Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building - Locked in until July

[JackFr]

Where your comparison falls flat is that unlike M.Reilly, Brodin is actually a very good player who's established himself as an NHLer.

I'm not saying Brodin and Reilly are the same. I've already said I think Brodin is a pretty good #4 defensive D, while Reilly isn't an NHL player.

What I'm saying is that people get fixated on players who have had poor results relative to perception of them and then say "Hey, it worked with Hagelin/Schultz, if we add this player suddenly they'll become beasts for us," when the reality is that Hagelin and Schultz were massively undervalued relative to how they had performed in the recent past because of basically bad luck/situations.

What we as a team that is not exactly overwhelmed with tradeable assets should do is identify guys who perform well in bad situations or may otherwise be available for less than they're worth. Brodin is the opposite; a player who performs okay in a good situation but who likely has a very high price because of perception around the league.

If we want to replicate the Schultz and Hagelin found money we have to focus on finding diamonds in the rough.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I thought Brass was good up to and through the Flyers series. Pretty apparent that he either got hurt in the final game against the Flyers or early on in the Caps series because he was wholly ineffective in that Washington series.

He'll be fine. He's a very good player who was still adjusting to a new system, one that was completely different than Ottawa's, and he was dealing with a myriad of different, underperforming and/or injured wingers. I really do think he's going to be fantastic for us this season, with a full training camp/pre-season to get a handle on Sully's system and familiarize himself with his linemates.

Honestly, we're completely set at center now. We need to reshape our blueline, badly, and we have to solidify some relatively weak spots at forward, particularly 4th line wings.

 

[Shockmaster]

unknown to you, perhaps. Brian Dumoulin was probably unknown to many when acquired, too. We should not be afraid to acquire young players from other organizations, even during the Crosby-Malkin era...ESPECIALLY since we haven't had a first rounder in a few years now.

Speaking of which, I have to think JR is looking to get back into the first round this year. Three years in a row without a first is enough.

Dumoulin wasn't thrown onto a pairing with Letang the moment he got to Pittsburgh. Hoping you can get by with Sheahan at 3rd line center while the unknown player at 4th line center develops all in the name of "asset management" is doing Crosby and Malkin a disservice while they are still in their primes.

 

[cheesedanish87]

You guys are funny....Blueger...come on...he had plenty of chances last year to make the team as a 4C and we saw nothing from him....we'd be going back to having Sheahan and McKegg as the bottom six centers...it won't do for a Cup contender...the team doesn't see Johnson as a center either, nor is he ready...he's been playing LW

I have no problem trading Brass and signing someone like Riley Nash in FA but you don't give up Brass BEFORE you've signed Nash, or we will end up with Rowney again...too risky..

And if they're trading Brass on such a great contract, they better get back close to what they gave up to get him, which was two depth players and a first round pick...only seems fair that JR should get a first round pick in return....

The reason we saw nothing from him is that he has never played an NHL game.

Its hard to show anything when you don't get a chance to play in a game.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The reason we saw nothing from him is that he has never played an NHL game.

Its hard to show anything when you don't get a chance to play in a game.

Yeah, I'm a little confused by the "Blueger got a bunch of chances to show" comment. He got called up, then sat in the pressbox until being returned to WBS again. Not exactly much of a chance to show what he can do in an NHL game.

 

[Riptide]

This is more draft related than roster related, but making this pick may actually have roster implications for next season. Sean Durzi is projected to go in the late 2nd or early 3rd round, what's unique about him is that he's an overaged right handed OFD prospect who can be sent to the AHL next season. He turns 20 in October, so if you'd draft him, there'd be a very real chance that he could play for the Penguins next year.

While that's a possibility, I wouldn't want that to be a reason to draft him vs someone else. Pick BPA, and deal with how that affects team needs down the road. I would also probably never draft someone with the intention that they'd make the team within 2-3 years. If they do, great, but that shouldn't be the plan out of the gate.

 

[Riptide]

I suppose it depends on what you think Brassard gets you in a trade. I think his cap hit allows a lot of teams to look into acquiring him, but I'm just not sure what he's bringing back in a trade that helps the Pens more than just keeping him.

Which is fair - if you can't make the team better then there's no need to consider it. But if we could get younger with someone coming back who has good/great potential, and still be good roster wise for this season, then I'd absolutely consider it.

I mean if you could do Brassard+Sheary for Domi/Patches and Danault, I'd be very very interested. We'd lose in center depth, but we'd take a massive step forward on LW.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I'm not saying Brodin and Reilly are the same. I've already said I think Brodin is a pretty good #4 defensive D, while Reilly isn't an NHL player.

What I'm saying is that people get fixated on players who have had poor results relative to perception of them and then say "Hey, it worked with Hagelin/Schultz, if we add this player suddenly they'll become beasts for us," when the reality is that Hagelin and Schultz were massively undervalued relative to how they had performed in the recent past because of basically bad luck/situations.

What we as a team that is not exactly overwhelmed with tradeable assets should do is identify guys who perform well in bad situations or may otherwise be available for less than they're worth. Brodin is the opposite; a player who performs okay in a good situation but who likely has a very high price because of perception around the league.

If we want to replicate the Schultz and Hagelin found money we have to focus on finding diamonds in the rough.

Schultz and Hagelin were not massively undervalued, they simply didn't work in the position/team they were on.

Schultz was put front and center too early. Bad team good player syndrome. When he wasn't the main cog he flourished here.
Hagelin proved his worth when playing for the NYRs but he clashed with the much slower Ducks team.

 

[Empoleon8771]

While that's a possibility, I wouldn't want that to be a reason to draft him vs someone else. Pick BPA, and deal with how that affects team needs down the road. I would also probably never draft someone with the intention that they'd make the team within 2-3 years. If they do, great, but that shouldn't be the plan out of the gate.

Why not? He fills a huge organizational need and is one of the closest to NHL ready prospects in the draft, just because he's older. He's a guy that can have an impact possibly immediately.

 

[Riptide]

I'll say this, I thought Brassard was overkill at the deadline. It isn't even about trading out Cole more than they needed a bigger difference maker on the back end. At the time, the 3rd line was doing considerably well with Sheahan. Everything went south after that deal. I'm not married to him as a Penguin, when they traded for Bonino they had him on the hook for a couple years and Brassard they have him for one. Considering he'd be a 2c mostly anywhere else I can see there being a bit of frustration on his part. The Pens just thought this was going to be "the difference maker move" and were wrong, that's all. They paid a hefty price for this mistake, though.

All things considered, yes he was pretty affordable. And I do not agree that it was a mistake - even if it was overkill. That said, I'd absolutely be looking around the league to see what our options are with him. IF we can move him and get better, even if we have a worse 3C or someone else who's on a Sheahan level I'd probably be okay with that. But I'm not sure how many teams out there have A) a player who is around a RS level center and B) someone else that makes sense to move Brassard for. Even if we add in Sheary or Hunwick, the deal has to make sense, and I'm not sure how many teams there are out there where it might make sense to move Brassard. But if we can't get a great return on him (both value and addressing our needs), then I'm more than happy to keep him for a while and hope that with a training camp and a summer to get healthy that things go better next season for him.

Disagree. Brassard is a Centre and Centres are already hard enough to come by. If GMJR waits until Tavares & Stasny are signed, his value will only be even higher.

Maybe, but we're still heavily dependent on a team who can give us a 3C and something else for it to make sense for us to move Brassard. And I do not think there's too many teams like that out there.

 

[Shady Machine]

I think its hard for players who play a big role on a team to all of a sudden go to a different team and have a much lesser role.

IMO its better to have a 3rd line center play 3rd line center rather then trying to make a 2nd line center a 3rd line center.

The same thing happened in Toronto last year, they brought in Plekanec to be a 4th line center for them, he was terrible in that role.

When Kadri got suspended Plekanec played in his normal role when they used him as a shutdown center and he played better because he was being used in a role he played his entire career.

Sure it can be difficult, but it wasn't guaranteed to be. Kessel has done just fine as a winger on the 3rd line, even if it causes some drama at times, and Matt Cullen was a fine 4th line center.

 

[Riptide]

How do you know Blueger isn't good enough to be a 4th line center?

How do you know he is? Because as you said, we haven't gotten a chance to see him, you certainly can't go into next season depending on him to be an effective 4C. 4W? Sure. Because if for some reason he can't hack it, we have other guys who can fill that W spot. But it's different at center. If we lose one of Brassard or Sheahan, we absolutely need to bring someone in who can fill the role of the guy who left, and that cannot be someone who's never played an NHL game yet.

 

[Shady Machine]

Right, but like I said, Brassard was overkill. The cost was too much to fill a hole they could have filled cheaper.

I'd say the back end 5/6 D-man was much more important than a 4c. Proof is in the pudding. Here is how bad it was, you had Hunwick back there and you didn't use him once. They had zero depth, they had -0 depth.

Sheahan and some other lesser costly 4c you can get away with. The D-corps lost a lot this past season and then you trade out of it without replacing it.

I don't think Brass was overkill and you saying it doesn't make it so. Sheahan was playing well, but let's remember the guy was trash not that long ago and was mediocre in the playoffs. Trusting him to be a cup caliber 3C with next to nothing at 4C was a gamble. I suppose you could argue going after Pleks for less assets would have been a wiser move.

 

[Shady Machine]

He could have got a lesser but still adequate centre for far less outlay to be fair.

Sure but do you have any examples? There weren't many centers moving at the deadline.

 

[Shady Machine]

My hunch is that there’s no lack of desire to keep Brassard but he’s also one HELL of an asset! $3M for a Top 6 C... If you can flip that for a you like Pacioretty then go for it! But I don’t think GMJR is desperate to move him or even wants to. That’s trading from a position of strength.

Why would we trade a 3MM 2nd line center for a 4.5MM top 6 winger that is going to make BANK next summer? Can we afford to pay Patches 7MM long term?

 

[Shady Machine]

Yeah, I'm a little confused by the "Blueger got a bunch of chances to show" comment. He got called up, then sat in the pressbox until being returned to WBS again. Not exactly much of a chance to show what he can do in an NHL game.

Agreed but I guess the counter to that is that the coaches weren't impressed enough with him to play him over Greg McKegg. I don't necessarily buy it, but not totally without merit. I think we can at least admit that the posters on here suggesting Blueger as a 3C fill in last summer were jumping the gun just a bit.

 

[Shady Machine]

Which is fair - if you can't make the team better then there's no need to consider it. But if we could get younger with someone coming back who has good/great potential, and still be good roster wise for this season, then I'd absolutely consider it.

I mean if you could do Brassard+Sheary for Domi/Patches and Danault, I'd be very very interested. We'd lose in center depth, but we'd take a massive step forward on LW.

For sure. I'm definitely not saying no. A slight downgrade this season at center to help extend the window is fine. It just has to be the right deal with a team that can offer Brass the extension he wants.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Is there anything new from JR here or is it the same stuff he has been saying?

 

[Riptide]

Why not? He fills a huge organizational need and is one of the closest to NHL ready prospects in the draft, just because he's older. He's a guy that can have an impact possibly immediately.

Because what happens if you pass on the BPA for him, and he either A) doesn't make the team for 4+ seasons or B) doesn't pan out at all or C) does make the team, but is only ever a 6/7D?

Pick the BPA. IF they make the team within a couple of seasons, great. IF they take 4 years, but turn into a star, that too is great. But picking someone because you think that they're one of the closest to being "NHL ready" and having those sort of expectations on them (playing in the NHL in 2 years), you're doing both them and the team a disservice.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I don't think Brass was overkill and you saying it doesn't make it so. Sheahan was playing well, but let's remember the guy was trash not that long ago and was mediocre in the playoffs. Trusting him to be a cup caliber 3C with next to nothing at 4C was a gamble. I suppose you could argue going after Pleks for less assets would have been a wiser move.

That is exactly my point. Flip flop him and Sheahan 'til your heart's desire. Leaves a lot to add depth on defense, but I'm not sure they were even interested in that since they didn't even add any D-depth at all. Just little niblets since they have never done this going into the playoffs.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Agreed but I guess the counter to that is that the coaches weren't impressed enough with him to play him over Greg McKegg. I don't necessarily buy it, but not totally without merit. I think we can at least admit that the posters on here suggesting Blueger as a 3C fill in last summer were jumping the gun just a bit.

True enough, but the statement was about him getting chances and not doing anything with them. At the NHL level, at least, that's not true since he didn't even dress for a single NHL game.

IMO, it was a wasted opportunity when they called him up and didn't dress him. They could have gauged what they had in him at that point, but instead opted for Rowney, I believe.

 

[Shady Machine]

That is exactly my point. Flip flop him and Sheahan 'til your heart's desire. Leaves a lot to add depth on defense, but I'm not sure they were even interested in that since they didn't even add any D-depth at all. Just little niblets since they have never done this going into the playoffs.

The difference is that we still have Brass for this season whereas Pleks is likely a lock to return to Montreal if they want him. JR can still flip Brass if it's "overkill" and recoup all his assets or more.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Is there anything new from JR here or is it the same stuff he has been saying?

As far as the offseason stuff goes it seems all on point.

 

[Shady Machine]

True enough, but the statement was about him getting chances and not doing anything with them. At the NHL level, at least, that's not true since he didn't even dress for a single NHL game.

IMO, it was a wasted opportunity when they called him up and didn't dress him. They could have gauged what they had in him at that point, but instead opted for Rowney, I believe.

Totally fair. Even giving him a game for the experience would have been a good idea. No idea why they didn't.

 

[Andy99]

Yeah, I'm a little confused by the "Blueger got a bunch of chances to show" comment. He got called up, then sat in the pressbox until being returned to WBS again. Not exactly much of a chance to show what he can do in an NHL game.

He played preseason games and training camp...they sent him back to WBS...there’s a reason he didn’t get a sniff all year over Rowney and McKegg and Jooris FGS...if he can’t beat those guys out, the team should not be stapling him to the 4C slot next year, and we would have no other “good” options if he fails...