RW/LW Vasili Podkolzin (2019, 10th, VAN) Part 4

[Zaddy]

1 assist through 19 games.

Always said he was a really poor playmaker yet a lot of people pushed back hard against it.

His offensive game has always been very one-dimensional, relying on his shot and hustle and not on smarts and passing.

Funny part is I remember some Russian poster arguing that his playmaking was in fact his strength and that his shot was a weakness

 

[Atas2000]

1 assist through 19 games.

Always said he was a really poor playmaker yet a lot of people pushed back hard against it.

His offensive game has always been very one-dimensional, relying on his shot and hustle and not on smarts and passing.

Funny part is I remember some Russian poster arguing that his playmaking was in fact his strength and that his shot was a weakness

Pretty weak argumentation of you claiming that after 19 games in most of which he was playing very limited minutes with let's say not the most skilled linemates. The shot is what comes through in the position he is put in right now.

 

[lawrence]

Benning compared him to Timo meier and I do see some similarities

he also compared juolevi to lidstrom.

To take benning word at face value anymore.

 

[Zaddy]

Pretty weak argumentation of you claiming that after 19 games in most of which he was playing very limited minutes with let's say not the most skilled linemates. The shot is what comes through in the position he is put in right now.

He has literally 1 assist in 19 games. That's really bad.

"Very limited minutes", he's been playing at minimum 10:54 and at most 16:23 minutes in the last 11 games, i.e. more than half of his appearances so far. That's not "very limited" minutes. He's simply not a good playmaker.

Yes, his atrocious pace of 1 assist per 19 games is not going to continue forever, it will obviously improve over time, but he's extremely unlikely to ever be a high-end playmaker in the NHL. There's literally zero evidence of that, but somehow the excuses keep coming. It's always everyone but Podkolzin's fault

 

[Atas2000]

He has literally 1 assist in 19 games. That's really bad.

"Very limited minutes", he's been playing at minimum 10:54 and at most 16:23 minutes in the last 11 games, i.e. more than half of his appearances so far. That's not "very limited" minutes. He's simply not a good playmaker.

Yes, his atrocious pace of 1 assist per 19 games is not going to continue forever, it will obviously improve over time, but he's extremely unlikely to ever be a high-end playmaker in the NHL. There's literally zero evidence of that, but somehow the excuses keep coming. It's always everyone but Podkolzin's fault

You don't see the obvious problem with your logic. Having 1 assist as a rookie playing limited minutes does NOT mean he is a bad playmaker. How many should he have? 20?

Nobody ever claimed he is an elite playmaker.

Also your claim that he is some dumb, one-dimensional shoot-first guy is pure nonsense.

 

[SoundAndFury]

1 assist through 19 games.

And Brad Marchand had 0 goals and 1 assist in 20 games his rookie year. Man, with conclusive evidence like this, the guy must be bad as both the shooter and the playmaker.

 

[kp61c]

And Brad Marchand had 0 goals and 1 assist in 20 games his rookie year. Man, with conclusive evidence like this, the guy must be bad as both the shooter and the playmaker.

It's not like Podkolzin was an offensive dynamo in the KHL. I'd say he is consistent in his productivity on ice.

 

[wings5]

Could become a smaller version of Nichushkin

 

[Love]

1 assist through 19 games.

Always said he was a really poor playmaker yet a lot of people pushed back hard against it.

His offensive game has always been very one-dimensional, relying on his shot and hustle and not on smarts and passing.

Funny part is I remember some Russian poster arguing that his playmaking was in fact his strength and that his shot was a weakness

Joe Thornton had 4 assists in his first 55 NHL games. I always knew he would be a poor playmaker. The idiots prior to the draft insisted it was one of his strengths but I knew better.

 

[Zaddy]

Yeah guys I'm obviously basing my whole analysis on these 19 games and not the past three years of play.

He has literally never proven to be a good playmaker at any level, but I guess he's supposed to developed into that now while playing in the best league in the world?

Stop arguing in bad faith. Bringing up a guy like Thornton that long before his NHL debut showed that he was an elite playmaker. The guy had 80 assists in his draft season. In what world is that even remotely comparable to Podkolzin? (who btw had 2 assists in 12 games in juniors in his draft year for comparison)

 

[Gstank]

Reall excited to see him and Hoglander grow over the next couple of season. Screw Petey and Boeser and their lack of effort all season

 

[staveNsteel]

Yeah guys I'm obviously basing my whole analysis on these 19 games and not the past three years of play.

He has literally never proven to be a good playmaker at any level, but I guess he's supposed to developed into that now while playing in the best league in the world?

Stop arguing in bad faith. Bringing up a guy like Thornton that long before his NHL debut showed that he was an elite playmaker. The guy had 80 assists in his draft season. In what world is that even remotely comparable to Podkolzin? (who btw had 2 assists in 12 games in juniors in his draft year for comparison)

Captain stat watch here may have overlooked the 1G 4A in 5gp for Russia, the 2G 9A in 18GP the year before.. the 4A in 2GP in the MHL the year before that.. based on your logic, this would define him as an elite playmaker would it not?!

Now if you actually watch Podkolzin on the ice, his playmaking comes from both battling and retrieving pucks along the boards and his play down low to find the open man.. both of which he has been doing well IN LIMITED MINUTES at the NHL level. And yes.. his minutes have been increasing, but he's had little powerplay time and limited exposure to quality linemates.

Noone is saying he's the next Henrik Sedin, but he has good vision and can make plays, as well as shoot. Overall, as long as he keeps getting the opportunity to do so, his game will grow!

 

[Zaddy]

Captain stat watch here may have overlooked the 1G 4A in 5gp for Russia, the 2G 9A in 18GP the year before.. the 4A in 2GP in the MHL the year before that.. based on your logic, this would define him as an elite playmaker would it not?!

Great, another bad faith argument.

Now if you actually watch Podkolzin on the ice, his playmaking comes from both battling and retrieving pucks along the boards and his play down low to find the open man.. both of which he has been doing well IN LIMITED MINUTES at the NHL level. And yes.. his minutes have been increasing, but he's had little powerplay time and limited exposure to quality linemates.

That's not the definition of playmaking. He will get assists from his hustle no doubt, but he's not a particularly cerebral player.

Noone is saying he's the next Henrik Sedin, but he has good vision and can make plays, as well as shoot. Overall, as long as he keeps getting the opportunity to do so, his game will grow!

No, but some people have been arguing since his draft year that he is in fact a very good playmaker when that has never been the case and he has yet to prove me wrong by actually racking up assists in a consistent manner for any extended period of time in any league or level of play. Assists are relatively easy to get in hockey so if he was actually a good playmaker it would've shown by now. I would be shocked if he ever got 40+ assists in an NHL season.

 

[John Johnson]

Great, another bad faith argument.


That's not the definition of playmaking. He will get assists from his hustle no doubt, but he's not a particularly cerebral player.


No, but some people have been arguing since his draft year that he is in fact a very good playmaker when that has never been the case and he has yet to prove me wrong by actually racking up assists in a consistent manner for any extended period of time in any league or level of play. Assists are relatively easy to get in hockey so if he was actually a good playmaker it would've shown by now. I would be shocked if he ever got 40+ assists in an NHL season.

If Podkolzin had played in the CHL you can bet he would have had higher junior numbers, but instead he played in the 2nd best league in the world that is the KHL. Kucherov didn't have good numbers in the KHL but now look at him. Not saying Podkolzin is Kucherov but there are plenty of examples of current stars not lighting it up in their junior years, only to become greats in the NHL.

 

[Gstank]

He was also playing 4th line minutes in the KHL, during the playoffs he was playing 2nd/3rd line minutes

 

[Zaddy]

If Podkolzin had played in the CHL you can bet he would have had higher junior numbers, but instead he played in the 2nd best league in the world that is the KHL. Kucherov didn't have good numbers in the KHL but now look at him. Not saying Podkolzin is Kucherov but there are plenty of examples of current stars not lighting it up in their junior years, only to become greats in the NHL.

Podkolzin played 12 games in MHL (russian juniors) in his draft year and had 2 assists, like I said in my post.

As an isolated stat it's not that meaningful but when you match that with what you can see on the ice you understand why he never gets a lot of assists and why his goal/assist ratio is so closely aligned. Podkolzin simply isn't very good at using his teammates.

These are his recorded stats from his entire career, showing that he has never in any extended sample size gotten a high amount of assists vs number of goals.

I also find it hilarious how people complain about coaches not using him correctly. You'd think if he was as offensively gifted as people say he is that he'd get spoonfed those minutes but alas. Maybe it's not a large conspiracy against Podkolzin but rather coaches see him more as a grinder than a big offensive talent.

 

[John Johnson]

Podkolzin played 12 games in MHL (russian juniors) in his draft year and had 2 assists, like I said in my post.

As an isolated stat it's not that meaningful but when you match that with what you can see on the ice you understand why he never gets a lot of assists and why his goal/assist ratio is so closely aligned. Podkolzin simply isn't very good at using his teammates.

These are his recorded stats from his entire career, showing that he has never in any extended sample size gotten a high amount of assists vs number of goals.

I also find it hilarious how people complain about coaches not using him correctly. You'd think if he was as offensively gifted as people say he is that he'd get spoonfed those minutes but alas. Maybe it's not a large conspiracy against Podkolzin but rather coaches see him more as a grinder than a big offensive talent.

I mean if your point is that he's never really been an assist guy, the chart you posted in almost every season he has more assists than goals. If your point is that he lacks offensive talent, thats fine, he's very raw. He probably will never light up the NHL, but all Canucks fans really want from him is maybe a ~50 point player with good defense and physicality in his prime.

 

[beachcomber]

Pods is the type of player every team needs in the playoffs. He's made really good on ice decisions to date and has passed the puck well in the Ozone but Vancouver has no finishers right now. He'll never be an Adam Oates but he will be a very solid top 6-9 winger. He's just getting started.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Podkolzin played 12 games in MHL (russian juniors) in his draft year and had 2 assists, like I said in my post.

The issue with your whole perspective is that nobody expected him to be some kind of elite playmaker. Nobody, no one at all. So you have to decide if you are trying to say he is not an elite playmaker (in which case nobody really argues with you) or that he is shoot-only-never-get-any-assists kinda guy (in which case you are wrong).

Most people always expected him to develop into a 25+35 power forward, that's pretty consistent with what he has been his whole career. You are acting like his first 19 games somehow prove he is not going to be that which they don't, at all. And yes, his shot was becoming way more of an issue and set much more doubt if he can become that kind of player. His ability to drive the net, play the cycle was never in question, that's where those assists are going to come from and there is no doubt he can do that and will only get better at it. He was never supposed to be some kind of visionary with the puck and I dare you to find a "Russian poster" stating that.

Could become a smaller version of Nichushkin

At this point, I'm really confused if this is a knock on Podkolzin or praise for Nichushkin.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

1 assist through 19 games.

Always said he was a really poor playmaker yet a lot of people pushed back hard against it.

His offensive game has always been very one-dimensional, relying on his shot and hustle and not on smarts and passing.

Funny part is I remember some Russian poster arguing that his playmaking was in fact his strength and that his shot was a weakness

tell me you have never seen Podzolkin play without saying you haven't seen Podzolkin play.

the canucks, as a whole, aren't scoring so not sure where those assists would be coming from

but hey! uneducated "i-told-you-so" even though they're still wrong posts are good for a laugh. come back anytime

 

[Zaddy]

I mean if your point is that he's never really been an assist guy, the chart you posted in almost every season he has more assists than goals. If your point is that he lacks offensive talent, thats fine, he's very raw. He probably will never light up the NHL, but all Canucks fans really want from him is maybe a ~50 point player with good defense and physicality in his prime.

99% of players will get more assists than goals simply due to how much easier it is to get assists (hello secondary assists), which should be pretty obvious and not something I should have to spell out. Yet even so Podkolzin is barely capable of that, which is kinda my whole point...

 

[SoundAndFury]

99% of players will get more assists than goals simply due to how much easier it is to get assists (hello secondary assists), which should be pretty obvious and not something I should have to spell out. Yet even so Podkolzin is barely capable of that, which is kinda my whole point...

So you are again backtracking to "he only has 5 points in his first 19 NHL games hence he is a bust offensively" which is something you wanted to "prove" all along but you don't quite know how to reach it so tried the "he won't get any assists" narrative. Good job, very creative.

 

[Zaddy]

The issue with your whole perspective is that nobody expected him to be some kind of elite playmaker. Nobody, no one at all. So you have to decide if you are trying to say he is not an elite playmaker (in which case nobody really argues with you) or that he is shoot-only-never-get-any-assists kinda guy (in which case you are wrong).

Most people always expected him to develop into a 25+35 power forward, that's pretty consistent with what he has been his whole career. You are acting like his first 19 games somehow prove he is not going to be that which they don't, at all. And yes, his shot was becoming way more of an issue and set much more doubt if he can become that kind of player. His ability to drive the net, play the cycle was never in question, that's where those assists are going to come from and there is no doubt he can do that and will only get better at it. He was never supposed to be some kind of visionary with the puck and I dare you to find a "Russian poster" stating that.

Elite =/= very good playmaker, which people indeed argued he was. Dunno why you dare me to come up with that poster since I literally had that argument a couple of years ago on these boards. Wasn't just that one guy either who argued Podkolzin was a legit playmaker and that it wasn't a weakness of his.

tell me you have never seen Podzolkin play without saying you haven't seen Podzolkin play.

the canucks, as a whole, aren't scoring so not sure where those assists would be coming from

but hey! uneducated "i-told-you-so" even though they're still wrong posts are good for a laugh. come back anytime

Yeah that's funny considering I commented a lot about Podkolzin's play in his draft year and posted actual clips that I recorded from his play to illustrate my point but nice try buddy.

 

[Zaddy]

So you are again backtracking to "he only has 5 points in his first 19 NHL games hence he is a bust offensively" which is something you wanted to "prove" all along but you don't quite know how to reach it so tried the "he won't get any assists" narrative. Good job, very creative.

No idea how you deduced that from my post. I'm talking about his entire career he's never been producing many assists, which lines up with what I see when I watch him play, he's simply not a good playmaker. I have the evidence on my side here and it's up to Podkolzin to prove me wrong (and you guys right) by actual producing a lot of assists at any point during his career, which has yet to happen.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Elite =/= very good playmaker, which people indeed argued he was. Dunno why you dare me to come up with that poster since I literally had that argument a couple of years ago on these boards. Wasn't just that one guy either who argued Podkolzin was a legit playmaker and that it wasn't a weakness of his.

Again, it isn't his weakness, it's consistent with his overall offensive ability and playstyle. You are throwing this "people said" straw man again and again yet once again, I challenge you to use the search function and find the posts suggesting he is "very good" playmaker in the sense you are trying to picture it.