Scandella Trade

[57special]

So, after the dust has settled, how to you feel about the Scandella/Pominville trade? Good with it, or an opportunity missed?

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[BagHead]

None of these options really fit how I feel about it. I'm in a middle area right now, but I don't feel the trade wasn't important. Guess I'll pick that one anyway, but it just doesn't really fit. I'm sort of reserving my judgement at the moment, until I see everyone play.

 

[Lapa]

I felt the return was really underwhelming.

 

[Bazeek]

None of these options really fit how I feel about it. I'm in a middle area right now, but I don't feel the trade wasn't important. Guess I'll pick that one anyway, but it just doesn't really fit. I'm sort of reserving my judgement at the moment, until I see everyone play.

This is more or less where I'm at. Not that the trade was unimportant, but it's hard to assess the impact right now. We don't know what Nino and Granlund's contracts will look like and we don't know how Foligno and Ennis will work out. So the returns are still largely up in the air.

I would have preferred to see just Scandella moved for futures (decent prospect + a 2nd, or something), but we did shed cap and get a little younger. Whether or not we got better... that's hard to say right now, so I'll reserve judgement.

I'm largely skeptical that it was a "missed opportunity", though. With a flat cap, cap space seems to be at a premium this offseason. There may have been other trade options out there, but I'm willing to bet most of them look about like what we ended up with.

 

[forthewild]

The dust hasn't settled, what does Foligno sign for? That's a wild card, how does Ennis rebound? That's a wild card, still don't like it but that can change next year in a very big way, Ennis pots 50-60 pts that's huge, vs him not doing much. Ask in december

 

[Goose312]

None of the options really depict how I feel about it.

I felt the return was really underwhelming.

That should have been an option for the poll. Feel like the return could have been better, but both players moved were expendable and losing their cap was necessary.

I still blame Vegas for killing the market on defenders which lowered the return for Scandella.

 

[Engebretson]

Yeah, I'm not sure the dust will actually settle until we see how all of these pieces actually turn out in the next year or two. Initially, I'm still not impressed with the trade but I think this poll would be better at the end of next season at the very least.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

It's hard to assess a non-hockey trade. Not sure what the Sabres have on people but adding Beaulieu, Scandella and Pominville for those prices is a major offseason win. But elsewhere the price for a guy like Methot was negligible too so I guess there was a glut of average middle-pairing types.

Probably sound like a broken record but Pominville is where it went wrong for Fletcher: overpaid to get him (decent price but wrong time in the timeline for the franchise) and got a solid pro, then overpaid him on his contract and had to sell him for less than he's worth. I think we'll miss a competent source of 40+ points.

The cap savings doesn't mean much because the market got tight and Fletch took Ennis who eats up Scandella's salary. It's not a sure thing by any means but Olofsson seemed like a decent bet to cover that loss - now that savings is gone.

Ennis to me is redundant on the team, certainly a lesser player than Granlund or Nino, but paid enough that he might force one of them onto the trading block in the near future.

Foligno is not obligated to take a pay cut. Don't mind the player but an expensive bottom six player is not ideal.

Lots to be determined but all in all it makes me wonder if there wasn't a better trading partner out there.

 

[Minnesota]

Personally I think I overestimated Pominville & Scandella's value.

Still waiting to see if I'm undervaluing Ennis & Foligno... Hope I'm wrong.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I'd say opportunity missed, but we have no actual idea of what the other possible opportunities were.

 

[ThatGuy22]

I need a fourth option. Not a fan of the value, but understand Fletcher's goal and rational in making it.

 

[ThatGuy22]

It's hard to assess a non-hockey trade. Not sure what the Sabres have on people but adding Beaulieu, Scandella and Pominville for those prices is a major offseason win. But elsewhere the price for a guy like Methot was negligible too so I guess there was a glut of average middle-pairing types.

Probably sound like a broken record but Pominville is where it went wrong for Fletcher: overpaid to get him (decent price but wrong time in the timeline for the franchise) and got a solid pro, then overpaid him on his contract and had to sell him for less than he's worth. I think we'll miss a competent source of 40+ points.

The cap savings doesn't mean much because the market got tight and Fletch took Ennis who eats up Scandella's salary. It's not a sure thing by any means but Olofsson seemed like a decent bet to cover that loss - now that savings is gone.

Ennis to me is redundant on the team, certainly a lesser player than Granlund or Nino, but paid enough that he might force one of them onto the trading block in the near future.

Foligno is not obligated to take a pay cut. Don't mind the player but an expensive bottom six player is not ideal.

Lots to be determined but all in all it makes me wonder if there wasn't a better trading partner out there.

I think you're wrong about it not being a hockey trade. I think that's exactly what it was, which is why we don't like the return.

Fletcher's goal was to make enough cap room to sign Granlund and Nino while leaving the team as good as it could possible be for next season.

I think it's likely he could have gotten a better return of picks and prospects that would have left a better taste in fans mouths and been theoretically better for the future of the club(picks/prospects still need to turn into something), while leaving the team worse for 2017-2018.

Fletcher's rational I'm sure is that Gustav can do somewhere between 80 to 110% of what Scandella did, Foligino fills a hole in the bottom 6 he wanted to fill, and Ennis if healthy can do 80-100% of what Pominville did(he, and we all, hopes). While clearing the necessary room.

It's entirely possible it works out that way, and Fletcher 100% achieved his goal of maintaining the competitive balance of the team while clearing room for Granlund/Nino.

It's entirely possible Ennis is never the same, Foligino is another in a long line of failed 4th line experiments and the trade was a capdump that didn't clear enough cap.

But this was absolutely a hockey trade in Fletcher's eyes.

 

[Uberdachen]

Eh. It's not unimportant. It's basically dog vomit in the corner of the room. Stunk awful at first, but now it's just kind of there, and the more you look at it, you see there were some bits of plastic in there-- is that a G.I. Joe arm and a butter wrapper? Yeah, I guess I can see why that had to happen. But it was just out, when it ate the damn grass, why didn't it just puke then? You'll never get a boat with that attitude, dog.



Clean it up?? Whatever, Mom, why don't you get me a Pepsi.


Anyways, I voted old dog vomit. I'm going to have some people over to watch the results come in live. No it's cool I'll throw a Cub bag over it or something.

 

[AKL]

Right now, it's still an awful trade. If the goal was to clear cap space, we could have done a lot better. If the goal was to make a hockey trade and get a solid return, well, the jury is still out on whether Ennis can stay healthy and Foligno can be more than a 4th liner, but I doubt it.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Right now, it's still an awful trade. If the goal was to clear cap space, we could have done a lot better. If the goal was to make a hockey trade and get a solid return, well, the jury is still out on whether Ennis can stay healthy and Foligno can be more than a 4th liner, but I doubt it.

I don't think Fletcher expects him to be more than a 4th liner. I just think he expects him to be a good 4th liner, as opposed to the nothingness or straight out liability we've often had there.

 

[kfan22]

How about the option we let it play out then decide, remember most people didnt like the Clutterbuck for Nino trade at the time and look how that has turned out.

If Ennis can stay healthy and Foligno builds off of his 13 goal season last year Wild win the trade

 

[Bazeek]

How about the option we let it play out then decide, remember most people didnt like the Clutterbuck for Nino trade at the time and look how that has turned out.

If Ennis can stay healthy and Foligno builds off of his 13 goal season last year Wild win the trade

My memory must be going because this is about the exact opposite of what I remember.

 

[nickschultzfan]

Wild moved mountains to a keep Dumba when the correct choice was letting him go to Vegas.

 

[NotYou]

first option is closest, but is too strong. I think adding poms to scandella was unnecessary, especially if it was more or less just a poms for ennis swap. I recognize my opinion of ennis is lower than most though. Would've prefered a scandella for a second+ rather than the mess that we ended up with. However, if Ennis and/or Foligno are useful players next year this deal could turn out better than a futures deal. I just don't think either will be particularly impactful. Hopefully I'm wrong.

I still have no idea how fletch convinced vegas he would trade 2 defenseman rather than expose at least 1 if vegas didn't play ball with us. I figured there were actually good options and that scandella had to be one of the 2. But I can't imagine vegas thinking he'd actually do a deal (or 2!) like this rather than take the hit in the xdraft.

How about the option we let it play out then decide, remember most people didnt like the Clutterbuck for Nino trade at the time and look how that has turned out.

If Ennis can stay healthy and Foligno builds off of his 13 goal season last year Wild win the trade

that's not how i remember the reaction to the trade. The reception was lukewarm iirc

 

[Saga of the Elk]

I think you're wrong about it not being a hockey trade. I think that's exactly what it was, which is why we don't like the return.

Fletcher's goal was to make enough cap room to sign Granlund and Nino while leaving the team as good as it could possible be for next season.

I think it's likely he could have gotten a better return of picks and prospects that would have left a better taste in fans mouths and been theoretically better for the future of the club(picks/prospects still need to turn into something), while leaving the team worse for 2017-2018.

Fletcher's rational I'm sure is that Gustav can do somewhere between 80 to 110% of what Scandella did, Foligino fills a hole in the bottom 6 he wanted to fill, and Ennis if healthy can do 80-100% of what Pominville did(he, and we all, hopes). While clearing the necessary room.

It's entirely possible it works out that way, and Fletcher 100% achieved his goal of maintaining the competitive balance of the team while clearing room for Granlund/Nino.

It's entirely possible Ennis is never the same, Foligino is another in a long line of failed 4th line experiments and the trade was a capdump that didn't clear enough cap.

But this was absolutely a hockey trade in Fletcher's eyes.

Good post. To me, there's a spectrum of non-hockey (Gretzky to LA, Seguin to Dallas) and hockey (Hall for Larsson comes to mind, and probably most are on some level). When I think of a non-hockey trade I guess I mean one whose primary motivation is monetary (or personality based) rather than for the purpose of team performance. You could well be right on his thinking and his bets could still work out. I'm not here today to say it was indefensible or anything like that and we'll most likely never know what else was on the table.

(Wouldn't Johan Larsson have been a better return than Foligno though, given the holes at center?)

 

[ThatGuy22]

My memory must be going because this is about the exact opposite of what I remember.

I just read the trade thread again. There were 3 posters extremely negative and vocal on it (I'm sure most can guess who one was), while basically everyone else was stoked.

On that same note, I hadn't really been paying attention to Clutter in long island, but just checked. Nino has more goals in Minnesota than Clutterbuck has points.

Clutterbuck does have double the hits though

 

[TaLoN]

Not a fan of any of the poll options... Not horrible, not good, definitely not "not important".

I'm neutral on the trade itself, but it was absolutely important to the off-season.

How about the option we let it play out then decide, remember most people didnt like the Clutterbuck for Nino trade at the time and look how that has turned out.

If Ennis can stay healthy and Foligno builds off of his 13 goal season last year Wild win the trade

Opposite of what really happened actually! Everyone couldn't believe we got such a steal of a trade! We were laughing at the Isles and Snow for accepting such a deal!

Years later, we're still laughing!

 

[MN_Gopher]

This was a cap move for me. Hurts this year maybe makes us better long term; If we sign everyone and are competitive it was an OK deal.

 

[DANOZ28]

i understand moving pommer for some cap room, im clueless what CF was thinking on scandella. the 2 replacement D are underwhelming to say the least. i think it will be a miracle for ennis & foligno to even meet expectations. i want scandella back.

 

[TaLoN]

Going back to the Clutterbuck for Nino trade...

This is fun looking back on...

Cal Clutterbuck with the Islanders

13-14 - 73gp - 12g - 7a - 19p
14-15 - 76gp - 7g - 9a - 16p
15-16 - 77gp - 15g - 8a - 23p
16-17 - 66gp - 5g - 15a - 20p
-------------------------------------
Total - 292gp - 39g - 39a - 78p

Nino with the Wild

13-14 - 81gp - 14g - 22a - 36p
14-15 - 80gp - 24g - 13a - 37p
15-16 - 82gp - 20g - 23a - 43p
16-17 - 82gp - 25g - 32a - 57p
-------------------------------------
Total - 325gp - 83g - 90a - 173p

We KNEW this was going to happen too! Though Islanders fans still tried to defend the undefendable at the time.