RW/LW Vasili Podkolzin (2019, 10th, VAN) Part 4

[John Johnson]

99% of players will get more assists than goals simply due to how much easier it is to get assists (hello secondary assists), which should be pretty obvious and not something I should have to spell out. Yet even so Podkolzin is barely capable of that, which is kinda my whole point...

Lol why are you being so condescending and petty? I'm not even saying you're wrong, I'm just trying to have a normal discussion with you. Of course you will call someone stupid for even remotely responding or challenging your post in the slightest. Get over yourself.

 

[nucksflailtogether]

He has literally 1 assist in 19 games. That's really bad.

"Very limited minutes", he's been playing at minimum 10:54 and at most 16:23 minutes in the last 11 games, i.e. more than half of his appearances so far. That's not "very limited" minutes. He's simply not a good playmaker.

Yes, his atrocious pace of 1 assist per 19 games is not going to continue forever, it will obviously improve over time, but he's extremely unlikely to ever be a high-end playmaker in the NHL. There's literally zero evidence of that, but somehow the excuses keep coming. It's always everyone but Podkolzin's fault

Are you aware of what team he plays on? Last night his centre was Petterson, and that's not a good thing.

 

[Zaddy]

Again, it isn't his weakness, it's consistent with his overall offensive ability and playstyle. You are throwing this "people said" straw man again and again yet once again, I challenge you to use the search function and find the posts suggesting he is "very good" playmaker in the sense you are trying to picture it.

I love how you think you know better than me what argument I was part of in the past. I'm not gonna sift through hundreds of posts just to prove someone wrong on the internet lmao. It's there if you search for it.

 

[Zaddy]

Lol why are you being so condescending and petty? I'm not even saying you're wrong, I'm just trying to have a normal discussion with you. Of course you will call someone stupid for even remotely responding or challenging your post in the slightest. Get over yourself.

I didn't call anyone stupid. It's just tiring to have people argue in bad faith against you. Seemed like you were doing that hence my response. If that was not the case then my apologies.

 

[SoundAndFury]

No idea how you deduced that from my post. I'm talking about his entire career he's never been producing many assists, which lines up with what I see when I watch him play, he's simply not a good playmaker. I have the evidence on my side here and it's up to Podkolzin to prove me wrong (and you guys right) by actual producing a lot of assists at any point during his career, which has yet to happen.

Because you have stated:

1) He won't get many assists.
2) He will still get more assists than goals because that's how hockey works.

So at this point, you either don't know what you are saying yourself, or are suggesting he is an offensive bust 19 games into his NHL career.

 

[Zaddy]

Are you aware of what team he plays on? Last night his centre was Petterson, and that's not a good thing.

Certainly. I'm sure if Canucks wasn't a tire-fire this year he'd have picked up a couple of more assists, but if he had 4 assists on a good team instead of 1 on a bad team, what's really the difference?

 

[SoundAndFury]

Certainly. I'm sure if Canucks wasn't a tire-fire this year he'd have picked up a couple of more assists, but if he had 4 assists on a good team instead of 1 on a bad team, what's really the difference?

He would have 8 points in 19 games which is actually a very good pace for a rookie in his first 19 NHL games?

 

[Zaddy]

Because you have stated:

1) He won't get many assists.
2) He will still get more assists than goals because that's how hockey works.

So at this point, you either don't know what you are saying yourself, or are suggesting he is an offensive bust 19 games into his NHL career.

That's not a contradiction at all. Everyone except the purest of goalscorers gets more assists than goals every year. I expect Podkolzin to get something like 30 assists in his prime and goalscoring will vary from year to year, probably being around 20-25 goals in a normal year. 30 assists in the last full season we had (18/19) would've landed you 111th in assists in the NHL.

And that was me being generous, it wouldn't surprise me if he is closer to 20-25 assists than 30 in most years, depending on who he plays with and what kind of ice-time he gets obviously.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

The

Elite =/= very good playmaker, which people indeed argued he was. Dunno why you dare me to come up with that poster since I literally had that argument a couple of years ago on these boards. Wasn't just that one guy either who argued Podkolzin was a legit playmaker and that it wasn't a weakness of his.



Yeah that's funny considering I commented a lot about Podkolzin's play in his draft year and posted actual clips that I recorded from his play to illustrate my point but nice try buddy.

the fact that you qualify having "posted clips from his draft year" as classifying as "watched him" just illustrates you haven't watched him lately.

he has been playing with people that don't score. after you watch him, paints a different story than the stats. this isn't a hard concept and your insistence on being right about a hot take you made in his draft year suggests you're hubris based analysis should try a more objective approach. start by watching him play

 

[orcatown]

Glimmer of hope in a sea of total darkness

Actually Podkolzin has shown an ability to make excellent passes around the net. Few times he has set up tap ins by making the extra pass but caught teammates unaware. I believe his thinking is sometimes ahead of the players he's put with or sometimes players are just not familiar with his style. Also, most of the season, Podkolzin has been with players like Dickinson who has been brutally bad or with other non scorers. Really there has been nothing wrong with the way Poskolzin has moved the puck and would be interesting to see what he would do if he could get on a line with some playing making country man. Maybe the Canucks can pick up someone like that in the draft if they continue on their present nose dive.

 

[Zaddy]

The


the fact that you qualify having "posted clips from his draft year" as classifying as "watched him" just illustrates you haven't watched him lately.

he has been playing with people that don't score. after you watch him, paints a different story than the stats. this isn't a hard concept and your insistence on being right about a hot take you made in his draft year suggests you're hubris based analysis should try a more objective approach. start by watching him play

Always love people saying that the stats doesn't tell the whole story when the stats has been the same year after year. At some point the sample size is big enough that it actually does depict reality in a truthful manner. Of course he's not going to keep scoring only 1 assist per 19 games, that should be obvious, but he's never going to score 40+ assists in the NHL, he just doesn't have that kind of talent.

This discussion reminds me a lot of the Yakupov discussions of old. It was always everyone elses but his fault that he wasn't producing. Bad coaches, bad linemates, bad everything. Never Yakupov's fault. And no, I'm not saying Podkolzin will bust out of the NHL like Yak did, just that both guys' talent were overrated compared to their actual ability.

 

[SoundAndFury]

That's not a contradiction at all. Everyone except the purest of goalscorers gets more assists than goals every year. I expect Podkolzin to get something like 30 assists in his prime and goalscoring will vary from year to year, probably being around 20-25 goals in a normal year. 30 assists in the last full season we had (18/19) would've landed you 111th in assists in the NHL.

And that was me being generous, it wouldn't surprise me if he is closer to 20-25 assists than 30 in most years, depending on who he plays with and what kind of ice-time he gets obviously.

So you basically went from saying "he won't have any assists because his playmaking is bad, he can't use teammates hurp durp" to "he will be 20+30 player" which is maybe slightly pessimistic but everyone would generally agree with. A nice trip you have taken us on here.

And all based on the impression in your mind that "some Russian poster" suggested he is going to be 20+50 player or something two years ago which almost certainly has never happened in reality.

Always love people saying that the stats doesn't tell the whole story when the stats has been the same year after year. At some point the sample size is big enough that it actually does depict reality in a truthful manner.

Except that his stats year after year and 1 assist in 19 games (which is a pony you are trying to ride so hard) have no correlation whatsoever. Which you seem to admit half the time and go back to trying to prove its "meaningfulness" the other half.

 

[Zaddy]

So you basically went from saying "he won't have any assists because his playmaking is bad, he can't use teammates hurp durp" to "he will be 20+30 player" which is maybe slightly pessimistic but everyone would generally agree with. A nice trip you have taken us on here.

Or I haven't taken anyone on a trip but you simply read into my posts what you want to read into it. That's why I've been saying you guys argue in bad faith because you assume the worst from my replies. Non-Russian and non-Canucks fans replies to me in regards to Podkolzin are generally much more rational and neutral.

Like I'm simply saying he's a bad playmaker who is not good at using his teammates, but that's blasphemy for you guys.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Like I'm simply saying he's a bad playmaker who is not good at using his teammates, but that's blasphemy for you guys.

No, it's simply unclear at all what you are saying. Because 30 assists per year (which is your position and his career stats would support in general) is not being a bad playmaker. And if you do consider it to be bad when yeah, everyone agrees with you in a sense, that most middle-6 NHL forwards are really bad playmakers, evidently.

And you sticking "1 assist in 19 games" in here again and again, which is absolutely meaningless and even you admit it, just makes it even more confusing.

 

[staveNsteel]

Great, another bad faith argument.


That's not the definition of playmaking. He will get assists from his hustle no doubt, but he's not a particularly cerebral player.


No, but some people have been arguing since his draft year that he is in fact a very good playmaker when that has never been the case and he has yet to prove me wrong by actually racking up assists in a consistent manner for any extended period of time in any league or level of play. Assists are relatively easy to get in hockey so if he was actually a good playmaker it would've shown by now. I would be shocked if he ever got 40+ assists in an NHL season.

If assists were so easy to get in the NHL, all players would be getting 40+ assists. Definitely not a well thought out argument.

Also, playmaking comes in many different ways. Just because Podkolzin doesn't process the game the same way as Marner, doesn't mean that he is not a player who can make plays. He will provide assists by digging for pucks and finding the open man.. he will provide assists by holding the puck around the net until he can make a play, and he'll provide assists by making that pass to other players on the rush.

I think you're living in a world where NHL22 dictates the way you see a player. This guy is a Playmaker, this guy is a Sniper.. what's his XFactor?

Who knows if Podkolzin will ever get 40+ assists.. but maybe he does based on linemates, opportunity, TOI, PP time, etc.. he has good vision.. but no, he's not Marner, he's not Kane, he's not Henrik.. but that's ok.. noone thought that he would be!

 

[staveNsteel]

99% of players will get more assists than goals simply due to how much easier it is to get assists (hello secondary assists), which should be pretty obvious and not something I should have to spell out. Yet even so Podkolzin is barely capable of that, which is kinda my whole point...

Also, you're basing this off of the "career" of a 20yr old with 20 games of NHL experience, and a bunch of limited time in Russian mens leagues.

How about this... Chill out a bit, let the kid find his NHL feet for a consistent period of time, see what happens with his development after he's had the time to acclimate to North America for more than say, 6 months, and then... Let's take a look at what type of player he becomes. As it is now, you seem very much like the "what has he done for me lately" type... Well lately he's been earning more ice time for his strong play on the puck.. the more that happens.. guess what... The more opportunities he will have to get those "easy" assists that you're looking for.

 

[SoundAndFury]

No one:

Absolutely no one:

Zaddy: tHat gUY wH0 saId P0dK0LzIN wIll gEt 40+ aPPlEs iN a SE4s0N 2 YeARs agO wAs wR0ng & I fiNallY hAVe tHe eVIdeNc3 tO pR0Ve IT.

P.S. Man it is exhausting typing like that.

 

[Hoglander]

He's been inconsistent, but all around quite solid. He's made a lot of good plays and passes, Zaddy is as clueless as they come.

 

[Caser]

Over 1k posts here, so closing it and making a new thread here: RW/LW Vasili Podkolzin (2019, 10th, VAN) Part 5