RW Joshua Ho-Sang - Windsor Spitfires, OHL (2014, 28th overall, NY Islanders)

[Isles Junkie]

Thanks for the hindsight. What puzzles me is that I remember reading that after his round of interviews, many teams had him crossed out. The fact that people talk about "generational talent" but he only gets picked at the end of round 1 corroborates the theory that many teams thinks he will/could be too much trouble.

I seriously question this "Generational talent" stuff. No doubt the kid is a great prospect, maybe even an elite prospect from a talent POV. However, if we're going to lump him in with prospects like Crosby and Ovechkin, then no amount of attitude problems would prevent a team from drafting him #1. If Crosby was an attitude problem, would the Pens seriously not have taken him?

Unless I'm interpreting "generational talent" the wrong way.

 

[BruinLVGA]

I seriously question this "Generational talent" stuff. No doubt the kid is a great prospect, maybe even an elite prospect from a talent POV. However, if we're going to lump him in with prospects like Crosby and Ovechkin, then no amount of attitude problems would prevent a team from drafting him #1. If Crosby was an attitude problem, would the Pens seriously not have taken him?

Unless I'm interpreting "generational talent" the wrong way.

Yeah, that's why I quoted it. I am not buying into this myself.

 

[Macch]

[mod]

How's the Windsor team looking next season? Could anyone see him being traded?

 

[TeamKidd]

[mod]

Ho-Sang appears to me to be a brash kid with a big mouth and a ton of talent. He comes across as smart, cocky and driven. Given where he was taken and the prospect pool we have, it was a calculated risk that was well worth the cost. We can afford to have him fail and still be juuusssttt fine. Combine that with the school boy types we have in Tavares, Okposo, Nelson and Strome....I think they'll straighten him out, if he needs straightening.

I just think you all need to keep in mind that this is an 18 year old kid. If there were a microphone around recording everything i said and did when I was 18...****, i dont even wanna think about it. THis is the new reality...everything recorded at every time. I think some of us just need to get used to this new paradigm and get over that EVERYONE says stupid **** from time to time.

Of more concern to me is whether or not he can play well with others on the ice. The one critique that stood out to me is that he can be a one man band on the ice. I dont like that. To me, thats his biggest issue. If he figures that out, he's got all the talent, all the one on one skills you want to make the highlights every night.

He has to be the most intriguing prospect in the draft and i for one, am rooting for him.

 

[Dr Quincy]

I've been hard on the kid all spring, such as picking him most likely to bust, but none of my critiques are about his character or attitude, and in fact, I'm rooting for the kid because I like to see skill and flair in the league.

I just wonder if his type of game will translate in today's NHL.

 

[jacobhockey13]

Don't know why a team didn't try to pick up him and Deangelo. That would be volatile.

 

[Knave]

Did you even read the article? It was Potvin quotes from 1973.

As far as I can tell one was from 1973 and it was about how he enjoyed playing football and being a physical player.

The other quote was from Canada Cup where Bobby Orr's knee was falling apart before and during the tournament and there can be legitimate arguments made that the votes for Bobby Orr as player of the match, MVP were out of sympathy and "Oh he's injured and still this good".

My bet is still on Ho-Sang not making it. There's confidence, there's honesty and then there's arrogance. When you can't be #1 in points, you're an offensive forward and you're saying you are the #1 guy in the draft, the most talented... Stamkos, Tavares made themselves known through their play. So did PK Subban, Patrick Kane (comparables I read from an article or someone, not you) - Ho-Sang is a big NOPE in that department. All bark, no bite.

 

[Rehabguy]

Well, at least Ron Hextall knows what it takes to be an NHL player. That can't be denied and it's self explanatory. I also fail to understand how winning a Cup or not has any bearing on this: plenty of great players with oodles of knowledge/experience that have never won a Cup. Never mind also that I am sure folks, once they finish their player career, probably go thru extensive training for a management position and also most of the times they take positions that break them in for bigger roles ("Assistant"-xyz). So it might be a case where Hextall might actually indeed be an expert in character too. Who knows...

The 80s are long gone (sadly). Today every action, every phrase is readily available for scrutiny to everyone and professional players can't afford to just be wild, maybe even out of control characters.

A pro team, which essentially is a corporate business, won't allow one of its "employees" to have behavior(s) that are viewed as negative for business.
Look at Tyler Seguin, for example. Kid has oodles of talent, yet little things here and there just piled up and the management just decided they were done and he got traded. One of the first things Dallas did was order him to deactivate his Twitter account...

So to hint that Ho-sang could get away with tons because of his talent, I think it just isn't reality. He will need to fall in line in the mold of a pro hockey player. If he doesn't, he will not have a meaningful career. He wouldn't be the first at that either. I have a gut feeling that the kid has a lot more to grow up into a man, that should be a top priority.

And how many times do I have to say it has nothing to do about winning cups. I just found it kind of arrogant for a rookie GM to go after a 17 year old kid like he did publicly. By all accounts, he seems like a really good kid, no drugs, no dirty stuff, just a happy go lucky kid with oodles of talent.

I think the person showing a lack of character here is Hextall himself.

You simply don't make a public statement like that about a good kid, just a little overconfident.

Again, I brought up the Potvin, simply to state that having such an attitude does not make him a shoe-in for the "do not draft list".

Let's revisit this thread again in a few years and see who was right. It's simply too soon to sour on a 17 or 18 year old, especially someone who is showing this level of talent. Personally I think the kid is going to excel. He may not be "the next One", but he is surely NHL material in my view.

I'll forgive Hextall for this being his rookie year as a GM, but he needs to show some tact.

 

[Rehabguy]

I seriously question this "Generational talent" stuff. No doubt the kid is a great prospect, maybe even an elite prospect from a talent POV. However, if we're going to lump him in with prospects like Crosby and Ovechkin, then no amount of attitude problems would prevent a team from drafting him #1. If Crosby was an attitude problem, would the Pens seriously not have taken him?

Unless I'm interpreting "generational talent" the wrong way.

I question whether he is a generational talent as well, though some media outlets earlier on placed him as such.

I see his style as similar to Maxim Afinogenov with possibly a higher ceiling.

 

[Rehabguy]

As far as I can tell one was from 1973 and it was about how he enjoyed playing football and being a physical player.

The other quote was from Canada Cup where Bobby Orr's knee was falling apart before and during the tournament and there can be legitimate arguments made that the votes for Bobby Orr as player of the match, MVP were out of sympathy and "Oh he's injured and still this good".

My bet is still on Ho-Sang not making it. There's confidence, there's honesty and then there's arrogance. When you can't be #1 in points, you're an offensive forward and you're saying you are the #1 guy in the draft, the most talented... Stamkos, Tavares made themselves known through their play. So did PK Subban, Patrick Kane (comparables I read from an article or someone, not you) - Ho-Sang is a big NOPE in that department. All bark, no bite.

The quote from the article was made BEFORE he was even drafted- very similar cocky attitude like Ho-Sang. This is what he said:

"It's difficult sometimes psyching myself up for a game. I'm not boasting but, really, there's no real challenge anymore. I know I can do pretty well what I want to do out there. I know I skate faster than most of the forwards and I can go through whole teams pretty well when I want." - Denis Potvin

Based upon Hextall's reasoning, such an attitude would make someone such as Denis Potvin an automatic "Do not draft list". Thank god the architect of our dynasty Bill Torrey, didn't see it that way.

In fact most of the Islander greats, Bryan Trottier, Bill Smith, Bobby Nystrom had this type of cocky attitude. This is what made them great. This swagger is EXACTLY what the current Islander team is missing. I see a little of it in Strome, but completely lacking in Josh Bailey. You can't be good if you don't believe in yourself. Ho-Sang just needs to tone it down a bit.

 

[Jrtu]

How does Josh Ho-Sang compare to Kirill Kabanov? Both were regarded as highly skilled forwards, but both have character flaws. Interestingly enough, both were picked up by the NYI.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

How does Josh Ho-Sang compare to Kirill Kabanov? Both were regarded as highly skilled forwards, but both have character flaws. Interestingly enough, both were picked up by the NYI.

Kabanov was a good offensive player. He worked the halfboards and cycled well and had good vision feeding the slot. What got him hyped was that when you let him see space he could turn on the horses. His dad ****ed up his draft year and injuries plus inability to fully realize his athletic skills have stunted him. Hes still got some potential, he plays like PAP but more athletic. Flawed player but could fit on an offensive line and work in a pro-style offense.

Ho-Sang will try and deke through the entire opposing team cause he knows he can whether he sees space. He makes hisown space and will carve guys up in traffic and take the body to attack the net. His skillset is a cut above Kabanovs, and Kabby had a very sweet skillset. Ho-Sang's issues are that he does that in the D zone, he needs to save the razzle dazzle for the blueline in.

 

[Isles Junkie]

How does Josh Ho-Sang compare to Kirill Kabanov? Both were regarded as highly skilled forwards, but both have character flaws. Interestingly enough, both were picked up by the NYI.

There's a key difference though. Ho-Sang has produced big numbers in juniors. KK really didn't.

 

[boredmale]

There's a key difference though. Ho-Sang has produced big numbers in juniors. KK really didn't.

I don't think KK was as cocky as Ho Sang either. In the case of KK his attitude problems seemed to come from having an overbearing parent making alot of bad choices.

 

[Isles Junkie]

I don't think KK was as cocky as Ho Sang either. In the case of KK his attitude problems seemed to come from having an overbearing parent making alot of bad choices.

I know Ho-Sang had a tardiness issue in juniors, but I think that was just once. IIRC, KK had multiple attendance issues.

As far as cockiness, I think that eventhough KK speaks english very well, there was definitely a language barrier there that he hasn't completely overcome. I imagine that when learning the language, it's also difficult to teach a kid how to also be media savvy.

For the record, I liked both Kirill picks. It's unlikely either will ever be an Islander/NHLer, but it was a good risk in the 3rd round. Neither of those picks have hurt our prospect pool which is as deep as any in the NHL.

I don't follow the OHL nearly as much as I should, but a few minutes ago I watched the JHS hit that resulted in a 15 game suspension. It was a dangerous hit, but was 15 games warranted? Maybe that's just OHL rules, but it seemed excessive to me.



If it was excessive I wonder if it was related to the perception of him as a person.

 

[boredmale]

I don't follow the OHL nearly as much as I should, but a few minutes ago I watched the JHS hit that resulted in a 15 game suspension. It was a dangerous hit, but was 15 games warranted? Maybe that's just OHL rules, but it seemed excessive to me.

The suspension got cut down to 6 games

 

[Isles Junkie]

then it was excessive. good thing they cut it down.

 

[boredmale]

then it was excessive. good thing they cut it down.

The basic feeling was the OHL President loves the Knights(who were hosting the Mem Cup) and hates the Spitfires so he over reacted

 

[scott99]

Not a guy I would have traded up for. If you wanted him that bad I think you could have kept your original pick in Round 2.

Interesting you say that, but guess what, almost ALL of the draft guides had Ho-Sang rated 30 or earlier, so I don't think he would have been there at 35. ISS had him at 18, Mckeens had him at 22 I think, almost all of the guides had him going in the first round.

 

[Paxon]

I seriously question this "Generational talent" stuff. No doubt the kid is a great prospect, maybe even an elite prospect from a talent POV. However, if we're going to lump him in with prospects like Crosby and Ovechkin, then no amount of attitude problems would prevent a team from drafting him #1. If Crosby was an attitude problem, would the Pens seriously not have taken him?

Unless I'm interpreting "generational talent" the wrong way.

He's definitely not a generational talent. He's not any more talented than guys like Nylander or Ehlers, he's just right there with them in skill. Great skater and exceptional hands. If he smartens up his game like he showed signs of in the second half of the season and becomes a passable defensive player, then he can be a really good top 6 offensive winger. I can't see him ever being a superstar but I guess just going by some of the skills, it's theoretically possible.

The attitude stuff seems extremely overblown but it doesn't help him in people's eyes when they also see him routinely turning the puck over trying to skate coast-to-coast. Where the Isles picked him is perfect for them. They're the perfect team to have taken the chance from an organizational perspective, because they have a very deep system.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

then it was excessive. good thing they cut it down.

Even with it being cut down, it's still a joke. He shouldn't have been suspended at all..but London Knights, Windsor Spitfires, all that.

 

[NikF]

He's definitely not a generational talent. He's not any more talented than guys like Nylander or Ehlers, he's just right there with them in skill. Great skater and exceptional hands. If he smartens up his game like he showed signs of in the second half of the season and becomes a passable defensive player, then he can be a really good top 6 offensive winger. I can't see him ever being a superstar but I guess just going by some of the skills, it's theoretically possible.

The attitude stuff seems extremely overblown but it doesn't help him in people's eyes when they also see him routinely turning the puck over trying to skate coast-to-coast. Where the Isles picked him is perfect for them. They're the perfect team to have taken the chance from an organizational perspective, because they have a very deep system.

I would argue the Islanders are the complete opposite of a team that takes a shot at Ho-Sang. They're a young team that hasn't won anything in forever, better served flushing their ranks with team-first good solider types instead of individualists, especially with all the impressionable youth they have coming up, you can't afford me-first individualists disrupting the team structure at that stage. Ho-Sang is the type of guy a veteran winning team takes and tries to reign in because they already have a history of who's-who in the locker room and certain expectations with a winning tradition. Personally I would avoid him at all costs, that's my personal philosophy that isn't gospel, but I think a team that is just establishing its structure and identity really doesn't need heavy individualists at any level. Chasing "cutesy" Ho-Sang types is precisely what has you mired in mediocrity forever. If he turns out? Well great, you missed on him. A completely unnecessary risk, a team like the Islanders should be busy acquiring tough-to-play against fundamentally sound players who excel at operating within a team structure. Quenneville, Barbashev, Kempe... these guys are precisely the type the Islanders should add and build a critical mass of, instead of chasing home-run picks that when you consider where they are as an organization aren't really worth the reward.

 

[Isles Junkie]

I would argue the Islanders are the complete opposite of a team that takes a shot at Ho-Sang. They're a young team that hasn't won anything in forever, better served flushing their ranks with team-first good solider types instead of individualists, especially with all the impressionable youth they have coming up, you can't afford me-first individualists disrupting the team structure at that stage. Ho-Sang is the type of guy a veteran winning team takes and tries to reign in because they already have a history of who's-who in the locker room and certain expectations with a winning tradition. Personally I would avoid him at all costs, that's my personal philosophy that isn't gospel, but I think a team that is just establishing its structure and identity really doesn't need heavy individualists at any level.

But that's what the Isles have. All of their players & draftees are high character types. By the time this kid is ready the Isles will likely have had some success in the playoffs being led by Tavares, Okposo and Hamonic. If it's 1 thing the Isles have in spades, it's high character individuals in the organization. If Ho-Sang fails due to attitude problems, then it won't be because he isn't surrounded by enough guys who carry themselves the right way and play the game with respect.

 

[NikF]

But that's what the Isles have. All of their players & draftees are high character types. By the time this kid is ready the Isles will likely have had some success in the playoffs being led by Tavares, Okposo and Hamonic. If it's 1 thing the Isles have in spades, it's high character individuals in the organization. If Ho-Sang fails due to attitude problems, then it won't be because he isn't surrounded by enough guys who carry themselves the right way and play the game with respect.

Start picking them when you actually win something. I wouldn't touch Ho-Sang with a 10 ft pole or care to have him anywhere in my organization's system if I have a young impressionable team that is just coming together. I wouldn't want him on my AHL team playing with other prospects. I don't think there's any room for individualists of that kind (not that we're talking about Patrick Kane talent here) on a young team that still hasn't won anything. To me it's mind-blowing that a team passes on Kempe or Barbashev or Quenneville or what have you to select Ho-Sang, I mean you haven't won anything, you don't have a winning team that has guys locked into positions for the foreseeable future, you have some good young pieces and nice prospect depth, you don't add Ho-Sang at that stage and certainly not because you project to be a winning team or project prospects as sure things in the future, do it when you actually are there. If you have an established winning team with no spots ok I can understand that you take Ho-Sang and hope there is something there 3 years from now.

 

[Isles Junkie]

Start picking them when you actually win something. I wouldn't touch Ho-Sang with a 10 ft pole or care to have him anywhere in my organization's system if I have a young impressionable team that is just coming together. I wouldn't want him on my AHL team playing with other prospects. I don't think there's any room for individualists of that kind (not that we're talking about Patrick Kane talent here) on a young team that still hasn't won anything.

I admit I don't follow juniors except around the draft, and even then I only care about the isles picks.

But what has this kid done that is so outlandish? I know he was late to practice & subsequently benched. I know he made a few quotes which basically threw his linemates under the bus, and I know he said he felt he'd be the best player to come out of this draft, and made some comment about how he feels he should be able to speak his mind to a coach re. systems. But it isn't like he's getting into trouble with the law or has some pregnant girlfriend in Regina (i picked Regina because it rhymes with...)

I mean I get it, players should keep their mouths shut and do what the coach says, and throwing teamates under the bus sucks. but I don't think we should disparage a 17 year old child for the dumb **** he says. I'm sure you've said some pretty dumb stuff when you were a 17 year old also. I sure as hell know I did.

I'm going to take the wait & see approach with him. He can be taught how to play defense. he will learn pretty quickly (as most top junior players do) that the stuff they can do with the puck against other kids, simply does not work against AHL/NHL players. Unless there's some incidents that I just don't know about, then I don't see why we can't assume that by the time he makes it to the NHL in 3 years, that he won't have matured a significant amount just like most 17 year old kids do by the time they turn 20.