Prospect Info: Senators Prospect Talk 2014-2015 Part I

[Savitar]

Tobias Lindberg pots his 24th goal of the season

 

[starling]

Final score was 12-0 which only makes SDC's skill level look higher. You can't equate what a player does in Russia to what he might do in the NHL. Apples and oranges.

Sam

It was the first time in the history of KHL one team scored 12 goals. It's not like they do that every other game.

 

[Johnny Hanson]

It was the first time in the history of KHL one team scored 12 goals. It's not like they do that every other game.

The first time in its illustrious 6 year history

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Well, Giordano and Brodie are both LHD, so clearly it can work having a guy play their off-side.

I also think that Boro and Gryba play the same role, it's just that Boro does it a bit better. So, Boro makes Gryba's only hold on his roster spot the fact that he plays the right side. Wideman is probably the best shot of taking Gryba's spot, but that leaves us with either Wideman or Karlsson playing the PK.

Yeah but giordano and Brodie are super talented. So yeah.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

That is funny considering Spezza was barely ppg in the Swiss A during the lock out. Also Kovalchuck a bonifade NHL superstar is only PPG in the KHL.

There other factors not relevant to vision that make Spezza an NHL star instead of Da Costa ( Size and strength would be a big one). Also Da Costa's vision has looked spectacular at every level he has played at, including the NHL.

All this just points to that fact that you don't just look at a players to production to make judgement on him.

Man it was an exaggeration to push my narrative and agenda.

Da costas vision also never looked soectacular in the NHL.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

He did earn a spot. The last 5 games he played for Ottawa, he was the best forward. Then they sent him down for no reason.

You don't think he's a top 6 forward? Fine ok. You think Ottawa has 13 better forwards than him? Nope that's ridiculous. He's obviously better than Greening and Smith, a blind chipmunk could see it.

Your Da Costa comparables are way off. Greening and Smith, wow

Why are his comparables way off? He had 5 good games in a Sens jersey. So has smith and so has greening.

 

[Savitar]

Lindberg finishes off a solid night with a 2 goal performance! 25 goals 37 assists! 62 points now

 

[Agent Zub]

Man it was an exaggeration to push my narrative and agenda.

Da costas vision also never looked soectacular in the NHL.

That's because you quantify vision as whether or not a player has assists.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

DaCosta's vision was stellar in the short stints we saw it on display. The guy looked like a mini-Spezza.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

DaCosta's vision was stellar in the short stints we saw it on display. The guy looked like a mini-Spezza.

Stellar! Perfect. Good term. Did it look elite? Did it look spectacular? Was it like the vision of an elite 1 A/B/C/D/E/F/G/H/I/J/K center?

No.

 

[Six Assets]

Lindberg finishes off a solid night with a 2 goal performance! 25 goals 37 assists! 62 points now

it helps when the team is stacked

 

[starling]

Stellar! Perfect. Good term. Did it look elite? Did it look spectacular? Was it like the vision of an elite 1 A/B/C/D/E/F/G/H/I/J/K center?

No.

It is. Also, in case you're wondering, Hoffman has elite skating, Stone has elite hands and Konopka has elite faceoff abilities. It doesn't make them elite firstliners though.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

It is. Also, in case you're wondering, Hoffman has elite skating, Stone has elite hands and Konopka has elite faceoff abilities. It doesn't make them elite firstliners though.

No. Stone does not have elite hands. Patrick Kane has elite hands. Would you compare stones hands to Kane's?

Hoffman has elite speed. I wouldn't say elite skating though.

Crosby has elite vision. Joe Thornton elite vision. Would you put da costa in the same sentence in term is vision as those guys? Stroctly talking vision.maybe people just have a looser definition for elite than I do. Elite is elite. It's a special grouping of players.

 

[starling]

No. Stone does not have elite hands. Patrick Kane has elite hands. Would you compare stones hands to Kane's?

Hoffman has elite speed. I wouldn't say elite skating though.

Crosby has elite vision. Joe Thornton elite vision. Would you put da costa in the same sentence in term is vision as those guys? Stroctly talking vision.maybe people just have a looser definition for elite than I do. Elite is elite. It's a special grouping of players.

Hoffman is a better skater than Thornton. OMG, did I just say Hoffman is better than Thornton???

 

[Do Make Say Think]

it helps when the team is stacked

Yes but lots of players don't even manage to take advantage of stacked team

How is he being used? If he's being relied on in a lot of different situations and performing well in them that's what matters the most

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Hoffman is a better skater than Thornton. OMG, did I just say Hoffman is better than Thornton???

Pardon me. I'm not gonna call you any names for not reading my post properly. But re read it.i compared only what you stated.

You said stones hands are elite.

So go through the NHL and look for elite hands. I would say patrick Kane has elite hands. Nathan mackinnon has elite hands. Crosby has elite hands. Malkin has elite hands. I REALIZE YOU ARENT SAYING STONE IS AS GOOD AS THESE PLAYERS. Although I put this in capitals. I think you might come back with it anyway though. But do stones hands measure up to any if those players HANDS. Stricly speaking puck skills here. Leave out everything else. The answer is no. Therefore. His hands are not elite. He's not part of the elite group of puck skills. His hand. (hANDS only) are not elite.

Da costa. You say he has elite vision. Okay. STRuCTLY TALKING VISION. The players with elite vision in the NHL are I would say Crosby. Thornton. Does da costas VISION match up to those guys VISION. Strictly talking vision. Leave out the rest. I know you're not saying da costa is better than those two players. Just VISION. The answer is NO. He's not in the same conversation. In terms f just vision. Therefore his vision is not elite. Because you can't compare his vision. To the vision of the players. Who possess elite vision. Strictly talking VISION.

I can say I'm the fastest runner in the world. But if I'm not as fast as the fastest runners in the world. Or even in the same grouping of like the 10 fastest runners in the world. Then guess what? I'm not he fastest runner in the world!

 

[Xspyrit]

Meh, I don't think it's far fetched to think Da Costa believed he "earned" a one way by paying his dues in the AHL and being career PPG there and with his improved play in every callup as well as his improved play in aspects Murray challenged him (defensive play notably)

Yes but IIRC he was called up to replace an injured player. The Olympic break was a bad timing but I think there wasn't a spot for him when everyone was healthy. I can't see who he could have beaten between Spezza, Turris and Zibanejad.

If he signed 2-way like Hoffman did, he could have had another chance to run away with a spot, particularly now as Smith is injured. But instead of him, it's Pageau that is sticking around.

Well like you then most would think that SDC & a guy like Filatov have much more skill & most here would have taken them over a guy like Stone or even Robinson. Yet as it stands now Stone is an important piece of the team & Robinson seems to have a better shot at making the Sens than either of those guys will ever have. It's not always about skill but which role is most needed on a team to be filled. I'll say it now that when Neil gets moved it will just be a matter of time before the Sens are looking for someone to fill his role.

There's no way I'd take a guy like Da Costa over Stone. Mark is a magician, he makes so many smart plays. He's like Da Costa but built for the NHL. Stone is young and is just scratching the surface. I have said it for a while, that guy is a keeper. But again, I have never see Da Costa plays another position than Center so he was not competing with Stone.

BTW who do you think is the better skilled centre SDC or JGP? IMO SDC seemed to have much more skill & yet JGP is playing in Ottawa & SDC in the KHL. Potential skill mean nothing, just like lighting it up in the AHL doesn't mean much. There are thousands of cases of guys having great AHL careers that never make it to the NHL, Ottawa has had many examples. My point is that I picked the guys who I thought had the best chance of making it to the NHL because the guys that I doubt will make it to the NHL are irrelevant. My point is that some players have more options in that they can play a role on various lines while a guy like Prince needs to play on the top 2 lines to be successful & there is a lineup of guys ahead of him on the top lines. That may not be important for most when evaluating a player but I think it is unless someone gets traded & we don't see very many trades any more.

SDC is more skilled offensively but JGP is more tenacious, has better skating and is much more aware defensively. He is also more physical (size doesn't always matter) and not scared of anything.

I understand why you did that and your predictions are your predictions, It's ok if we have different ones... But the problem is not keeping the same HF "consensus" when making those lists... If anyone comes up with their own criterias, how could we ever compare our lists?

Note : I think Prince could play as a 3rd line LW as well, doesn't need to be on the top 2 lines. Seems to be pretty good defensively too and has very good skating.

I don't think Wideman will ever play in Ottawa because he has Karlsson & Ceci ahead of him as PMD & even though he is more skilled than Gryba I doubt they will move Gryba to let an offensive PMD like Wideman play 6th D traditionally saved for defensive defencemen who can also play the PK. Prince is skilled but IMO has very little chance of making it to Ottawa because not only does he have the LWers in Ottawa ahead of him IMO he has Puempel & potentially Paul could very easily be rated higher than him by the organization. I could be wrong but I think it is a similar point to what Kickabrat was making about who should be called up which isn't always the most skilled or who the fans think should be called up by who the organization wants at that time. Anyway, I hope the best for Prince & that he does make the NHL.

Yes that's a goof point for the PK. Unfortunately for Wideman, the problem seems to be that Karlsson and Ceci also plays the right side. Would be weird to have our 3 most offensively skilled D-men (save Wiercioch) on the right side...

And I agree for Prince. Puempel and Paul will have the same problem... A lot of depth on the LW. Hoffman and MacArthur, but also Michalek and potentially Legwand, Smith or Lazar, depending on who plays Center.

I take everything I hear from team representatives like Randy Lee with a grain of salt. I have never heard them say that this guy sucks & will never make it to Ottawa. Wideman is a good skater & a right shot but he has two good right shot defencemen ahead of him & I doubt they are going to trade either Karlsson or Ceci since all three play RD.

While you may not like Gryba he is a defensive defenceman & no NHL team has all PMD someone has to play on the PK & clear the front of the net, something Wideman has trouble doing due to size & strength. It's not all about offence, you also have to have some defencemen who can also play defensively. Gryba is lucky because he is a right shot which IMO gives him much more leeway, Ottawa has a glutton of left shot defencemen. The only way I see Wideman playing in Ottawa this yr or next is if Ottawa trades away two or three defencemen, I see Claesson playing in Ottawa before Wideman btw, he's been around here longer.

Claesson has been around longer than Wideman? Well, no.

And of course, guys like Randy Lee won't say negative things about prospects, they will not attack their confidence publicly. But it has more to do with praising IMO. The more a guy gets praised by the organization, the better it looks for him...

The ability that DaCosta has, is that he is able to slow down the game through skill and hockey sense. He reminded me of Alfredsson in that regard. He knew when to keep the puck, he knew when to pass, he knew when to shoot. His visions was absolutely on the same level as Karlsson, Spezza and Alfredsson. Some of his passes and attempted passes were ridiculous that I have only seen the aforementioned players attempt.

The only concern was his size and strength. But I think he put those ideas to rest in his last call up. He was playing FANTASTIC! Significantly better than Hoffman, and probably one of the best players on our team through that stretch.

Despite that he gets sent down, no call up, has dominant World Championships, has KHL offering mega moolah, but can't get a one way ( doesn't Mark freaking Borowiecki have a one way?). I just hope bridges aren't burnt and he gets a fair shake at training camp next year.

Zibanejad
Da Costa
Turris
Pageau.

So now Da Costa is better than Turris?

His visions was absolutely on the same level as Karlsson, Spezza and Alfredsson?

And what does Borowiecki getting a 1-way has anything to do with Da Costa?

As for DaCosta's abilty even his detractors haveto admit its weird sending a guy down after 4 points in 5 games. He showed far more then Hoffman in his brief stint and even looked better then Pageau although in a different role. Fact is he would have given us a good options and he wasnt given a fair opportunity to show his skills wouldnt translate. Theres no risk in giving DaCosta a one year 900k one way contract to prove himself. It would hardly be as burdening as greening.

Again, nothing weird... there was a 2 weeks Olympic break... Let's stop omitting simple facts, it makes the discussion erroneous

Like you said, different role than Pageau, so why mention him?

And Hoffman plays LW so hard to compare him as well.

Da Costa is fighting with Turris and Zibanejad for offensive Center roles. Those 2 are just clearly better and will have a long fruitful career in the NHL while I am not sure for Da Costa, even if he is a fellow countryman and I'm a big fan. He actually reminds of Peter Regin, a bit more creativity offensively but not on the same level defensively. AND Regin was not able to stick in the NHL in the end... I know it's hard to see for the majority of fans (and I'd include myself in that), but some players are just not made for the NHL. If it was only on skill level, Filatov, Da Costa, Regin and Petersson would all be in the NHL to stay.

Now, Legwand, Smith and Pageau (and Lazar) are other guys that plays Center. If Ottawa transitions with 3 offensive lines, now there might b a spot for Da Costa.

I'd like to see that next year :

Hoffman-Zibanejad-Ryan
MacArthur-Turris-Stone
Prince-Da Costa-Chiasson
Michalek-Legwand-Pageau
Neil

Condra : traded at the deadline. Very good 4th liner, but Pageau takes his role now : younger, cheaper, more offensive skill and from Gatineau

Smith : no idea what will happen with him but if we can get a decent return for him now, why not do it? He's a decent bottom-6 center (don't like him on wing), but we need to free up some roster spots anyway, too much youth pushing

Finally, for Da Costa it wasn't necessarily about money, but more that the Sens couldn't guarantee him a CENTER SPOT.

 

[Xspyrit]

He did earn a spot. The last 5 games he played for Ottawa, he was the best forward. Then they sent him down for no reason.

You don't think he's a top 6 forward? Fine ok. You think Ottawa has 13 better forwards than him? Nope that's ridiculous. He's obviously better than Greening and Smith, a blind chipmunk could see it.

Your Da Costa comparables are way off. Greening and Smith, wow

Greening plays LW, Da Costa plays C by the way, apples and oranges. And even with Smith who also plays center, still under contract and completely different role and type of player.

Please don't laugh at others posts when it's all you have lol

4 assists in 47 career NHL games for a guy supposedly with vision on the level of Karlsson, Alfredsson and Spezza. Jesus...

Even if Da Costa, Filatov and 2 other unproved very skilled guys were on the team instead of the "garbage players" like Neil, Greening, Smith and Condra.... I can guarantee you that some people would still cry out for lack of skill because the W/L column wouldn't be much different. That's how people understands the game of hockey, well at the NHL level.

When someone says that a player had the same vision that Karlsson, Spezza and Alfredsson have, I'm sure the hell expecting more than 4 assists in 47 games. Regardless of sample size, that's an incredibly poor number for a guy who's supposed to have vision on the level of some of the most elite players this team has ever had.

Not only that, Da Costa is actually older than Erik Karlsson... Let that sink in people

Can't believe I have to diminish one of my favorite players. That's what this board does though. You have to defend a player or do the opposite because the views are extreme and erroneous.

That being said I don't care and hope Da Costa becomes a big part of the team. Hope he is a late bloomer.

Of course, I'm not saying he is complete elite player. But his vision IS on Spezza's level.

Watch these assists and goal from yesterday's game (only scoring plays here). SDC wears #77 and has Radulov on his line instead of Conacher and Condra.
0:45 - slapshot assist of a crossbar
2:02 - takeaway in the OZ and quick pass
3:41 - goal with a nifty fake
6:07 - pass to the open man on the slot from behind the net under pressure
6:36 - perfect cross-ice pass to the trailer.

I've played with guys able to make that kind of plays, but no way they would do that in the NHL. Quality of competition. KHL has many good players but it is still a young and "poor" league with a lot of "fillers". But I know what you're saying, he makes skilled plays consistently. I'm pretty sure the Sens organization are aware of his skill level, they signed him for that as a free college agent for that reason...

Let's hope he comes back. Maybe a trade involving a center could help...

 

[starling]

Say all you want Da Costa is on fiya. Scored 2g 1a today. That's 10 points (5+5) in 3 games this week.

 

[Lenny the Lynx]

Say all you want Da Costa is on fiya. Scored 2g 1a today. That's 10 points (5+5) in 3 games this week.

That is elite level KHL production

 

[Sun God Nika]

omg Da Costa is second in KHL PPG, if we can get this guy, maybe he can convince radulov to come over too.

 

[WhiteLight*]

Greening plays LW, Da Costa plays C by the way, apples and oranges.

Michalek and Condra play both LW and RW. Lazar plays C and RW. Clearly positions is of upmost importance to determine who makes a club

Guys move around the lineup all the time. Are you serious or do you actually not realize this? Wow, just wow

Da Costa would be a good winger imo. Don't know until you try.

And even with Smith who also plays center, still under contract and completely different role and type of player.

Were you not the one that just posted a lineup with SDC, Turris, Z and Legwand?

Well it's nice to know that we should keep guys like Greening, Smith and Neil, despite them not being NHL caliber, just because they're a ''completely different type of player''. Sounds exactly like the type of mentality that got the Sens into this mess (bad spot in the standings) in the first place. Who in their right mind would reject the better player?

 

[Xspyrit]

Since there seems to be a lot of SDC fans now, maybe it's time for me to cash in?

I have a nice 46 Rookie Cards collection of Da Costa

http://s749.photobucket.com/user/Xs... PC Albums/PC Stephane Da Costa?sort=4&page=1

Inbox me if interested, or that will hit the Bay when I'm back to Canada next month

Michalek and Condra play both LW and RW. Lazar plays C and RW. Clearly positions is of upmost importance to determine who makes a club

Guys move around the lineup all the time. Are you serious or do you actually not realize this? Wow, just wow

Da Costa would be a good winger imo. Don't know until you try.

You mean SOME players are able to play more than 1 position? wow just wow.

Well, I've never seen him play another position than Center, but ya I would like him to be able to play Wing because I'm pretty sure he'd make the team then... But something tells me it's wishful thinking. wow just wow

If you don't think than the position of a player is one of the most important factors as to get him a spot on a NHL roster, then I don't know what to say... except wow just wow

Were you not the one that just posted a lineup with SDC, Turris, Z and Legwand?

Well it's nice to know that we should keep guys like Greening, Smith and Neil, despite them not being NHL caliber, just because they're a ''completely different type of player''. Sounds exactly like the type of mentality that got the Sens into this mess (bad spot in the standings) in the first place. Who in their right mind would reject the better player?

Yes... and what's the point?

I didn't have Greening and Smith on my roster and Neil was the 13th forward... while SDC was the 3rd line center... You're being "lost" on purpose right?

I said Smith, or Legwand or even Pageau play very different roles than what would Da Costa do here... unless someone tells me Da Costa is elite defensively and on the PK

I'm pretty sure that's coming

 

[aragorn]

Since there seems to be a lot of SDC fans now, maybe it's time for me to cash in?

I have a nice 46 Rookie Cards collection of Da Costa

http://s749.photobucket.com/user/Xs... PC Albums/PC Stephane Da Costa?sort=4&page=1

Inbox me if interested, or that will hit the Bay when I'm back to Canada next month



You mean SOME players are able to play more than 1 position? wow just wow.

Well, I've never seen him play another position than Center, but ya I would like him to be able to play Wing because I'm pretty sure he'd make the team then... But something tells me it's wishful thinking. wow just wow

If you don't think than the position of a player is one of the most important factors as to get him a spot on a NHL roster, then I don't know what to say... except wow just wow



Yes... and what's the point?

I didn't have Greening and Smith on my roster and Neil was the 13th forward... while SDC was the 3rd line center... You're being "lost" on purpose right?

I said Smith, or Legwand or even Pageau play very different roles than what would Da Costa do here... unless someone tells me Da Costa is elite defensively and on the PK

I'm pretty sure that's coming

Good luck getting rid of those SDC cards, I wonder who would be interested in that but you never know. I don't get this interest in SDC & if he couldn't make the team playing the position he is the best at then what makes people think he could make the team playing a different position he has never played before? It reminds me of how many on here were upset that Conacher got waived & Filatov couldn't make the team either. Sometimes some guys just are not the right fit for a team, while SDC had some skill he also had some deficiencies like keeping his head up while going through the neutral zone, weak on the puck, weak on faceoffs & small & soft. I think the majority here rate offensive skill over everything else while NHL coaches rate the defensive side of the game quite highly as well.

Kessel for example is terrible defensively & a detriment to the team because of it, as was Spezza at times, as is Yakopov, Ovechkin & a lot of other guys. It's one BIG reason why teams with these kinds of players on them want to get rid of them because they don't win championships with self centred players who put themselves ahead of their team. Selfish players who care more about their stats than team stats & team wins.

 

[KnuckChuckinTkachuk]

When SDC was fighting for a spot Spezza was our #1 center and had by far the most skill, so really it was between him Zibby, Smith, Pageau and I guess Turris if you want. Now that Spezza is removed and SDC gained some confidence over in the KHL it wouldnt be crazy to say that if he came over, hed have the best vision, and puck handling skills of all our centers... Imagine the plays he and Bobby would conjure up.