Sean Couturier about to get healthy scratched 34 days after being named the new Flyers' Captain

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

This is why I want Washington and Detroit in the playoffs instead of Philly.

 

[NickyFotiu]

While Penguins are circling the drain and fans are calling fur Sullys dismissal, How many times have we heard coach "Mike Sullivan won two cups".
The fact the team won the cups is assumed.
But I agree in that a lot players may have hated him by his last season in New York. Similar were the players of Pat Burns in Montreal. Keenan on all the teams he coached. ha! Babcock, Sutter.
Bowman was not liked by players in Montreal - "until they got their rings and bonuses cheques" as Steve Shutt never get tired of saying. lol
All those coaches won Cups.
I hear all the players loved Boudreau and the Leafs all love Keefe. Two coaches who haven't come close to sniffing a cup.
Point is ......coaching in the NHL ain't a popularity contest.

If you like him then enjoy him.

 

[PaulD]

If you like him then enjoy him.

I don't know him.
He is a good coach in the NHL. But disliking his style or personality doesn't change that.

 

[ItWasJustified]

Torts is such a weird coach. He comes across as such a hardass, but then stories come out of his charity work and going the extra mile for his players if they have shit going on in their personal lives. And then he goes and plays mindgames like this.

I'll never understand him.

Why is it mindgames when it comes to a supposed top player and just and ordinary hockey decision when it comes to 4th line scrubs? It's not as if top players can't have long stretches of playing bad.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Idiotic comment. Dude was a 70-75 pt 1C and in the running again for the Selke before his back surgeries. He’s been away almost two years before getting back and pacing for over 50+ pts again before likely another injury since January.

I never undertsood the hype of Couturier. He's just a more expensive version of Phil Danault. Who I'd rather have Danault.

 

[Winston Wolf]

Why is it mindgames when it comes to a supposed top player and just and ordinary hockey decision when it comes to 4th line scrubs? It's not as if top players can't have long stretches of playing bad.

He named him captain out of the blue, then immediately cut his ice time the first game and stapled him to Deslauriers on the 4th line (and people are posting his statline for the last 15 games and surprised he's not producing.) Then healthy scratched him without so much as having a conversation with him.

Yep, totally normal behavior here. Definitely not typical Tortorella ego driven mind games at all.

Couturier missed a year and a half, then missed a few games in January with an injury that is still not healed. Tortorella has been riding Couturier all damn year and his play has definitely slipped, but he's definitely not dogging it and he's still one of their best players right now. This is a shit way to treat people, which is why Tortorella is always the coach that players would least like to play for in players' polls.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

He named him captain out of the blue, then immediately cut his ice time the first game and stapled him to Deslauriers on the 4th line (and people are posting his statline for the last 15 games and surprised he's not producing.) Then healthy scratched him without so much as having a conversation with him.

Yep, totally normal behavior here. Definitely not typical Tortorella ego driven mind games at all.

Couturier missed a year and a half, then missed a few games in January with an injury that is still not healed. Tortorella has been riding Couturier all damn year and his play has definitely slipped, but he's definitely not dogging it and he's still one of their best players right now. This is a shit way to treat people, which is why Tortorella is always the coach that players would least like to play for in players' polls.

Didn't Torts ride Sanheim all last year? This year Sanheim stepped up.

 

[Winston Wolf]

Didn't Torts ride Sanheim all last year? This year Sanheim stepped up.

I'm saying he's been playing Couturier 20+ minutes a night all season.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

I'm saying he's been playing Couturier 20+ minutes a night all season.

Yeah, load management should have been considered.

 

[LudwigVonKarlsson]

Torts is such a weird coach. He comes across as such a hardass, but then stories come out of his charity work and going the extra mile for his players if they have shit going on in their personal lives. And then he goes and plays mindgames like this.

I'll never understand him.

Mindgames = accountability? It's almost like people can be multi faceted and have different personas depending if they are at home, at work, and or with their friends. I don't know why torts gets so much hate from a website full of people who have never even played hockey when its clear that

1)Hes a good person
2)He gets the most out of extremely medicore rosters
3)Has a cup

 

[joestevens29]

This is why I want Washington and Detroit in the playoffs instead of Philly.

I want Philly there, just for the post-game Torts interviews

 

[chaz4hockey]

Is he playing tonight?

 

[abo9]

Soooo.... Flyers won against Toronto without Couturier, Atkinson in the lineup.

Doesnt "prove" anything, but definitely suggest that the Flyers have the luxury to bench them. I dont think he'll bench giys like Tippett, Konecny lol

I never undertsood the hype of Couturier. He's just a more expensive version of Phil Danault. Who I'd rather have Danault.

I mean, peak Couturier was a top 30-35 offensive player as well as a rock defensively. Danault peaked at 100th rank offensively in 2018-19.

Woukd I take Couturier today? No. But the hype is based on his peak, not his post injury self

 

[Peasy]

Is he playing tonight?

No scratched again

 

[red devil]

Friedman on the Jeff Marek show during his segment got a text that knows Tortorella fairly well and to summarize he said don't draw conclusions from the morning skate on the lineup for tonight, that he has done this before where he can play mind games with the media.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Soooo.... Flyers won against Toronto without Couturier, Atkinson in the lineup.

Atkinson had a good October and November, 14 points in 21 games. He has 14 points in the 42 games since and has looked like 4th line garbage most nights. He's been a healthy scratch a few times and not really part of the Flyers' modest success this season.

The thing that gets dicey with Couturier is...he himself expressed frustration at the treatment and his agent has now done the same in the press. He's your recently-named captain and still has on-ice value if used correctly (he's realistically a ~45 point shutdown 3C these days), but given his contract and injury history he's borderline untradeable. So souring that relationship in pursuit of a meaningless first round exit seems like it could be a pretty f***ing stupid episode in the big picture.

 

[abo9]

Atkinson had a good October and November, 14 points in 21 games. He has 14 points in the 42 games since and has looked like 4th line garbage most nights. He's been a healthy scratch a few times and not really part of the Flyers' modest success this season.

The thing that gets dicey with Couturier is...he himself expressed frustration at the treatment and his agent has now done the same in the press. He's your recently-named captain and still has on-ice value if used correctly (he's realistically a ~45 point shutdown 3C these days), but given his contract and injury history he's borderline untradeable. So souring that relationship in pursuit of a meaningless first round exit seems like it could be a pretty f***ing stupid episode in the big picture.

Yeah the Couturier part is.... strange for sure. Makes you wonder what really is going on behind closed doors.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Atkinson had a good October and November, 14 points in 21 games. He has 14 points in the 42 games since and has looked like 4th line garbage most nights. He's been a healthy scratch a few times and not really part of the Flyers' modest success this season.

The thing that gets dicey with Couturier is...he himself expressed frustration at the treatment and his agent has now done the same in the press. He's your recently-named captain and still has on-ice value if used correctly (he's realistically a ~45 point shutdown 3C these days), but given his contract and injury history he's borderline untradeable. So souring that relationship in pursuit of a meaningless first round exit seems like it could be a pretty f***ing stupid episode in the big picture.

Agreed. Saying this is about accountability is oversimplifying the situation.

Why give a guy the C when you're already cutting his ice time and apparently aren't even talking to him about it?

It sounds like Torts has talked more to the press than he has his captain. Then of course pulls the classic Tortorella move of getting annoyed at press asking him questions about the controversy he created 1 day ago.

 

[Channelcat]

Maybe the agents should just stop talking. Might be helpful.

 

[Beau Knows]

Friedman on the Jeff Marek show during his segment got a text that knows Tortorella fairly well and to summarize he said don't draw conclusions from the morning skate on the lineup for tonight, that he has done this before where he can play mind games with the media.

The guy's got his captain and his captain's agent publicly expressing frustration with the situation, and he's worried about playing mind games with the media?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

The guy's got his captain and his captain's agent publicly expressing frustration with the situation, and he's worried about playing mind games with the media?

It's one of the many excuses given for Tortorella's behavior that's ultimately about his ego.

"He's drawing attention to himself and taking it off the team. Genius! "
"He's playing mind games with the media. Genius!"

 

[Rich Nixon]

Maybe the agents should just stop talking. Might be helpful.

The agents' job is to serve the interests of the player, so it's not as if he'd be commenting without the player's approval. In this case, I think everyone generally knows the score—that Couturier isn't a guy you can easily trade—so making a stink seems to generally be a warning to the team. "Don't make this hard on all of us, because no matter what you still owe this guy more than fifty million dollars, and you're not going to find someone else to pay that tab for you."

This isn't some like, prima-donna low effort player. Couturier is, by all accounts, an unbelievably dedicated and hard-working player who has battled like hell to be a contributor after missing nearly two full seasons and having two major back surgeries. He's looked slow and worn out for the past month and a half, and his recent demotion in the lineup (which includes carrying f***ing Nic Deslauriers on one wing) has not helped his production.

 

[Curufinwe]

I never undertsood the hype of Couturier. He's just a more expensive version of Phil Danault. Who I'd rather have Danault.

Danult's career high is 54 points and has never got near winning a Selke.

 

[Channelcat]

The agents' job is to serve the interests of the player, so it's not as if he'd be commenting without the player's approval. In this case, I think everyone generally knows the score—that Couturier isn't a guy you can easily trade—so making a stink seems to generally be a warning to the team. "Don't make this hard on all of us, because no matter what you still owe this guy more than fifty million dollars, and you're not going to find someone else to pay that tab for you."

This isn't some like, prima-donna low effort player. Couturier is, by all accounts, an unbelievably dedicated and hard-working player who has battled like hell to be a contributor after missing nearly two full seasons and having two major back surgeries. He's looked slow and worn out for the past month and a half, and his recent demotion in the lineup (which includes carrying f***ing Nic Deslauriers on one wing) has not helped his production.

I admit I haven't been watching the Flyers, but you seem to suggesting that perhaps Couturier needs the rest?

 

[Rich Nixon]

I admit I haven't been watching the Flyers, but you seem to suggesting that perhaps Couturier needs the rest?

I assume you're playing glib because you're one of those Everyone Must Be Wrong But Me and Tuff Hockeyman Torts guys, but:

He needed the rest earlier in the season. Given his situation, they should have been managing his usage all season. Even just maintaining through the grind of an 82 game season would be tough for a guy who had missed nearly 2 years prior. Let alone a guy on the wrong side of 30 who basically had his spine rebuilt.

Prior to the All-Star break, he was averaging nearly 20 minutes (19:57) per night. And he was fresh and effective at that point, so Torts leaned on him like crazy: He played as many as 24+ minutes some games.

Much of this was around the time that Tortorella was scratching Frost—his decision, remember—and so Couturier was being forced to eat a lot of minutes. The Flyers already have bad center depth, and Torts was making that situation even worse by willingly sitting the only other top-6 caliber center option on the team.

All that took its toll, and you could kinda see it happening in real time. Couturier's production and effectiveness dropped steadily. He has always been kinda slow, but looked slower than he used to be at the start of this season, and has looked even slower than that as the season has progressed.

So this is a situation Tortorella created for himself. He made lineup decisions that put more work on Couturier's plate than he should have been given. Rather than easing him back into the game or practicing any type of load management, he leaned on the player with hard minutes in order to secure those all-important early season wins for this so-called rebuilder, and once all that added up he cut his minutes and is now scratching him.