RW Jake Virtanen - Calgary Hitmen, WHL (2014, 6th, VAN) II

[Breakers]

Never seen a point a game 19 year old WHLer get so much unwarranted hype. Wow.

Says the guy who's a fan of a team with one of the worst prospect pools in the NHL.

Meaning your team doesn't have any prospects so you go around trashing everybody else's.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Sounds like you didnt watch actually. It sounds like you looked at the stats and thats it.



Can I borrow your crystal ball?

I watched. He was nothing special.

 

[bert]

Ugh if your some "big offensive player" your expected to produce, which he didnt. Great he threw a couple hits, 3rd liners are usually good at that.

How much did you expect them to score exactly? He had no pp time and was an 18 year old in a 19 year old tournament on an absolutely stacked team where he was given a role and it was as a bottom 6 player. There is also more to hockey than scoring goals and he did exactly what he was told to do. Sounds like a coachable player to me.

I watched. He was nothing special.

What were you expecting? Atleast he was a versatile enough player to make the team in more than one role. I watched a player that made room for his linemates with his speed, forchecking and tenacity. He was gaining the blue line and creating separation for his teammates. Believe it or not you need a mix or strength, speed and compete. Having a team full of players that are 5'10 - 6 feet that are 160 to 180 pounds is not a recipe for success or winning.

 

[NoShowWilly]

there is an ignore thread option, guys. maybe when the next one starts here before the end of the day, you can all go ahead and block it.

This is a pretty common thing regarding Canucks prospects. There is very little middle ground.

 

[Breakers]

I watched. He was nothing special.

Either was Gauthier.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Either was Gauthier.

So? What does Gauthier have to do with anything in a Virtanen thread

 

[bert]

So? What does Gauthier have to do with anything in a Virtanen thread

About as much as Nylander and Marner is what he is suggesting i am assuming.

Does it grind your gears that Virtanen made the team and Marner didnt? Or is it that if Nylander were Canadian he wouldnt have made it either over Virtanen because he didnt posses the skill set that Canada needed.

Or is it that you realize a team needs players like Virtanen to be successful?

 

[WetcoastOrca]

there is an ignore thread option, guys. maybe when the next one starts here before the end of the day, you can all go ahead and block it.

This is a pretty common thing regarding Canucks prospects. There is very little middle ground.

I don't think its' so much because he's a Canuck prospect. Virtanen had a disappointing year last year coming off a serious injury. There's no debating that.
This year will be important.
IMO, if he can turn into a second liner who scores 60 points and hits like a truck he will be as valuable to the Canucks as either Ehlers or Nylander. I think that those two prospects will put up more points but are getting overrated in terms of prospects in what was a fairly weak draft after the first three or four players. There's more to evaluating players than points.
Now, clearly if Virtanen doesn't take a big step this year it's a huge issue.

 

[canucksfan]

No, its more the fans that are trying to over hype him who are making people salty. Not Virtanen. He will be a nice 2nd/3rd liner int he league though.

Exactly. I don't envision him turning into a first line winger. He did not have a great developmental year last year.

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

I remember a lot of scouts comparing him to Andrew Ladd before he was drafted. I think that's his likely career path

At his peak, coming close to 30 goals and 60 points.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

About as much as Nylander and Marner is what he is suggesting i am assuming.

Does it grind your gears that Virtanen made the team and Marner didnt? Or is it that if Nylander were Canadian he wouldnt have made it either over Virtanen because he didnt posses the skill set that Canada needed.

Or is it that you realize a team needs players like Virtanen to be successful?

Why would anything about the prospects for the Leafs "grind my gears"?

As far as Marner goes, he was a 17 year old. It's very rare for players that age to make WJC, especially when there is as much talent available as Canada had. You will, no doubt, recall that Virtanen failed to make the team when he was 17 (despite the fact the talent pool was far weaker). I'm sure Marner will make it this year - and will perform substantially better than Virtanen (who will be 19 and at his second tournament).

 

[Breakers]

Why would anything about the prospects for the Leafs "grind my gears"?

As far as Marner goes, he was a 17 year old. It's very rare for players that age to make WJC, especially when there is as much talent available as Canada had. You will, no doubt, recall that Virtanen failed to make the team when he was 17 (despite the fact the talent pool was far weaker). I'm sure Marner will make it this year - and will perform substantially better than Virtanen (who will be 19 and at his second tournament).

Sam Reinhart had 4 points his first tournament
Jake Virtanen had 4 points his first tournament
Nick ritchie has 1 point his only tournament

It's a 19 year old tournament and he beat out guys like Dal Colle for a spot.

And if 17 is so rare than how come Crouse did it?

 

[WetcoastOrca]

If he can be a 2nd line 20 goal guy (Dustin Brown in his prime), I think everyone would be more than happy.

Agreed. I think there is a common misconception that all top 10 picks are future stars. A good number of the top ten picks in last years' draft will top out as second liners. Everyone overrates their prospects and think they're all sure fire stars. The one thing about Virtanen is that he brings other elements to his game that some of the flashier players lack.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Sam Reinhart had 4 points his first tournament
Jake Virtanen had 4 points his first tournament
Nick ritchie has 1 point his only tournament

It's a 19 year old tournament and he beat out guys like Dal Colle for a spot.

And if 17 is so rare than how come Crouse did it?

No one would describe the play of any of those guys at their first tournament as all that great. I don't understand why Virtanen fans are trying to overstate how he did at the tournament. His performance was nothing special, no matter how much you want to insist otherwise.

I'm still a bit surprised that Crouse made it, but he filled a need of HC's where there was a space available. He did fine - about the same as Virtanen, tbh. The fact that Crouse made it doesn't stop it from being rare - only one or two draft eligible players make it a year.

Being critical that Marner didn't make WJC as a 17 year old is just ridiculous. I guess Strome should also be criticized for this failure. It's amazing that any team would take them so high in the draft (and before Crouse) when they didn't crack Team Canada during their draft year.

 

[Black Noise]

Agreed. I think there is a common misconception that all top 10 picks are future stars. A good number of the top ten picks in last years' draft will top out as second liners. Everyone overrates their prospects and think they're all sure fire stars. The one thing about Virtanen is that he brings other elements to his game that some of the flashier players lack.

Looking at the drafts from 2000-2010 this is the amount of 1st line forwards/Top 2 defenceman/Star Goalies (in their prime).

2000 - 3
2001 - 4
2002 - 4
2003 - 7 (crazy ass draft)
2004 - 4
2005 - 3
2006 - 5
2007 - 5
2008 - 3
2009 - 5
2010 - 4

On average that is 4 players from the Top 10 become 1st line forwards/Top 2 defenceman/Star Goalies (in their prime).

People expecting every Top 10 pick to be a stud are wrong. Many, and the majority, either bust of become complimentary players.

 

[Superlative Soup]

I remember a lot of scouts comparing him to Andrew Ladd before he was drafted. I think that's his likely career path

At his peak, coming close to 30 goals and 60 points.

If he becomes that I will be very pleased.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Looking at the drafts from 2000-2010 this is the amount of 1st line forwards/Top 2 defenceman/Star Goalies (in their prime).

2000 - 3
2001 - 4
2002 - 4
2003 - 7 (crazy ass draft)
2004 - 4
2005 - 2
2006 - 5
2007 - 5
2008 - 3
2009 - 5
2010 - 4

On average that is 4 players from the Top 10 become 1st line forwards/Top 2 defenceman/Star Goalies (in their prime).

People expecting every Top 10 pick to be a stud are wrong. Many, and the majority, either bust of become complimentary players.

Great list! If you take out the top 3 picks you are probably looking at 1 or possibly 2 of picks 4-10 becoming a star.

 

[Black Noise]

Great list! If you take out the top 3 picks you are probably looking at 1 or possibly 2 of picks 4-10 becoming a star.

Ya the majority we Top 3 Picks.

Some drafts only players in the Top 5 became something (2008)

 

[Black Noise]

Ok so this is a list of players in the Top 10 that WEREN'T drafted Top 3 and became "star players" in their prime

2000 - 2
2001 - 1 (0 if you don't count Weiss a star in his prime)
2002 - 1
2003 - 4
2004 - 2
2005 - 1
2006 - 5 (weird draft)
2007 - 3
2008 - 1
2009 - 2
2010 - 2

Pretty rare. So odds are that out of Bennett, Dal Colle, Virtanen, Fluery, Nylander, Ehlers, Ricthie only 2 will be stars.

 

[beachcomber]

Ok so this is a list of players in the Top 10 that WEREN'T drafted Top 3 and became "star players" in their prime

2000 - 2
2001 - 1 (0 if you don't count Weiss a star in his prime)
2002 - 1
2003 - 4
2004 - 2
2005 - 1
2006 - 5 (weird draft)
2007 - 3
2008 - 1
2009 - 2
2010 - 2

Pretty rare. So odds are that out of Bennett, Dal Colle, Virtanen, Fluery, Nylander, Ehlers, Ricthie only 2 will be stars.

If that is the case then it is a toss up on which those two will be from that list.

 

[beachcomber]

Agreed. I think there is a common misconception that all top 10 picks are future stars. A good number of the top ten picks in last years' draft will top out as second liners. Everyone overrates their prospects and think they're all sure fire stars. The one thing about Virtanen is that he brings other elements to his game that some of the flashier players lack.

Exactly, Virtanen brings the physical edge required to compete in the Western Conference. Combining that edge with his improving physical skills he will an interesting player to watch in a few years.

 

[vanarchy]

Lol where you people keep coming up with this notion.

People don't hate him because he's a Canucks prospect, they laugh at him for being taken 6th overall and are getting sick of him because he's a decent prospect being shoved down everyone elses throats. Unwarranted shoving mind you, there are plenty of prospects in the 2014 draft that have shown greater progression than Virtanen and you don't see their threads being a staple on the prospects front page.

If you feel he's being shoved down your throat, why the hell are you in this thread at all?

I could understand this comment on a main board thread or something but you're literally in the Jake Virtanen thread in the prospect board. Are you lost?

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Ok so this is a list of players in the Top 10 that WEREN'T drafted Top 3 and became "star players" in their prime

2000 - 2
2001 - 1 (0 if you don't count Weiss a star in his prime)
2002 - 1
2003 - 4
2004 - 2
2005 - 1
2006 - 5 (weird draft)
2007 - 3
2008 - 1
2009 - 2
2010 - 2

Pretty rare. So odds are that out of Bennett, Dal Colle, Virtanen, Fluery, Nylander, Ehlers, Ricthie only 2 will be stars.

Thanks for that.
I think Bennett will for sure. So probably one of the other guys, if you play the odds.
In four of the eleven years there would be none.

 

[Rebuilt]

Lol where you people keep coming up with this notion.

People don't hate him because he's a Canucks prospect, they laugh at him for being taken 6th overall and are getting sick of him because he's a decent prospect being shoved down everyone elses throats. Unwarranted shoving mind you, there are plenty of prospects in the 2014 draft that have shown greater progression than Virtanen and you don't see their threads being a staple on the prospects front page.

In my opinion there are those who think they need to 'defend' the 6th overall selection to which there is no need.

He wasnt, nor will he ever be the 6th best player taken in that draft. However, my hope is that he turns into a Raffi Torres kind of 20-25 goal crash and bang guy whom everyone loves to hate.

Those kind of guys are rarer than we think.

 

[settinguptheplay]

If you feel he's being shoved down your throat, why the hell are you in this thread at all?

I could understand this comment on a main board thread or something but you're literally in the Jake Virtanen thread in the prospect board. Are you lost?

Come on lets be reasonable. The thread title say's Jake Virtanen. Don't you think it is a bit much to have to talk about him IN the thread as well? Overhype overload!