffman’s non-shooting skills. Sorry it’s such a word salad.

Spoiler: 1st Period

Hoffman started his first shift with a good backcheck stick check to make Barbashev’s shot go wide.

On a different shift, Hoffman had a good forecheck where he stole the puck from behind the net, and then later worked his way toward the net to receive.

He also drove the net and had two good shots (one was a broken stick one-timer) during the remainder of the period.

It is apparent that his speed alone is something we sorely lack, and an asset that he uses well on both sides of the puck.

Spoiler: 2nd Period

Hoffman began his 2nd with a good zone entry, skating past our neutral zone defense after carrying the puck from his own end.

Then Ottawa went on a 4 minute PP, and Hoffman used his speed to get on the backcheck when a shot was blocked and went the other way. He also stole the puck back from Schenn from behind the net after a turnover in OTT’s zone during transition. On the final minutes of the PP, Hoffman helped get the puck out of trouble a couple of times while the Blues were excellent in the neutral zone on the PK.

He then played aggressively along the boards, pressuring the puck carrier to the point on the following attack by the Blues at even strength, and helped force a clear. He later entered the zone with speed from a pass from the defense, but ran out of room with no options.

On a later shift, he used his stick along the board in the neutral zone to take the puck under pressure from two defenders, and then made a good pass to get back into the OZ.

Hoffman used his speed again to get on the backcheck, and prevented a shot with his stickwork. He then used his speed to lead the transition after receiving a pass and entered the zone cleanly, but his drop pass failed.

Hoffman had a good read as the third forward along the boards on the forecheck, and pressured the breakout. He then got a pick-up in the neutral zone to send the play the other way and get an odd-man rush.

The Blues were very good defensively though two periods; Ottawa only got 8 shots on goal in the second. Hoffman was a big reason they even got that many.

Spoiler: 3rd Period

Hoffman had a good read in the D-zone to catch a pass up the wall with his speed and get the puck out to the neutral zone before he was stopped by the Bortuzzo’s excellent gap closure (he was doing this all game).

Hoffman beat out an icing by Karlsson, fought against Petro, and took a hit down low shortly after. After the Blues had the puck securely with two defensemen on the wrong side, both sides changed, and Hoffman was the last forward to get to leave the Blue’s zone. He didn’t aggressively pressure the puck carrier during this time, but instead stood by and then skated to the bench. I included that for the sake of objectivity - however this is hardly an error or deficiency on his part.

A minute later, Scotty caused a bunch of havoc up front on the Tarasenko goal - love that guy.

Hoffman off the faceoff got very physical and backchecked Steen down the ice on the quick transition. Then the hit from Chabot on Petro happened (Hoffman was backing up the predicted turnover along the wall).

Our PP could really use a player that can accelerate and dangle at the line on entries.

After the PP, Hoffman jumped on the ice and found quiet ice on a quick transition by Ryan, and got a shot on net (one of four of the period at that point).

Hoffman later tried to get the puck out of the D-zone and got it picked, but immediately got a second opportunity and carried it up ice into the Blues’ zone, dangling at the line with speeed until he ran out of real estate when two Blues defenders collapsed on top of him.

On a later shift, Hoffman aggressively pressured the breakout in the NZ, eventually forcing a turnover.

Following a line change and a draw, the Blues then went on the 5v6 with an Ottawa empty net, and Brayden Schenn scored.

Hoffman’s next shift was on the PP after the Jaskin penalty, and made a good read on the cycle to keep the play alive and worked it back to the point for a shot while he went to the slot to cleanup a rebound.

Hoffman drew a defenseman on the next play along the boards, turned to an open passing lane and found the point man, setting himself up with quiet ice for a one-timer that just beat a sliding Bortuzzo but not Hutton. That pretty much concluded the 3rd.

.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Certain kind of players you want on a hockey team. Bobby Ryan is one of them, Mike Hoffman is not.

Watch Ryan a little closer. He goes into the corners, then give a half-hearted shove. He'll "chase" a guy he has no hope in hell of catching, then fall on purpose to make it look like he's giving a superhuman effort. Dude is using classic beerleague tactics to make it look at a glance like he is trying super hard, when he isn't.

Hoffman does have a lot of lazy brainfarts, and the reason you notice it is because he isn't faking the superhero faller routine Bobby does.

Bottom line, we won't really win with either of these guys are our main weapons.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I afraid the Sens will become the Arizona Coyotes of the East, until Melnyk sells the team

Yep. Even if he's still owner in Lebreton, he'll do the same thing there as in Kanata...take the profits and put them into his own pocket while running a shoestring budget and crying poor.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Wait why exactly is Hoffman being excused for his play? Isn’t his job out there to go score some goals?

 

[Handles1919]

Wait why exactly is Hoffman being excused for his play? Isn’t his job out there to go score some goals?

well hes 3rd on team in goals and points, so hes not doing a complete missing person report like everyone else not named stone or dazingle

his shooting percentage of 8% has some to do with it seeing his career hes a 12.5% guy

 

[Alex1234]

And his play is partially responsible for that. There’s no reason a player with his skill set can’t be as valuable as a mark stone but he’s not even close to the same level.

Applies perfectly to Ryan imo

 

[Larionov]

Its going to be a long few months

God, is it ever. Ten more weeks of this? Ugh. The worst part is that we will likely be unable to part with our veteran baggage at the deadline because almost none of them are on expiring deals and there is zero chance that Eugene will green light a deal where we retain salary.

There's never just one reason why your team is struggling - it's always a combination of factors. For us, we have a number of key veterans underachieving and having off years all at the same time. It obviously starts with Karlsson and Anderson, but it continues on to Ceci, Phaneuf, Hoffman, Ryan, Smith, Pageau, and Brassard. Thompson has been a bust, and neither Burrows or Oduya can play in the NHL anymore. We have precisely two guys meeting or exceeding expectations - Stone and Dzingel. You could potentially add Boro in there if he keeps playing as well as he has since his return, but he's been out with injury for a large chunk of the year.

The only hope that fuels me is that teams and players can bounce back from bad years. Look around the NHL now - Colorado reeled off ten straight after barely winning more than ten games all of last year. MacKinnon has blossomed, their goaltending is no longer a tire fire, etc. It's not like Colorado made wholesale changes either - in a league with guaranteed contracts and a cap, that's an almost impossible task anyway. All we can do is smile, suck it up, and hope for better days.

Like you say, long few months. When do the Jays start again? ;-)

 

[jbeck5]

No one said they were a bottom feeder. I'm saying last year was an aberration which it was.

Wouldn't their record indicate that that's exactly what they are?

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Since day 1. He might be the least selfish player on this team, comes to the rink every night and does everything you can ask of him. They had a shift together starting at 15:45 in the 3rd, good example of what I'm talking about with both players.

Ryan comes across the ice to support the breakout, crosses centre ice and is kept to the outside, gains the zone while fending on two checkers. Meanwhile Hoffman is 80 feet across the ice just waiting from Ryan to get him the puck. Ryan has one play to put the puck around the boards behind the net to the opposite corner. Hoffman stands there with his dick in his hand until the puck is already behind the net and doesn't even get within 10 feet of the third blues player. The guy is waiting for an 80 foot backhand pass, you'll be waiting all ****ing day for that.

Play continues down the ice towards to Ottawa's end because Hoffman couldn't apply any pressure to Edmundson. Blues get the puck deep, Chabot sends it up to wall to Ryan who can't control the puck because as he fights off a blue. Puck squirts to Blues defensemen who attempts a shot but Ryan gets a stick on it. Puck lands next to Sbokotka who fires it on net. Karlsson picks its up in the corner. Throws a hail marry to Hoffman who is first to the puck in the corner but he is so far ahead of the play he has no support, rather than taking contact and letting support arrive he throws it up the wall and jumps out of the way of potential contact. Blues are first to the puck but Chabot is able to hold the zone. Puck goes to Hoffman who surprisingly rolls of contact to get the puck but is immediately closed off and looses the puck. Brassard regains possession, puck ends up at the point. Chabot tries to throw one across the ice but no senators are there. Hoffman now dead tired, glides infront of the blues crease as the blues gain control in the corner, puck starts to move up ice, white forces a reverse back into the corner. Hoffman turns around continues gliding with on an attempted forecheck with his stick at his waist as the Blues make a pass infront of him to the weak side for an easy zone exit. Hoffman glides off the ice.

It's a constant theme. Hoffman has all the talent but couldn't give a **** about the winning a hockey game.

I thought Ryan played one of his best games, of the season, last night. First in on the fore-check, delivered a number of hits and back-checked well too.

Ryan showed that he gives a merde, last night.