RW Patrik Laine - Tappara, Liiga (2016 Draft) IV

[FiLe]

No need to worry at this point unless something dramatic happens in Laine's current game form.

Rule number one when predicting a WHC team: Never, ever assume that your train of thought travels on the same rails as the coach does.

I don't tell anyone to agree with that scenario, let alone think it's what one should personally prefer. I don't necessarily agree with it either. However, not recognizing its plausibility is one of the most foolish things is one could do. Or has history not taught you anything?

 

[kunekune]

Yes, and this is why he should get his chance before more people are coming from the NHL. If he doesn't get a chance to show his worth he probably will be out (and might be even if he gets a try). I don't know if it would be the winning strategy, but if I was the coach I would rather take my chances with Laine (big risk, big potential gain) than go for a "safe" pick (low risk, unlikely to get anything special). But, as we know, risk taking isn't really the mindset with most coaches.

KJ already said everybody joining the team from FEL/SHL/KHL finals are guaranteed a spot in the final roster.

 

[kunekune]

Rule number one when predicting a WHC team: Never, ever assume that your train of thought travels on the same rails as the coach does.

I don't tell anyone to agree with that scenario, let alone think it's what one should personally prefer. I don't necessarily agree with it either. However, not recognizing its plausibility is one of the most foolish things is one could do. Or has history not taught you anything?

Everything is plausible. Aho and Rantanen could be ahead of Laine in KJ's mind for top6 winger position but most likely they are not.

 

[FiLe]

Aho and Rantanen could be ahead of Laine in KJ's mind for top6 winger position but most likely they are not.

I wish people would stop labeling their gut feelings with words like "most likely".

The truth is that coaches put extra scrutiny on junior age players, and find it relatively easy to cut them. Is that always right? By no means. But it's a thing that happens quite often regardless.

 

[kelsier]

Rule number one when predicting a WHC team: Never, ever assume that your train of thought travels on the same rails as the coach does.

I don't tell anyone to agree with that scenario, let alone think it's what one should personally prefer. I don't necessarily agree with it either. However, not recognizing its plausibility is one of the most foolish things is one could do. Or has history not taught you anything?

Would it be better then to start hitting panic button due to Laine not scoring in the last couple of games or feed people with worst case scenarios? Already made a remark about future not written in the stone. Not worrying isn't equal to neglecting the possibilities. After all, we aren't gifted with prescience. Anything can happen, including a season ending injury.

 

[FiLe]

Would it be better then to start hitting panic button due to Laine not scoring in the last couple of games or feed people with worst case scenarios?

No, but a dose of realism would not hurt either. Laine has a shot. Whether that shot actually amounts to a ticket being punched is still anybody's guess.

Saying it's "likely" he'll make it is false, because it'd be no shock either if he does not make it. It's not agreeable to many, but currently there are indeed many players the coach could plausibly favor over him. Any of the names I mentioned making it and Laine not making it would not require any kind of miracle.

 

[kelsier]

No, but a dose of realism would not hurt either. Laine has a shot. Whether that shot actually amounts to a ticket being punched is still anybody's guess.

Saying it's "likely" he'll make it is false, because it'd be no shock either if he does not make it. It's not agreeable to many, but currently there are indeed many players the coach could plausibly favor over him. Any of the names I mentioned making it and Laine not making it would not require any kind of miracle.

Miracle? Well we can find all sorts of synonyms for that word for sure. There were a couple of players on the list with slim, small to none, chances. There's always X factors involved with every single candidate, but that doesn't necessarely make a good cause to provoke hysteria. Jalonen commented that both Aho and "you know who" will have a chance to get that ticket. There's absolutely no reason to think his thoughts regarding Laine would have changed. Precaution is anybody's choise if you absolutely want to avoid a collision course with disappointment. Nevertheless, these speculations are far, far too early.

 

[FiLe]

Miracle? Well we can find all sorts of synonyms for that word for sure. There were a couple of players on the list with slim, small to none, chances.

Only one with little to no chance there I see is Ruutu. All the euro names I mentioned are plausible, even to a degree to take preference.

And no, Pulkkinen making it is not a long shot either. I've covered it earlier why, so I won't go there again. I'll just say this: If he becomes available (as appears likely), Jalonen will pick him. Mark my words.

And even if you wish to dismiss Pulu, the list of players who are available and can take preference over Laine for a winger spot is now eight strong, with the addition of Rantanen. All it takes is one more, and there certainly are still candidates.

 

[kelsier]

Only one with little to no chance there I see is Ruutu. All the euro names I mentioned are plausible, even to a degree to take preference.

And no, Pulkkinen making it is not a long shot either. I've covered it earlier why, so I won't go there again. I'll just say this: If he becomes available (as appears likely), Jalonen will pick him. Mark my words.

And even if you wish to dismiss Pulu, the list of players who are available and can take preference over Laine for a winger spot is now eight strong, with the addition of Rantanen. All it takes is one more, and there certainly are still candidates.

Jalonen would not take Pulkkinen either, a player who's played half a season and if you look at the ice time, barely even that. So not a chance. If he manages to prove me wrong, then well I guess that's just one more reason or excuse not to bother to tune in. You're listing names invited to a camp. No team goes on road without a full roster. That doesn't guarantee any one of those players are ahead of Laine (even if few of them are) while only a few guys have been promised a slot. "All it takes..", yes, hockey is that kind of a game. Applies to an OT goal, freak injury, basically anything and at the same time nothing.

 

[kunekune]

And even if you wish to dismiss Pulu, the list of players who are available and can take preference over Laine for a winger spot is now eight strong, with the addition of Rantanen. All it takes is one more, and there certainly are still candidates.

You could also say that there is only one winger who's above Laine in KJs papers.

Saying things like Jormakka being above Laine is way crazier than saying Laine is a lock. Last week it was Elo and Saarela who were above Laine and this week it is Jormakka & Co.

About Rantanens situasation:

- Mikko lähtee Leijona-paitaan, mutta onko hän MM-kisoissa, se on Kari Jalosen ja Jere Lehtisen päätettävissä, Lehto kertoo.

http://yle.fi/urheilu/mikko_rantasen_agenttikasivamma_nayttaa_helpottavan/8824696

 

[FiLe]

Jalonen would not take Pulkkinen either, a player who's played half a season and if you look at the ice time, barely even that. So not a chance.

*sigh* Why do you people just look at the fact that Pulkkinen has been benched and think that's all there is, and ignore the actual cirumcstances behind his benching? First of all, he was doing just fine early into the season before his injury. It's just that the Wings' coach found a more preferable lineup in his absence, and Pulkkinen was benched as a result.

What normally happens to a young player in a situation like that? They get sent to the AHL. Well, in Pulkkinen's case that was not an option, since he's not waiver exempt. Had it been, I bet he would have showed us all he's still the same Pulu most of would have been happy to have last year. In fact, his benching was, in a way, a vote of confidence from his employer towards his abilities, since had they believed he's not of interest to other teams, they would have risked the waivers.

Simply put, there's zero evidence that Pulkkinen's benching was because he has somehow regressed from last season. He was a victim of circumstance. The NHL is a harsh business like that sometimes. Regardless, it's a pretty tall ladder one has to climb to make it to even as far as Pulkkinen has, and unless the coach is already drowning in established NHL talent, he'd be insane to scoff at a player like that.

 

[HockeyHistorian]

*sigh* Why do you people just look at the fact that Pulkkinen has been benched and think that's all there is, and ignore the actual cirumcstances behind his benching? First of all, he was doing just fine early into the season before his injury. It's just that the Wings' coach found a more preferable lineup in his absence, and Pulkkinen was benched as a result.

What normally happens to a young player in a situation like that? They get sent to the AHL. Well, in Pulkkinen's case that was not an option, since he's not waiver exempt. Had it been, I bet he would have showed us all he's still the same Pulu most of would have been happy to have last year. In fact, his benching was, in a way, a vote of confidence from his employer towards his abilities, since had they believed he's not of interest to other teams, they would have risked the waivers.

Simply put, there's zero evidence that Pulkkinen's benching was because he has somehow regressed from last season. He was a victim of circumstance. The NHL is a harsh business like that sometimes. Regardless, it's a pretty tall ladder one has to climb to make it to even as far as Pulkkinen has, and unless the coach is already drowning in established NHL talent, he'd be insane to scoff at a player like that.

This. In my opinion Blashill hasn't given even a half of a fair chance to Pulkkinen this year. Before his injury he was nonetheless on a pace to score over 20 goals.

I actually want both Pulkkinen and Laine on the team. Would be pretty nice to have two PP weapons of that caliber. Pulkkinen is an excellent player and he doesn't have any glaring deficiencies in his game. Sure, he could be stronger and faster so that he would be a more efficient grinder, but I doubt that we are short in the grinding department.

 

[FiLe]

You could also say that there is only one winger who's above Laine in KJs papers.

It doesn't matter whether Laine is the second or last man to be picked, all that matters is that he does get picked. Doubly more so because there'll never be confirmation whether he was a strong candidate or not, that's all in your heads.

What we will know in a couple of weeks however was that he was either picked or not. And as of right now, both outcomes are certainly perfectly within reason.

And Rantanen's agent saying Rantanen doesn't have a sure spot is no indicator whether he really does or not. Because it's not the agent's job to make that kind of announcements. So you wasted good bytespace with that quote.

 

[kelsier]

*sigh* Why do you people just look at the fact that Pulkkinen has been benched and think that's all there is, and ignore the actual cirumcstances behind his benching? First of all, he was doing just fine early into the season before his injury. It's just that the Wings' coach found a more preferable lineup in his absence, and Pulkkinen was benched as a result.

What normally happens to a young player in a situation like that? They get sent to the AHL. Well, in Pulkkinen's case that was not an option, since he's not waiver exempt. Had it been, I bet he would have showed us all he's still the same Pulu most of would have been happy to have last year. In fact, his benching was, in a way, a vote of confidence from his employer towards his abilities, since had they believed he's not of interest to other teams, they would have risked the waivers.

Simply put, there's zero evidence that Pulkkinen's benching was because he has somehow regressed from last season. He was a victim of circumstance. The NHL is a harsh business like that sometimes. Regardless, it's a pretty tall ladder one has to climb to make it to even as far as Pulkkinen has, and unless the coach is already drowning in established NHL talent, he'd be insane to scoff at a player like that.

I don't particularly enjoy the fact he has been benched. Quite the contrary actually. In a different team he would play in a different role and could turn into a valuable asset in the long run. He still needs NHL conditioning, but it's becoming evermore clear that it's not going to happen in Detroit. Wouldn't be tad bit suprised if they traded him in the draft. He still has potential and could turn out one of the better goal scorers in the league. Pulkkinen being a bad player wasn't the point. But rather the fact that this season isn't his and trying to bring the best out of him in the championships after being benched half the season wouldn't be a great idea. Not only due personal preference but also due to Laine being more "hot" and on the streak I'd take him with ease over Pulkkinen into St Petersburg.

 

[FiLe]

But rather the fact that this season isn't his and trying to bring the best out of him in the championships after being benched half the season wouldn't be a great idea. Not only due personal preference but also due to Laine being more "hot" and on the streak I'd take him with ease over Pulkkinen into St Petersburg.

If we're talking personal preferences, I won't argue with this. But if we're talking KJ's preferences, we have to admit that he could certainly see the issue in any plausible manner.

Laine has, despite all he has done, still plenty of typical young-player deficiencies in his game, the kind that Pulkkinen does not. They tend to get overshadowed by the fact that the thing he is good at is pretty visible part of hockey. However, when you look at him as a coach, you still have to ponder the question, "Are the assets he brings worth it, given his deficiencies?"

And this is where both solutions hold equal value as outcomes. Either Jalonen & co will, after long consideration, decide that "yes, they are", or "no, they are not, we have other players who can fill his role, without the deficiencies".

Now, nothing would personally delight me more than having them arrive to the positive conclusion. But like I said, not thinking the negative one can't happen - or that it has somehow lesser probability - is pretty foolish regardless.

 

[snipes]

Laine better be at the World Championship.

 

[kelsier]

If we're talking personal preferences, I won't argue with this. But if we're talking KJ's preferences, we have to admit that he could certainly see the issue in any plausible manner.

Laine has, despite all he has done, still plenty of typical young-player deficiencies in his game, the kind that Pulkkinen does not. They tend to get overshadowed by the fact that the thing he is good at is pretty visible part of hockey. However, when you look at him as a coach, you still have to ponder the question, "Are the assets he brings worth it, given his deficiencies?"

And this is where both solutions hold equal value as outcomes. Either Jalonen & co will, after long consideration, decide that "yes, they are", or "no, they are not, we have other players who can fill his role, without the deficiencies".

Now, nothing would personally delight me more than having them arrive to the positive conclusion. But like I said, not thinking the negative one can't happen - or that it has somehow lesser possibility - is pretty foolish regardless.

All players are but human, and all humans have their pros and cons. Yet there's nothing foolish about being optimistic without crossing unrealistic fences. Though being young Laine really isn't a reliability amongst the grown ups and brings more to the table than most even while disregarding the entertainment value. While watching the playoff series the guy has motor running for both ends and has proven to be quite relentless back-checker. As I said, unless something happens that affects his overall gameplay, he should be on the plane no questions asked. Finland needs atleast one guy who knows how to put the puck into the net and is capable of handling pressure while playing in the high stakes. There's no point running circles here. Now, can't tell you not to be cautios as it's your god given right but let's not blow this out of proportion.

 

[Gsus]

Laine better be at the World Championship.

He has to be there no question. Best finnish goal scorer right now with the best shot. There's many young players already chosen compared to other World Champs' Finland rosters. There is just no chance he doesn't get to wear the jersey there. And if there is the finnish coach Jalonen needs some .

 

[Mestaruus]

I'm afraid you might be right and that's one of the reasons I hope he would make it to the NT training camp sooner rather than later. The current Tappara system and team performance don't allow him to play to his strengths.

Exactly. I hope the series ends in 5 games unless Laine is the one scoring and deciding the games, which doesn't seem very likely with that center Järvinen.

 

[Woodhouse]

1000+ so onto the next thread: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=117185545