Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building - Locked in until July

[JimmyTwoTimes]

What would be the issue with the line-up? Shift a few guys around and you get a better balance, Sullivan has an epic issue with that, he rides hot streaks and then looks like a genius for it, but then it goes cold and he has no answers and is just clueless with what to do with his line-up. I'm not worried about other teams beating us, I'm worried about our own team beating themselves by not maximizing the potential it has. And let's be real, the potential is massive.

You have a mixture of what you need, it's a matter of Sullivan understanding patience, now is NOT the time to suddenly get antsy and just juggle the **** out of everything. But if it needs it, sure, but it should make some sense.

Many teams win without plugs like Kuhn and Rowney in the line-up, Sullivan has no excuse there, they are not elite at what they do in any shape or form.

Rust's issue on the left side is that he's not as good defensively there, but he's still a very good puck hound on the left side and he gets interesting looks there for a shot, I think he might actually be better as the LW on the Brassard line. ZAR should be in the line-up and either with Sid or Sheahan.

Guentzel, Crosby, Aston-Reese
Hagelin, Malkin, Hornqvist
Rust, Brassard, Kessel
Sheary, Sheahan, Simon

Or

Simon, Brassard, Kessel
Sheary, Sheahan, Rust

If Sheary stays in the lineup thats the perfect spot for him. On the left side with Sheahan and Rust. If Sheary could get his confidence back that would be a great 4th line in the playoffs.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

The Bylsma-tendencies do worry me.

I think some of them are just standard nhl coach tendencies. It’s that Sullivan seemed like he wasn’t as bad about that. Bylsma took it to extremes and now Sullivan won’t knock it the f*** off.

The real Bylsma tendencies are the insanity like answer to not scoring goals wasn’t to make life difficult for the goalie, it was to think the universe was conspiring against them via counting imaginary goals and blaming forcefields.

 

[Riptide]

Many teams win without plugs like Kuhn and Rowney in the line-up, Sullivan has no excuse there, they are not elite at what they do in any shape or form.

Rust's issue on the left side is that he's not as good defensively there, but he's still a very good puck hound on the left side and he gets interesting looks there for a shot, I think he might actually be better as the LW on the Brassard line. ZAR should be in the line-up and either with Sid or Sheahan.

Guentzel, Crosby, Aston-Reese
Hagelin, Malkin, Hornqvist
Rust, Brassard, Kessel
Sheary, Sheahan, Simon

Or

Simon, Brassard, Kessel
Sheary, Sheahan, Rust

@ Kuhnhackl. Honestly, if he's the worst winger in the lineup, that doesn't bother me. No, he's not anything special, but when he's on his game (which requires some resemblance of regular shifts), he's fast, gritty, and effective. They had a shift in the 2nd(?) where they were great. Hemmed in NJ for their shift, then changed. That is what we want. Just get someone more skilled then Rowney on there as the other winger.

@ Simon and Sheary/Kessel/Guentzel/Sprong. Simon is a crafty offensive player who makes smart little plays and who is decent on the forecheck. Doesn't have the best speed (not slow, but not blazing fast), but adds to the team when in the OZ. His defensive game however is so bad... and his offensive game doesn't make up for it. I don't mind him in the lineup... but that other winger is key. And given some of the other guys we have... I struggle to see how many options we will have for him going forward. We all know that regardless of what happens this spring, that changes will be coming this summer. Odds are one of Hagelin/Sheary/Sprong will be gone - hopefully Sheary given Simon/Sprong being cheaper and able to replace him.

@ Sheary. Much of what I said about Simon applies to Sheary as well. I love him as a L4 winger with Sheahan and ZAR or even Kuhnhackl. And if he can get his shit together, I don't even mind him on L1. But we need more from him. And we need to be careful about where we put him due to his amazing defensive game. He brings more speed and can be better on the forecheck then Simon... but his effectiveness there seems hit or miss. Some days he's on, and holy f*** is he effective at forcing turnovers. Other days he's a step slow (which is odd given his speed) and can't do shit.

Right now, I think the below would be my ideal lineup. Get 19/59/87 to PK. But get back to 4 effective lines. And if Sheary/Kuhnhackl isn't cutting it... dress Jooris or Sprong or Simon. But get back to having a 4th line that can play more than 7 shifts together.

Guentzel - Crosby - Rust/ZAR
Hagelin - Malkin - Hornqvist
Rust/ZAR - Brassard - Kessel
Sheary - Sheahan - Kuhnhackl

 

[Riptide]

This summer... Honestly I'd look to two places to move Sheary. ARI for Panik and EDM whomever (likely one of their kids? - idk). They wanted to add speed right? Can't remember how fast Panik is, but I do remember how gritty he is. At the very least he'd be someone else who could move around the lineup. And for ARI, the deal would be pretty salary neutral (2.8m vs 3 - retain 200k if that's an issue). I'd even add a pick. Maybe Tocchet can make it work with him.

Getting Panik would allow for more options roster wise, and open up more options for Simon/Sprong going into next season. I mean there's few chances that either will play with Kessel or with Guentzel/Sheary. That kind of limits things. However with Panik/ZAR/Rust around... that would probably work better for everyone involved. Not really sure how the lineup would look... I mean we're really really full... but I'd still try to do something like that.

Guentzel - Crosby - Panik/ZAR/Sprong/Simon
Hagelin - Malkin - Hornqvist
Panik/ZAR - Brassard - Kessel
Rust - Sheahan - Panik/ZAR/Sprong/Simon*
Sprong/Simon - Kuhnhackl

* and yes I do not care if that 4th line costs us 7.5-9m. It would still be worth every penny.

Even now, looking at all the lineup's we're putting together... I do not see us having a "skill issue". But I do think we have way too many players that are too similar. Sheary, Guentzel, Kessel, Simon... add in Sprong... Those are 5 fast skilled guys, who are not really physical and who's defensive game is suspect at best. And only two of them have an offensive game (at least currently) that allows for their D game to be suspect or marginal.

Edit. On that last point. Say what you want about Kunitz and Fehr... but those guys were very sound defensively (for the most part), and added variety /mix to our roster, personal wise. And Kunitz especially would frequently make those smart little touch plays that would give someone (87/71/x) the puck with speed going through the neutral zone. We're not seeing as much of that this season as we did in the past. Better recently, but that's one (one of the very few) things I miss from Kunitz.

 

[Shaffer]

Brassard/Kessel need a grindy, two way forward on their line, hence the reason I want ZAR there. He can clean up the rebounds, cycle along the boards, and create space for Brassard/Kessel.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

I think their are so many variables into the equation right now..I know I'll get shit for this BUT
Right now my dreamy combos are:
ZAR/Guentzel-Crosby-Rust/Sprong
Hagelin-Malkin-Horny
ZAR/Guentzel-Brassard-Kessel
Sheary-Sheahan-Rust/Sprong

4 scoring lines.

Contracts/trades for 18-19 (approx cap space after each based upon 78 Mil)*all contingent on remaining games performance
I would trade Sheary for whatever pick you could get this year. Hopefully he improves enough people find value for him before the draft. (10.7)
I would try to sign Sprong at ~2X3 (8.7)
I would try to sign Rust at ~2.5X3(6.2)
I would try to Sign Big Rig at ~2X3 (4.2)
I would try to sign Jarry at 2x3 (2.2) * Not sure, but decent for a back-up if DeSmith looks shaky
I would try to Sign Sheahan 1-1.5x3(.7-1.2) Options here 4th line center
I would see what interest there(draft) is for Simon, if none then remains an AHLer/middler for someone else

Alternate paths
Sprong, the clock was started on him in 15-16. So, if you are not going to sign him as an investment piece you move him for a draft pick. If you remove him from the equation then possibly Guentzel extension or even look for a RW you could sign for the 4th line and stay steady on Rust.

Rust could probably get more from another team looking for speed, but I think you give it a shot sooner than later to sign him.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Id do that in the playoffs too...

Guentzel - Crosby - Sprong
Hagelin - Malkin - Hornqvist
ZAR - Brassard - Kessel
Sheary - Sheahan - Rust

Simon/Kuhn/Rowney/Jooris

We are still going to see Kuhn and Rowney in the playoffs, hopefully not at the same time. But they are more valuable in the post season than in the regular season , when intensity is up. Blocking shots. Something youre not going to see alot of in the regular season risking injury. Come playoff time we are going to need players like Sheahan , Kuhn/Rowney/Jooris(when in there) to go all out in that area.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

One senario

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Hagelin-Malkin-Hornqvist
ZAR-Brassard-Kessel
Sheary-Sheahan-Jooris

If they decide Spring is ready bump rust into Jooris,s spot and put Sprong with Crosby.

 

[Riptide]

Contracts/trades for 18-19 (approx cap space after each based upon 78 Mil)*all contingent on remaining games performance
I would trade Sheary for whatever pick you could get this year. Hopefully he improves enough people find value for him before the draft. (10.7)
I would try to sign Sprong at ~2X3 (8.7)
I would try to sign Rust at ~2.5X3(6.2)
I would try to Sign Big Rig at ~2X3 (4.2)
I would try to sign Jarry at 2x3 (2.2) * Not sure, but decent for a back-up if DeSmith looks shaky
I would try to Sign Sheahan 1-1.5x3(.7-1.2) Options here 4th line center
I would see what interest there(draft) is for Simon, if none then remains an AHLer/middler for someone else

Alternate paths
Sprong, the clock was started on him in 15-16. So, if you are not going to sign him as an investment piece you move him for a draft pick. If you remove him from the equation then possibly Guentzel extension or even look for a RW you could sign for the 4th line and stay steady on Rust.

Rust could probably get more from another team looking for speed, but I think you give it a shot sooner than later to sign him.

Those contracts are all kind of wacky.

Sprong won't get more than 1m. Likely 2x900k type of deal.
Rust is likely in that 2.5-3.5m range (term dependent), however I suspect it'll be under 3m.
Jarry isn't getting more than 1m. At least not based on his season so far. Think 2x800k type of deal.

These 3 ^^ will cost less than 5.5m combined. The next two will get interesting.

Olek. Probably in the 2-3m range (term dependent). Could be less if it's a shorter deal.
Sheahan. Same deal. 2.2m is his QO. Could be less... but based on his season so far, I'm expecting it to be closer to 2.5/3m. And whatever it is.... I'd get it signed.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

Those contracts are all kind of wacky.

Sprong won't get more than 1m. Likely 2x900k type of deal.
Rust is likely in that 2.5-3.5m range (term dependent), however I suspect it'll be under 3m.
Jarry isn't getting more than 1m. At least not based on his season so far. Think 2x800k type of deal.

These 3 ^^ will cost less than 5.5m combined. The next two will get interesting.

Olek. Probably in the 2-3m range (term dependent). Could be less if it's a shorter deal.
Sheahan. Same deal. 2.2m is his QO. Could be less... but based on his season so far, I'm expecting it to be closer to 2.5/3m. And whatever it is.... I'd get it signed.

Okay, Sprong I could see lower, but I think if it's less than 1.5 he shops it. It's probably a moot point if they don't bring him up next for good.
Jarry, I think some of depends on how much he has to do the rest of the year. If he's solid and becomes their Number one for the next month or so that changes it a bit. This is what I was essentially what I was thinking. If he looks not so good and fumbles around the rest of the year in WBS, then yes I can see your figure.

Just my thoughts.

 

[TimmyD]

I would call Sprong up to see if he can put some jump in Sid’s step like his first call up

Guentzel Sid Sprong
Hagelin Malkin Hornqvist/Rust
ZAR Brassard Kessel
Sheary Sheahan Rust/Hornqvist

I might consider playing Hornqvist with Sheary and Sheahan because that line looked great earlier in the year and I think HGR is a pretty good line as well

 

[TimmyD]

One senario

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Hagelin-Malkin-Hornqvist
ZAR-Brassard-Kessel
Sheary-Sheahan-Jooris

If they decide Spring is ready bump rust into Jooris,s spot and put Sprong with Crosby.

Agree with this lineup if Sprong is not getting a call up. I would prefer swapping Hornqvist and Rust but we all know that isn’t going to happen unfortunately. With that being said I think this is currently our best lineup and it looks pretty solid

 

[Riptide]

Okay, Sprong I could see lower, but I think if it's less than 1.5 he shops it. It's probably a moot point if they don't bring him up next for good.
Jarry, I think some of depends on how much he has to do the rest of the year. If he's solid and becomes their Number one for the next month or so that changes it a bit. This is what I was essentially what I was thinking. If he looks not so good and fumbles around the rest of the year in WBS, then yes I can see your figure.

Sprong can't shop it. He's an RFA with zero leverage. He has 3 choices. Sign with PIT, sign in Europe/AHL only deal, sit out. He can't go to arbitration. Other than perhaps the KHL, those deals will all pay less than a 2 yr 1 way (which is likely what he gets) NHL deal will pay him. And based on his season so far (even if he were to play the remaining games), he just won't have done enough to get any sort of contract. So based on his draft position and potential, it's likely he gets something like what Bennet received (2x800k).

Same thing with Jarry. At least he has played more with some decent numbers. But unless he plays 15-20 games or wins us a series/cup... odds are he's getting typical goalie 2nd contract numbers... which at the high end will probably be less than 1m. I looked at a bunch of goalies (Bernier, Varly, Marazk, Grubauer, Schneider, Holtby)... and the only guys getting more then 1m either played outstanding in the POs (AHL/NHL) or played a LOT of games while on their ELC. Varly got 3x2.8m... however he had played 80 games on his ELC. Holtby got 1.85m, however he played 14 PO games the year before with outstanding numbers (1.95/.935), and continued that into the following season before getting his extension. Howard had played 150+ NHL games before he made 1m+. Grubauer finally hit 1m+... after playing 68 NHL games.

Bottom line... Jarry won't have played enough to get big bucks. I mean how many games do you see him playing over the rest of the RS? We have 19 games. Figure he plays 5-6 of these? DeSmith will likely get a couple as well, and I do not see MM being out all that long (although you never know). Maybe he can translate 25 games or so into 1m+... but most have not. And the only one that did (Bernier) had truely outstanding AHL numbers.

For most young players, the money they earn on this contract, isn't the big raise... it's the guaranteed 1 way deal. That's their "raise/bonus". They sign relatively low cap hit deals with a couple years on them (2-3) and their raise/benefit is the fact that even if they spend part of the year in the minors, they're still getting 600-800k vs the 60-90k they were getting last year. The team does it because if they work out at the NHL level, they cost nothing cap wise.

 

[Riptide]

Agree with this lineup if Sprong is not getting a call up. I would prefer swapping Hornqvist and Rust but we all know that isn’t going to happen unfortunately. With that being said I think this is currently our best lineup and it looks pretty solid

It happened in the FLA game. Came out flat in the 1st, and we saw Sheary - Crosby - Hornqvist to start the 2nd.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

Sprong can't shop it. He's an RFA with zero leverage. He has 3 choices. Sign with PIT, sign in Europe/AHL only deal, sit out. He can't go to arbitration. Other than perhaps the KHL, those deals will all pay less than a 2 yr 1 way (which is likely what he gets) NHL deal will pay him. And based on his season so far (even if he were to play the remaining games), he just won't have done enough to get any sort of contract. So based on his draft position and potential, it's likely he gets something like what Bennet received (2x800k).

Same thing with Jarry. At least he has played more with some decent numbers. But unless he plays 15-20 games or wins us a series/cup... odds are he's getting typical goalie 2nd contract numbers... which at the high end will probably be less than 1m. I looked at a bunch of goalies (Bernier, Varly, Marazk, Grubauer, Schneider, Holtby)... and the only guys getting more then 1m either played outstanding in the POs (AHL/NHL) or played a LOT of games while on their ELC. Varly got 3x2.8m... however he had played 80 games on his ELC. Holtby got 1.85m, however he played 14 PO games the year before with outstanding numbers (1.95/.935), and continued that into the following season before getting his extension. Howard had played 150+ NHL games before he made 1m+. Grubauer finally hit 1m+... after playing 68 NHL games.

Bottom line... Jarry won't have played enough to get big bucks. I mean how many games do you see him playing over the rest of the RS? We have 19 games. Figure he plays 5-6 of these? DeSmith will likely get a couple as well, and I do not see MM being out all that long (although you never know).

For most young players, the money they earn on this contract, isn't the big raise... it's the guaranteed 1 way deal. That's their "raise/bonus". They sign relatively low cap hit deals with a couple years on them (2-3) and their raise/benefit is the fact that even if they spend part of the year in the minors, they're still getting 600-800k vs the 60-90k they were getting last year. The team does it because if they work out at the NHL level, they cost nothing cap wise.

Oh thank you for helping me to understand the RFA portion. Not kidding. I thought the Pens would have to make a qualifying offer, but the player could reject it and shop the offer. I hope that Jarry doesn't have to play anywhere near that much..just prepping my mind for the worst case scenario. Would be fantastic if we really could lock up those two in my little world. (such a big fan of Sprong). Then again I was a big fan of Tangradi and Pouliot. lol

 

[Riptide]

Oh thank you for helping me to understand the RFA portion. Not kidding. I thought the Pens would have to make a qualifying offer, but the player could reject it and shop the offer. I hope that Jarry doesn't have to play anywhere near that much..just prepping my mind for the worst case scenario. Would be fantastic if we really could lock up those two in my little world. (such a big fan of Sprong). Then again I was a big fan of Tangradi and Pouliot. lol

They can when they're older. Rust, Sheahan and even Olek for example could reject his QO and then see if he could get other offers after 07/01. But players can't do that right off the start unless they've played enough games/seasons, and Sprong and Jarry will not have gotten there yet. And even then, it's rarely done, because teams would need to overpay to get PIT to walk away. It's why it's rarely done, and usually only with high level players - someone you can justify overpaying by 1m or more.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Oh thank you for helping me to understand the RFA portion. Not kidding. I thought the Pens would have to make a qualifying offer, but the player could reject it and shop the offer. I hope that Jarry doesn't have to play anywhere near that much..just prepping my mind for the worst case scenario. Would be fantastic if we really could lock up those two in my little world. (such a big fan of Sprong). Then again I was a big fan of Tangradi and Pouliot. lol

Unless there is some special quailification for Sprong (age maybe) he can BUT...

Nhl GMs really dont sign other teams RFAs.

Pittsburgh would match it anyway.

 

[TimmyD]

It happened in the FLA game. Came out flat in the 1st, and we saw Sheary - Crosby - Hornqvist to start the 2nd.

I noticed that but I thought it really only lasted 1 or 2 shifts?

 

[Riptide]

I noticed that but I thought it really only lasted 1 or 2 shifts?

I honestly can't remember. I know Malkin/Rust combined for a goal, but I really can't remember exactly what the lines looked like.

 

[Shaffer]

Sheary looks his best next to Hornqvist. I wouldn’t be opposed to Sheary-Sheahan-Hornqvist IF HGH isn’t working and Rust doesn’t work with Crosby . . . again.

Guentzel-Crosby-Sprong
Hagelin-Malkin-Rust
ZAR-Brassard-Kessel
Sheary-Sheahan-Hornqvist

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I honestly can't remember. I know Malkin/Rust combined for a goal, but I really can't remember exactly what the lines looked like.

It seems like Sullivan eventually gets to the right combinations AFTER the Pens are trailing or when they've looked horrible for 2 periods, but doesn't seem to want to start the game with those combos or carry them over to the next game.

It's weird.

 

[HandshakeLine]

It seems like Sullivan eventually gets to the right combinations AFTER the Pens are trailing or when they've looked horrible for 2 periods, but doesn't seem to want to start the game with those combos or carry them over to the next game.

It's weird.

Maybe he's just using this time to try out combinations for the POs? My mom always said I was an optimist.

 

[Riptide]

Sheary looks his best next to Hornqvist. I wouldn’t be opposed to Sheary-Sheahan-Hornqvist IF HGH isn’t working and Rust doesn’t work with Crosby . . . again.

Guentzel-Crosby-Sprong
Hagelin-Malkin-Rust
ZAR-Brassard-Kessel
Sheary-Sheahan-Hornqvist

ZAR is apparently out for a while. Not really sure who I'd put in there. Probably Kuhnhackl. That said... that lineup looks pretty good.

Guentzel - Crosby - Sprong
Hagelin - Malkin - Hornqvist
Rust - Brassard - Kessel
Sheary - Sheahan - Kuhnhackl/Jooris

OF course we all know that Sprong won't be called up, and Sheary or Rust will get that spot, and Rowney will get Sheary's spot on the 4th line.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Maybe he's just using this time to try out combinations for the POs? My mom always said I was an optimist.

Maybe. But if that were the case, why not try certain players on the PK unit so he knows whether or not he has to take up two roster spots on Dumb & Dumber just to PK?

Don't mind me. I'm just bitter that after all the excitement of the deadline acquiring Brassard, Sullivan insists on icing a 4th line that is WORSE than the one we had prior to the deadline.

 

[Andy99]

ZAR is apparently out for a while. Not really sure who I'd put in there. Probably Kuhnhackl. That said... that lineup looks pretty good.

Guentzel - Crosby - Sprong
Hagelin - Malkin - Hornqvist
Rust - Brassard - Kessel
Sheary - Sheahan - Kuhnhackl/Jooris

OF course we all know that Sprong won't be called up, and Sheary or Rust will get that spot, and Rowney will get Sheary's spot on the 4th line.

No he won't be unfortunately. But you just know that Kuhn is going to be promoted to 3rd line LW next to Brassard given Sheary's problems and Sully's love of that grinder....I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up next to Sid next game...