Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building - Locked in until July

[cheesedanish87]

Their ES ice time in the playoffs was very close with Sheahan at 12:10 and Brass at 11:37. That's one extra shift a game. Keep in mind, Geno only played 13:50 per game, so we aren't talking drastically different ES ice time.

The main difference is special teams where Sheahan played 3:20 on PK and Brassard only 17 seconds. Brassard played 1:35 on the PP for a total of 13:39 per game vs 15:35 for Sheahan.

The wing talk had a lot to do with Sully saying he needs to find a way to get Brassard more ice time and Brass said he was open to playing wing to make that happen. I assume injuries and lack of offensive production had something to do with Brass' ice time being that low.

I think its hard for players who play a big role on a team to all of a sudden go to a different team and have a much lesser role.

IMO its better to have a 3rd line center play 3rd line center rather then trying to make a 2nd line center a 3rd line center.

The same thing happened in Toronto last year, they brought in Plekanec to be a 4th line center for them, he was terrible in that role.

When Kadri got suspended Plekanec played in his normal role when they used him as a shutdown center and he played better because he was being used in a role he played his entire career.

 

[Shady Machine]

I'll say this, I thought Brassard was overkill at the deadline. It isn't even about trading out Cole more than they needed a bigger difference maker on the back end. At the time, the 3rd line was doing considerably well with Sheahan. Everything went south after that deal. I'm not married to him as a Penguin, when they traded for Bonino they had him on the hook for a couple years and Brassard they have him for one. Considering he'd be a 2c mostly anywhere else I can see there being a bit of frustration on his part. The Pens just thought this was going to be "the difference maker move" and were wrong, that's all. They paid a hefty price for this mistake, though.

You don't rob Peter to pay Paul and consider that a depth move. That's what they did. A serious contender never trades out a needed part at the TDL, those are left for draft day or summer moves like Neal for Hornqvist. You only create depth by adding to your everyday roster. They ran a 6 man D-corps this last playoffs and it cost them. Depth players were playing every game roles.

A serious contender also doesn't go into the playoffs with Sheahan-Rowney (Rowney was injured too I think) as their 3rd and 4th line centers. They needed another center more than they needed a number 5-6 dman.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Still, the Pens won't move him to wing unless there's another center. They went looking for a 3C, not a 4C, at the TDL last year because they werent happy with Sheahan in that role....even if they somehow changed their mind (and I don't think they should), they would need to bring in another center BEFORE they trade Brass or they'd be in the same situation last year. Blueger is not good enough and there are no other candidates in house... MTL is desperate for centers...anyone thinking Danault is coming back is crazy (plus he had by all accounts a pretty serious concussion). I have no issues trading Brass if we can get a solid C back, but looking at what happened in the search for a C last year, I doubt it. If MTL is truly interested in trading Domi, and the Pens view him as a center, then maybe that would work...think that's unlikely....

I think we'd need to be trading other pieces to get someone to replace Brass and now we're looking at a substantial retool ...I don't think it's likely to work out

How do you know Blueger isn't good enough to be a 4th line center?

Hes never gotten a chance to play with the Pens, he looked good at the world championships.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Burn assets? You mean a draft pick and two guys who were leaving after this year? Yup, that's really trading the farm.

Name another 3rd line center who is a) proven, b) costs 3.5 million or less, and c) can be acquired by only giving up Brassard and lesser assets?

Good luck with that.

How long is our supposed No. 3 center going to cost $3.5 million? That is the issue. A guy like Dvorak or Barbashev (just 2 examples) or any younger No. 3 center would cost less, perhaps have more talent, and could play 4th line minutes until ready...with Sheahan moving forth and back as need be.

Anyone who thinks we should trade Brassard because of “asset management” crack me up..... we would need to then turn around and burn more assets to bring in a 3c because the one we get for Brassard wouldn’t be as good or as cheap. Sheahan is not a cup caliber 3c either

JR can acquire a center, there are ways. The question here is Brassard's value on the trade market vis-a-vis his value to this team.

Can't do that unless you have plans to play Brass on PK regularly and are confident in Blueger to be the other PK center.

Blueger is an RFA. He is a non-factor.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Still, the Pens won't move him to wing unless there's another center. They went looking for a 3C, not a 4C, at the TDL last year because they werent happy with Sheahan in that role....even if they somehow changed their mind (and I don't think they should), they would need to bring in another center BEFORE they trade Brass or they'd be in the same situation last year. Blueger is not good enough and there are no other candidates in house... MTL is desperate for centers...anyone thinking Danault is coming back is crazy (plus he had by all accounts a pretty serious concussion). I have no issues trading Brass if we can get a solid C back, but looking at what happened in the search for a C last year, I doubt it. If MTL is truly interested in trading Domi, and the Pens view him as a center, then maybe that would work...think that's unlikely....

I think we'd need to be trading other pieces to get someone to replace Brass and now we're looking at a substantial retool ...I don't think it's likely to work out

There are FA's that can be signed to fill the 3c/4c role for free. I'd rather secure a solid R-Shot R-side D-man.

That was their glaring hole then and now.

 

[PensandCaps]

If Rowney is "good enough" to play 4C, then Blueger is well past more than "good enough"

I think Blueger can come in and play 4C very well. I think he becomes a 3C in this league. Very steady and solid player.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Who is this Blueger fellow?

 

[sovietsanta87]

What is the source of this report?

I misread the report. It said he was listening to offers for the third pick. Not Domi.

Believe it or not I have a degree in English at W&J. Maybe I should ask for my money back lmao

 

[AjaxTelamon]

The only thing that really interests me out of Montreal is Danault. Patches is nice, but if we're moving Brassard, we absolutely need another C coming back.

Brassard+Sheary for Patches+Danault ??? Think that would work? Montreal gets a skilled center who they can probably keep around, and Pittsburgh gets a strong LW and a replacement depth C.

In a vacuum, a center-starved team would never consider sending out a good bottom six center like Danault for a 2C, that would be a bit self-defeating. But in Montreal, they pretty much need to at least look like they're trying to compete. And their roster is a mess. Say what you want about the lack of value in Brass and his remaining year, he's a legit #2C if given the proper role and support (and if extended).

Who else like Brass is really available, especially with Tavares seemingly staying with the Isles?

But yeah, we're not getting Patches too without a significant add. I think you're a lot closer to a deal with Domi + Danault for Brass + Sheary + 3rd/4th rounder.

 

[Ugene Magic]

A serious contender also doesn't go into the playoffs with Sheahan-Rowney (Rowney was injured too I think) as their 3rd and 4th line centers. They needed another center more than they needed a number 5-6 dman.

Right, but like I said, Brassard was overkill. The cost was too much to fill a hole they could have filled cheaper.

I'd say the back end 5/6 D-man was much more important than a 4c. Proof is in the pudding. Here is how bad it was, you had Hunwick back there and you didn't use him once. They had zero depth, they had -0 depth.

Sheahan and some other lesser costly 4c you can get away with. The D-corps lost a lot this past season and then you trade out of it without replacing it.

 

[Ugene Magic]

If Rowney is "good enough" to play 4C, then Blueger is well past more than "good enough"

I think Blueger can come in and play 4C very well. I think he becomes a 3C in this league. Very steady and solid player.

This is also worth a shot. There is also Adam Johnson.

 

[sovietsanta87]

Do we have a Matt Cullen lying around?

No but a Czech version of Cullen is available. The problem is, he wants to go back to Montreal.

 

[Peat]

And i didn't argue against any of that.

I argued against the concept of doing any move for the sake of asset management. If it make THIS team better (next 1-3) years THAT is the priority. Whether or not assets are maximized is down the priority list.

If trading Derek Brassard/Letang/Kessel etc accomplishes that then by all means but not for the sake of assets.

Fair enough, misread you.

I suppose it depends on what you think Brassard gets you in a trade. I think his cap hit allows a lot of teams to look into acquiring him, but I'm just not sure what he's bringing back in a trade that helps the Pens more than just keeping him.

I've no idea what Brassard gets or what he wants. But, I've got to believe that unless Rutherford's gone senile, if we're talking a guy he spent so long looking for and so much getting,

A serious contender also doesn't go into the playoffs with Sheahan-Rowney (Rowney was injured too I think) as their 3rd and 4th line centers. They needed another center more than they needed a number 5-6 dman.

He could have got a lesser but still adequate centre for far less outlay to be fair.

 

[Andy99]

You guys are funny....Blueger...come on...he had plenty of chances last year to make the team as a 4C and we saw nothing from him....we'd be going back to having Sheahan and McKegg as the bottom six centers...it won't do for a Cup contender...the team doesn't see Johnson as a center either, nor is he ready...he's been playing LW

I have no problem trading Brass and signing someone like Riley Nash in FA but you don't give up Brass BEFORE you've signed Nash, or we will end up with Rowney again...too risky..

And if they're trading Brass on such a great contract, they better get back close to what they gave up to get him, which was two depth players and a first round pick...only seems fair that JR should get a first round pick in return....

 

[Shockmaster]

How long is our supposed No. 3 center going to cost $3.5 million? That is the issue. A guy like Dvorak or Barbashev (just 2 examples) or any younger No. 3 center would cost less, perhaps have more talent, and could play 4th line minutes until ready...with Sheahan moving forth and back as need be.

Yeah, let's trade the established player we have now for a complete unknown while Crosby and Malkin are still in their primes. Great move there.

 

[TimmyD]

So can we pray to the hockey Gods that the Caps offer Bylsma the head coaching job now that Trotz has resigned? That might be the most glorious thing that could happen

 

[Shockmaster]

So can we pray to the hockey Gods that the Caps offer Bylsma the head coaching job now that Trotz has resigned? That might be the most glorious thing that could happen

The job is likely going to Reirden.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The job is likely going to Reirden.

I'm not sure if that's any better than Bylsma

 

[Shockmaster]

I'm not sure if that's any better than Bylsma

Probably not, especially since it's looking more likely Carlson is gone in a couple weeks.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I guarantee you that you’d say the same thing in 2010 about Bylsma.

Let’s not act like Sullivan isn’t replaceable. If he’s half of the pain in the ass to players as reported, his shelf life is going to be short. The yinzers will blindly defend him for the next 5 years because we just won 2 cups!

Was that because of Sullivan? I tend to think it’s more thanks to JR. We had such a talented roster that the head coach’s job was pretty much don’t **** this up.

I think people tend to overvalue coaches. Please tell me how we could find a 92 point winger with his contract.

Sully is some never has-been that somehow ended up coaching a fantastic roster. I just think a lot of the coaches in this league, if given the rosters of 2016 and 2017 , would do extremely well.

Sully was absolutely terrible last year. He continuously played players that have no business playing in the league because they worked hard. He has that same stupid fascination with grinders.

He’s eerily simailsr to Dan Bylsma and I doubt any of you will see it until years from now. So many posters on this site couldn’t see the glaring issues with Shero and Bylsma.

Bylsma didn't instill an identity. Bylsma didn't have guys buying in. Bylsma was a friend more so than a coach. Bylsma's coaching began and ended with "throw the puck north and hope for the best". There were never any mid-game adjustments, ever. There were never any line matching or anything like that from Bylsma to get Sid or Geno away from the opposition's best. Bylsma was a guy who missed playing/being around the guys so much he refused to actually coach or hold guys accountable for fear of being disliked. You can guarantee all you want, but I was one of the first ones around here to question Bylsma. Bylsma was a fraud from the start, but the polar opposite of the stifling atmosphere of "no fun allowed" hockey under Therrien. Bylsma was just a means for the guys to have fun and do whatever they wanted, and it worked at the time, but it was never a good hockey decision to keep him as coach. As soon as the honeymoon period ended and the new season began after the first Sid/Geno era Cup, and Bylsma had to really work, he was a joke. The Shero/Bylsma era cost us likely one or two more Cups because of their ineptitude, stubbornness, arrogance and damn-near spitefulness with regard to never changing their ways.

Sullivan and Bylsma are nothing alike outside of sharing the odd affinity for certain, underwhelming players. Fun fact: Literally every single coach around the league does that. Every single one. So it's up to JR to make sure the roster has as few weak links like Rowney or Kuhn or Sheary for Sully to misuse. Sullivan's still one of the best coaches in the league, regardless of how annoying his favoritism, line combos, and constant coach-speak can get.

If you think Sully and Bylsma are even remotely close to one another, you're being purposely ignorant. Sully can be annoying at times with his coaching decisions, but to equate the two genuinely just nullifies all credibility anyone has on the subject.

 

[Coach Travis]

Last year Brass lost his 3rd line center spot to Sheahan in the playoffs.

Then their was talk at that end of the year that Brass might move to wing.

So Brass might not even be a 3rd line center if hes here next year.

My hunch is that there’s no lack of desire to keep Brassard but he’s also one HELL of an asset! $3M for a Top 6 C... If you can flip that for a you like Pacioretty then go for it! But I don’t think GMJR is desperate to move him or even wants to. That’s trading from a position of strength.

 

[Coach Travis]

There's no chance Montreal is going to do that, though. Pacioretty, Brassard and Danault all have about the same value, Danault is a little lower than the other 2 but not dramatically lower. You're going to have to add something basically equal to Danault to get that package.

You're looking at something like Brassard and a 1st for Pacioretty and Danault, and I'm honestly not sure if that even cuts it.

Disagree. Brassard is a Centre and Centres are already hard enough to come by. If GMJR waits until Tavares & Stasny are signed, his value will only be even higher.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Yeah, let's trade the established player we have now for a complete unknown while Crosby and Malkin are still in their primes. Great move there.

unknown to you, perhaps. Brian Dumoulin was probably unknown to many when acquired, too. We should not be afraid to acquire young players from other organizations, even during the Crosby-Malkin era...ESPECIALLY since we haven't had a first rounder in a few years now.

Speaking of which, I have to think JR is looking to get back into the first round this year. Three years in a row without a first is enough.

 

[Gurglesons]

Probably not, especially since it's looking more likely Carlson is gone in a couple weeks.

It’s weird how they won and now everyone is jumping ship. I guess they realize how hard it is and they want to cash in.

 

[Pancakes]

I don't want Brass dealt. We've got wonderful center depth if we re-sign Sheahan. Let's see how that performs. Brass is so cheap too given what Vegas did for us that it would be insane to trade him. He offers so much value.

Don't forget too that Brass can step up and play 1c or 2c if one (or both) of Crosby/Malkin get hurt. Brass can play on the top pp. And Sheahan could always get hurt too in which case the more depth at c the better.

We've been lucky (knock on wood) with Sid/Geno the past few years but historically those two get hurt quite often. So having Brass is wonderful insurance and makes us a devastating team when healthy as well.

You can never have enough center depth.