Scandella Trade

[Wildfish]

Getting rid of Pominville was a huge plus. Unfortunate that it cost Scandella but Scandella was way overpaid for a 3rd pairing defenseman, so getting rid of that contract was a plus, too. Foligno adds size and toughness to a roster that desperately needs it. Ennis is a wild card, could be good, could be insignificant but IMO the most important thing was getting rid of Pomminville and his albatross contract. Fact is, it was going to cost to move the dud.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Wild moved mountains to a keep Dumba when the correct choice was letting him go to Vegas.

No it wasn't. You repeatedly saying it was doesn't make it correct.

How about the option we let it play out then decide, remember most people didnt like the Clutterbuck for Nino trade at the time and look how that has turned out.

If Ennis can stay healthy and Foligno builds off of his 13 goal season last year Wild win the trade

Islander fans maybe... I don't recall ever being upset that Clutterbuck was traded. Elite 4th liner with one trick asking for $3m+ for a mishandled top 5 pick that had an excellent season in the AHL and was back on track? Yes please.

 

[hirawl]

I think it's a fine trade. Age, cap hits, term, potential/negative potential taken into account I feel Fletcher did good.

 

[Jugitsu]

I'm personally fine with the trade, on most parts. I'm not thrilled we got Ennis and his cap hit but I am thrilled we were able to dump Pominville's horrible contract.

Scandella IMO had to go. Can't be paying bottom pairing d-man 4 million a season. He's overrated and hasn't really improved this past 3 or 4 seasons. A decent bottom pairing d-man, but that's about it. In the cap era choices have to be made to even things out in both offense and defense.

 

[nickschultzfan]

No it wasn't. You repeatedly saying it was doesn't make it correct.

Nor is that the case with your zombie replies.

Dumba is on Fletcher and his proponents now. Wild paid a 7th overall pick originally, and now Tuch, Scandella, Haula, and essentially Folin to keep Dumba and acquire Foligno, a guy who could be on the 4th line if JEE has a strong camp.

You have made your bet. Dont get upset that people are taking the other side.

 

[57special]

Nor is that the case with your zombie replies.

Dumba is on Fletcher and his proponents now. Wild paid a 7th overall pick originally, and now Tuch, Scandella, Haula, and essentially Folin to keep Dumba and acquire Foligno, a guy who could be on the 4th line if JEE has a strong camp.

You have made your bet. Dont get upset that people are taking the other side.

I'm firmly on the fence with your take on Dumba/LV. What killed the possibility of doing that was was Dumba's low salary vs. Scandella's.

I would rather that Fletcher moved Pominville and retained 2M/yr. than get Ennis at 4.6M back. Scandella could have been moved later in the year.

I find it odd that some of us agreed that Haula had to go because of the raise he would expect(and eventually get), yet we trade for a guy who is of equal value AT BEST, and is expecting to be paid the same money.

My complaint with Fletcher/Scandella trade is that he seemed to be reacting to circumstances, rather than planning ahead and making moves before they were forced upon him. Any kudos due him from the ED draft were automatically negated by the Scandella/Poms trade. Ennis and Foligno are not players any of us were thinking would be good additions before the trade happened. The best we can hope for is a Staal like miracle, but even there I won't be at all surprised if he takes a step or two back this year. And he makes over 1M LESS than Ennis!

 

[Bruce Granville]

I'm firmly on the fence with your take on Dumba/LV. What killed the possibility of doing that was was Dumba's low salary vs. Scandella's.

I would rather that Fletcher moved Pominville and retained 2M/yr. than get Ennis at 4.6M back. Scandella could have been moved later in the year.

I find it odd that some of us agreed that Haula had to go because of the raise he would expect(and eventually get), yet we trade for a guy who is of equal value AT BEST, and is expecting to be paid the same money.

My complaint with Fletcher/Scandella trade is that he seemed to be reacting to circumstances, rather than planning ahead and making moves before they were forced upon him. Any kudos due him from the ED draft were automatically negated by the Scandella/Poms trade. Ennis and Foligno are not players any of us were thinking would be good additions before the trade happened. The best we can hope for is a Staal like miracle, but even there I won't be at all surprised if he takes a step or two back this year. And he makes over 1M LESS than Ennis!

Bravo.
Yes, he ****ed up.
What first looked brillant changed to a big wtf?.
Haula at 3M would be so much better than any Ennis or Foligno.

 

[TaLoN]

I'm firmly on the fence with your take on Dumba/LV. What killed the possibility of doing that was was Dumba's low salary vs. Scandella's.

I would rather that Fletcher moved Pominville and retained 2M/yr. than get Ennis at 4.6M back. Scandella could have been moved later in the year.

I find it odd that some of us agreed that Haula had to go because of the raise he would expect(and eventually get), yet we trade for a guy who is of equal value AT BEST, and is expecting to be paid the same money.

My complaint with Fletcher/Scandella trade is that he seemed to be reacting to circumstances, rather than planning ahead and making moves before they were forced upon him. Any kudos due him from the ED draft were automatically negated by the Scandella/Poms trade. Ennis and Foligno are not players any of us were thinking would be good additions before the trade happened. The best we can hope for is a Staal like miracle, but even there I won't be at all surprised if he takes a step or two back this year. And he makes over 1M LESS than Ennis!

Just something you ate forgetting, not arguing values just one important factor... before the trade a contract like Haula got and Foligno is about to get - the Wild couldn't afford at all in the first place. The cap savings from the trade made it possible.

everything else is up for debate.

 

[Hall of Faber]

Olofsson is better than Scandella and clearing out a vet out of the locker room is a addition by subtraction.

 

[Aurinko]

Season stats for Spurgeon/Suter +33/+34 , Scandella at the bottom with -2.

I think I can live without him.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Nor is that the case with your zombie replies.

Dumba is on Fletcher and his proponents now. Wild paid a 7th overall pick originally, and now Tuch, Scandella, Haula, and essentially Folin to keep Dumba and acquire Foligno, a guy who could be on the 4th line if JEE has a strong camp.

You have made your bet. Dont get upset that people are taking the other side.

I fail to see how the Scandella trade has any connection to Dumba. It was made for cap space of which Dumba takes up minimal, especially for what he provides. Folin is a borderline NHL player. Don't let the emotions get the best of you on him.

Dumba>Haula+Tuch

Not to mention Haula+Tuch wasn't just protecting Dumba but also anyone of importance left over on the team that was unprotected.

I'm not upset at your opinion. Just think it's wrong. Welcome to a discussion board.

 

[nickschultzfan]

Just something you ate forgetting, not arguing values just one important factor... before the trade a contract like Haula got and Foligno is about to get - the Wild couldn't afford at all in the first place. The cap savings from the trade made it possible.

everything else is up for debate.

Cap savings is a matter of perspective.

Choosing Dumba and Quincy over Scandella and Folin saved the Wild less than a million in cap next season and will cost us more starting next summer.

Which we probably used up by bringing in Foligno to play in the bottom 6.

 

[TaLoN]

Cap savings is a matter of perspective.

Choosing Dumba and Quincy over Scandella and Folin saved the Wild less than a million in cap next season and will cost us more starting next summer.

Which we probably used up by bring in Foligno to play in the bottom 6.

Poms to Ennis saved more money as well though.

Also, it wasn't Dumba over Scandella, it's Olofsson over Scandella for the lineup/cap savings. Dumba was going to be here either way.

I fail to see how the Scandella trade has any connection to Dumba. It was made for cap space of which Dumba takes up minimal, especially for what he provides. Folin is a borderline NHL player. Don't let the emotions get the best of you on him.

Dumba>Haula+Tuch

Not to mention Haula+Tuch wasn't just protecting Dumba but also anyone of importance left over on the team that was unprotected.

I'm not upset at your opinion. Just think it's wrong. Welcome to a discussion board.

The Protection list was meaningless for the Wild, the Haula+ Tuch trade was agreed upon before the Wild even submitted the protection list.

We know there were two trades Fletch was real close to pulling the trigger on, one for Scandella, the other for Brodin... then everything went silent, and then we didn't know it but the Wild and Vegas agreed on Haula+Tuch (with us getting a 3rd rounder as well) to make Haula the expansion draft pick, and thus making our entire protection list pointless when it was submitted a day later.

Pretty sure Brodin and Scandella would have both been gone had Vegas not agreed, and Dumba would then have been protected anyway and Vegas would have only gotten Haula. That's how Fletcher got them to deal.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

23 year old Dumba > 27 year old Scandella. We'll see if Haula/Tuch vs. Ennis/Foligno/$1.5m makes up the difference.

 

[TaLoN]

23 year old Dumba < 27 year old Scandella. We'll see if Haula/Tuch vs. Ennis/Foligno/$1.5m makes up the difference.

I disagree with that, as do the stats.

 

[Aurinko]

We know there were two trades Fletch was real close to pulling the trigger on, one for Scandella, the other for Brodin... then everything went silent, and then we didn't know it but the Wild and Vegas agreed on Haula+Tuch (with us getting a 3rd rounder as well) to make Haula the expansion draft pick, and thus making our entire protection list pointless when it was submitted a day later.

Pretty sure Brodin and Scandella would have both been gone had Vegas not agreed, and Dumba would then have been protected anyway and Vegas would have only gotten Haula. That's how Fletcher got them to deal.

Like I said, the Scandella trade was fine.

BUT what goes to Haula, Pominville and Folin trade:

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...aters&minutes=50&disp=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

Haula or Pominville had been highest scoring (points / time) 5v5 guy in three of the last four years. http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?db=201516&sit=5v5&type=individual&teamid=15&pos=skaters&minutes=50&disp=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

I won't even go to SH stats and plusminus, let's just say all three were above team average (especially with the overtime statistics).

 

[Minnesota]

Olofsson is better than Scandella and clearing out a vet out of the locker room is a addition by subtraction.

... What?

...... What?

Disagree with both. Olofsson isn't better than Scandella yet, and getting rid of a vet isn't addition by subtraction.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

I disagree with that, as do the stats.

Even if Dumba is ever-so slightly worse by some metrics than a guy (Scandella) who has four seasons of NHL hockey on him, he outscored him by a wide margin. More ice-time for Dumba in Scandella's absence should mean more goals for the Wild.

I'm not sure what the sources of prejudice are against Dumba but he's a good young hockey player - all defensemen outside of the rare Doughty or Lidstrom types need a few seasons to learn the position. Losing him to Vegas would have been a monumental error.

Olofsson remains to be seen; he and Scandella are pretty similar types, but I think it's a reasonable bet that he can cover the gap.

 

[57special]

... What?

...... What?

Disagree with both. Olofsson isn't better than Scandella yet, and getting rid of a vet isn't addition by subtraction.

Thank you. I was too stunned by that statement to respond. I am optimistic about Olofsson, but he has to actually play some NHL games ....like more than 15 ...like 10 times that....before we have any idea what he might be as a regular.

Wild might not have a need for Scandella, but I'm pretty sure that other teams do, I.e. NJ, MTL. Fletcher got caught, and went back to his usual MO of trading with BUFF, with execrable results. I don't see how this situation wasn't Sussed out WAY ahead of time, and something better wasn't done. And Quincy is adding insult to injury, in the case of Folin.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I disagree with that, as do the stats.

Oops. I put the sign backwards.

 

[Wildfish]

Obviously lots of ways to look at the Scandella trade. Scandella was one of my favorite players, I hated to see him go, but it was his contract that made it necessary for him to go IMO. Bad move to keep a 3rd Pairing Defenseman with 3 more years at $4.0 mil.

Comparing Scandella to Dumba on the ice is a matter of personal opinion but the fact is Dumba has one more year at a reasonable Cap Hit of $2.5 mil and he's 4 1/2 years younger than Scandella. Looking long term, easy to assess more value to Dumba, both in additional years on ice and the top end potential of the two players.

Ennis at a Cap Hit of $4.6 mil for 2 more years or Pomminville at $5.6 for two more years? Also consider actual pay - Pominville at $10 mil, Ennis at $7.3 mil for those 2 years. Have to get bonus money for Fletcher and Boudrau somewhere!

 

[TaLoN]

Oops. I put the sign backwards.

Ok, my faith in you has been restored!

 

[nickschultzfan]

I dont get why Dumba supporters say he is upside is great but he doesnt cost much.

He makes $2.5 million, which is not peanuts, and if he actually produces like people claim than he is going to cost more than Scandella after this season.

And then you have a $4.5 million/year Dman who cannot play defense.

 

[Minnesota]

I dont get why Dumba supporters say he is upside is great but he doesnt cost much.

He makes $2.5 million, which is not peanuts, and if he actually produces like people claim than he is going to cost more than Scandella after this season.

And then you have a $4.5 million/year Dman who cannot play defense.

He's young. Upside is he'll continue to produce upwards of ≈35 points per season while playing defense.

Yes, he might cost more than Scandella, but big picture we kept the better player.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I dont get why Dumba supporters say he is upside is great but he doesnt cost much.

He makes $2.5 million, which is not peanuts, and if he actually produces like people claim than he is going to cost more than Scandella after this season.

And then you have a $4.5 million/year Dman who cannot play defense.

Cause some people like to overblow how bad is defense actually is. $2.5m is a relatively small contract for a top 4 RHD, especially one who is young and puts up 1st pairing production in points.