Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building - Locked in until July

[Shady Machine]

It's really not arguable. I'm sorry, but you are just going way overboard with this Letang hate at this point. Kessel just straight up sucked. He did nothing well. At least Letang played very well offensively.

The difference is that a winger can’t lose you a game (or it’s much less likely) but a Dman can. You can bury an underperforming winger much easier than a top Dman.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What? This is a brutal deal for Pittsburgh

How is that brutal for the Penguins? They get 2 good top-6 forwards in exchange for Kessel and Sprong basically. Sheary is a nothing loss. The Penguins become a better team by making that trade.

The way I look at it is that Kessel's value is about Coyle and a 1st, and Zucker's value is about Sprong and a 1st. The 1sts cancel each other out, which just leaves Coyle and Zucker for Kessel and Sprong. Sheary's included mostly for cap reasons.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Everyone talks about Sully and Phil not being on the same page

But does anyone think JR Mario or anybody else in the Pens organization is happy that Phil put his ironman streak ahead of the team?

 

[Shady Machine]

How is that brutal for the Penguins? They get 2 good top-6 forwards in exchange for Kessel and Sprong basically. Sheary is a nothing loss. The Penguins become a better team by making that trade.

The way I look at it is that Kessel's value is about Coyle and a 1st, and Zucker's value is about Sprong and a 1st. The 1sts cancel each other out, which just leaves Coyle and Zucker for Kessel and Sprong. Sheary's included mostly for cap reasons.

It’s giving up on Sprong who could be better than Zucker as soon as this season. If I’m trading Kessel, Sprong is staying.

We lose a lot of pure goal scoring talent in that trade to get back safer solid guys. And you added Sheary and ate money for some odd season. That’s 3 top nine wingers for 2 and you traded the best player in the deal and a guy who has higher upside than either of the players you got back (even if that upside may not be reached). Just a bad deal

 

[Shady Machine]

Everyone talks about Sully and Phil not being on the same page

But does anyone think JR Mario or anybody else in the Pens organization is happy that Phil put his ironman streak ahead of the team?

I think people are really overreacting based on rumors.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It’s giving up on Sprong who could be better than Zucker as soon as this season. If I’m trading Kessel, Sprong is staying.

We lose a lot of pure goal scoring talent in that trade to get back safer solid guys. And you added Sheary and ate money for some odd season. That’s 3 top nine wingers for 2 and you traded the best player in the deal and a guy who has higher upside than either of the players you got back (even if that upside may not be reached). Just a bad deal

Saying Sprong could end up better than Zucker this season is insanely unrealistic to expect from a rookie. Zucker is a 30 goal, 60 point player already. I think you're overrating the hell out of Sprong here, and I'm one of Sprong's biggest fans on HF. Sprong is a good prospect at this point, his value isn't that high. The Penguins are trading a top end 1st liner, a prospect and a 3rd liner for a 1st liner and a borderline 1st/2nd liner.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I think people are really overreacting based on rumors.

What does rumors have to do with Phil putting his ironman streak over the team goals?

 

[Shady Machine]

Saying Sprong could end up better than Zucker this season is insanely unrealistic to expect from a rookie. Zucker is a 30 goal, 60 point player already. I think you're overrating the hell out of Sprong here, and I'm one of Sprong's biggest fans on HF. Sprong is a good prospect at this point, his value isn't that high. The Penguins are trading a top end 1st liner, a prospect and a 3rd liner for a 1st liner and a borderline 1st/2nd liner.

Lol. Zucker scored 30 once. He’s a 20 goal guy with a big season. Are you confident he puts up 30 moving forward. Sheary was a 60 point guy a year ago...

I don’t disagree that Sprongs value isn’t that high. That’s why it’s stupid to trade him now.

It’s a bad deal.

 

[Shady Machine]

What does rumors have to do with Phil putting his ironman streak over the team goals?

You are making assumptions that we KNOW that Phil put his Ironman streak ahead of the team.

 

[The Greatest 101]

Everyone talks about Sully and Phil not being on the same page

But does anyone think JR Mario or anybody else in the Pens organization is happy that Phil put his ironman streak ahead of the team?

Sorry for my ignorance, but why would a player like Phil Kessel care about stuff like this? Does that actually mean anything? Is there an award or bonus? I thought that was Craig Adams’ stuff. I at least can understand if he’s unhappy with his role on the team or he wants to play with a talent like Geno, but Ironman streak?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Lol. Zucker scored 30 once. He’s a 20 goal guy with a big season. Are you confident he puts up 30 moving forward. Sheary was a 60 point guy a year ago...

It’s a bad deal.

Zucker in his last 4 seasons has 89 goals in 283 games from age 22 to 26. That's a pace of 26 goals per 82 games. Zucker and Sheary are absolutely not comparable, Zucker has progressed like how you'd expect many young forward to progress. Sheary exploded and had a career season while playing with Sidney Crosby, and then fell back to being a 30 point player the next season. They're not comparable players at all.

 

[DeadPuckEra]

All I can point to - is that the last time Madden started leaking trade rumors about an enigmatic winger, the winger was traded soon after.

#slippingjimmy

 

[Gurglesons]

The difference is that a winger can’t lose you a game (or it’s much less likely) but a Dman can. You can bury an underperforming winger much easier than a top Dman.

Except people want to make the argument that he is part of our core.

You can’t say that Kessel is part of the core and then bury him. Honestly, we tried that in the playoffs and he blew.

 

[cheesedanish87]

You are making assumptions that we KNOW that Phil put his Ironman streak ahead of the team.

Before any of these rumors came out i assumed Phil played through parts of the regular season injured.

I thought it was pretty obvious at points of the regular season that Phil wasn't close to 100%

So the rumors that came out saying he put his ironman streak over the teams goals was already assumed by a lot of fans before any rumor came out about it.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Sorry for my ignorance, but why would a player like Phil Kessel care about stuff like this? Does that actually mean anything? Is there an award or bonus? I thought that was Craig Adams’ stuff. I at least can understand if he’s unhappy with his role on the team or he wants to play with a talent like Geno, but Ironman streak?

It doesn't mean anything to me, but it seems like its important to Phil to keep that streak going.

 

[The Greatest 101]

It doesn't mean anything to me, but it seems like its important to Phil to keep that streak going.

More likely they are just making stuff up.

 

[cheesedanish87]

More likely they are just making stuff up.

All those players who have a long ironman streak in any sport its a big deal for them to keep it going as long as possible.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah players care about ironman streaks if they have one, Cogliano was on the verge of crying when he was talking to the media about being suspended this year, which broke his super long ironman streak. It may not matter to fans, but players that have one really want to keep it going. It's something to take pride in.

 

[Andy99]

If an injured player’s Ironman streak affects the ability of the team to win games, then the coach has to sit the player. Given the margin betw winning and losing against the Caps, it was up to Sully to sit Phil. I think Sprong should at least have been tried. I do fault him for a lot of this nonsense...

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I mean, for a guy like Sully who preaches a "shut up and do your job" mantra and consistently pumps the tires of his guys when giving interviews--especially when they don't deserve it, as a means of giving them a confidence boost--for him to call Phil out pretty publicly and without even trying to hide it was, uh, telling.

If Phil's traded, it's not going to be because he's a bad player, or because he struggled in the playoffs. It'll be because this organization thinks they can replace him easier than they can replace Sully. I'm not sure I agree with either side, and think both are super important to this team, but it is what it is.

Another thing; if you fire Sully, the "Phil is a coach killer" narrative gains strength and likely lessens his value dramatically if/when it's time to eventually move on. If a coach like Sully, whose players run through walls for him and buy into his gameplan like gospel, can't corral Phil... Then who? Y'know?

What a shitty situation. And again, I go back to the idiotic Pittsburgh sports media and their part in this. For years, they will pump up the tires of anyone and everyone involved in Penguins hockey--coaches, front office guys, players, whatever--as long as those said members of the organization are safe. As soon as someone is on their way out, the media turns on them, like clockwork. Example; Bylsma was defended rigorously until an abrupt shift where he was criticized heavily in the weeks/months leading up to his firing. I think that sorta thing could very well be happening with Phil here, and it's worrisome, because once the Pittsburgh sports media turns on a guy it usually spells the end of his tenure on this team.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I don’t know. I’ll take my defenseman making a relatively weak play to avoid a penalty in front of the net than my power play QB literally creating a 2 on 1 when he has an open man, and the opportunity to just dump the puck.

The fact you think that Letang’s play there is a “blooper” is all I need to know about your bias in this situation. But, I think you were one of the ones pushing Letang being at fault for the 2 on 1 which Maatta created. That’s a play literally every defenseman in the league has done.

Part of the problem with that dissection of the play starts with the fact that it was never a 2-on-1. At no point was there only 1 Penguin between 2 Flyers and Murray. Disagree? Check the tape and show me the time where you imagine that happened.

The irony is that Kessel kept position on his man during the entire sequence while Letang, the supposed 2-way defenseman, lost his man on a routine play....a recurring theme these playoffs. All he had to do was stay between his man and the net and he didn't. Letang was caught staring into the middle distance while everyone else had their guys covered. A shiny object probably distracted him.

 

[EightyOne]

I think people are really overreacting based on rumors.

Haha

Hahaha

Hahaha hahaha

You think we need rumors to overreact here?!? Don't sell us short.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think Bylsma/Johnston has traumatized this fanbase so much that they'd so quickly rather move Kessel to make Sullivan happy than to even wonder if maybe Sullivan is the issue.

I'm not even saying he is, but at the same time I don't think Sullivan's more important to the organization than one of its star players. Under Sullivan, the team has looked awful structurally for pretty much an entire season and playoffs.

 

[PensandCaps]

Trading Kessel for fair value would be so stupid. ..

If Sullivan and Kessel have beef, I say they shoud just get over it and win more cups.

 

[Andy99]

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Ryan...be-a-yearly-topic-but-not-like-this/177/93055

I don’t know if anyone saw this, but it’s RyanWilson’s take. Which is don’t trade him this summer.....