VAcaniac
SHOOT THE PUCK
It's exciting just that the organization might actually care about winning. I thought there was no way JR would ever be gone.
Chip Alexander: Rutherford expected to give up GM duties at end of the season
- Thread starter DaleCooper
- Start date
It's exciting just that the organization might actually care about winning. I thought there was no way JR would ever be gone.
What the Faulk
You'll know when you go
They're 4 games away from a complete change in legacy. The two you mentioned, then two during their playoff runs. Imagine if they didn't want that Game 7 against Buffalo? Imagine if they didn't win that Game 7 against New Jersey? They trailed in both of those 3rd periods, and very easily could have lost. You've got a swing of 2 more playoff years to a first round flameout and not even reaching the SCF in 2006.
I think Karmanos should be pretty absolved of blame these days. Yeah, he still runs a country club atmosphere and is too loyal to a lot of people, but he's stuck with this team despite being a financial sinkhole. Not only that, but he's raised payroll considerably over the years despite not really being affiliated with Compuware anymore. He's still worth a lot and surely has other ventures, but it's hard to see such red year and year and still (try) to push forward.
It's very much a chicken and the egg scenario between the AHL and scouting for me. Boychuk, Dalpe, and even Sutter have pretty much failed in other opportunities, so that's a strike against the scouting. But aside from Dwyer, Bowman, and Bellemore, those who have spent a lot of time in Charlotte haven't really been more than okay depth players, so that's a strike against Daniels. I think the fault lies with both.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
I'm pretty sure Beleskey is the only homegrown 3rd-7th round pick playing for Anaheim. Pittsburgh has Vitale and Bortuzzo. St. Louis has Reaves and Polak (who is actually a good player unlike these other guys).
It's not the ideal way to go, because everyone wants to be a Chicago or Detroit when it comes to drafting, but it's quite possible to build a good team without getting any help from low-round picks. It simply requires a level of acumen at managing the rest of the roster that we have not seen here.
Oogie Boogie
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garnetpalmetto
Jerkministrator
There's an old French proverb: "Jamais deux sans trois," or "Never two without three." Thus far we've seen two players of Francis' generation do subpar jobs as GM with one ultimately losing his job - Nieuwendyk and Yzerman. My fear is that Francis will join them in the ranks of "good player, subpar GM," especially if he's as blatantly disinterested in it as he was coaching.
On a more theoretical note and to spitball a bit, what if we turned the Country Club to our advantage with regards to cleaning things up in the 'A? Scott Walker as head coach of the Checkers anybody?
Joe McGrath
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2009
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And Andeson and Vantanen in Anaheim. Bonino wasn't their pick but a 6th rounder they developed.
DaleCooper
NEVER 4GET
Is Yzerman really doing that bad of a job? He's put together a team that is 3rd in the conference right now despite losing Stamkos for a huge chunk of the season and they are about to go to the playoffs for the second time in his four seasons in a market that is somewhat comparable to Raleigh.
Joe McGrath
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Yzerman is doing a fine job as far as I can tell. He robbed Ottawa blind for Bishop who could win the Vezina and got 2 first rounders and Callahan for a 37 year old guy whose role is getting replaced by a 19 y/o next year. He botched their goalie situation to begin last season which really screwed them but 2 playoffs in 3 seasons isn't exactly a failure in TB.
I think Yzerman is doing a great job. Tampa is on their way to the playoffs, and they have one of the brightest futures as far as prospects go.
Stickpucker
Playmaka
- Jan 18, 2014
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How much does a pro scout teally make that we cant afford more?
What would taking 300-400k from our internal cap towards scouting accomplish?
What would taking 300-400k from our internal cap towards scouting accomplish?
Vagrant
The Czech Condor
It's time. I don't think JR has been at the pulse of this team for the last several seasons. Just a lot of excuse making and shoulder shrugging about why it's not working when he supposedly has all the guys.
People bashing need to step off, because we're a team with a Stanley Cup because of Jim Rutherford. Hell, part of the reason we have a team at all is Jim Rutherford. He was once integral but now needs to move on. This should be looked at about the same as a player retirement. He put some good years in here, made some smart trades, and overall kept us relevant until his interest waned. Around the time he rejected the overtures from Toronto, he sort of packed it in here. I would imagine he didn't want that job because he knew his heart wasn't in this as much as it once was. It can be a pretty taxing job in a results oriented business.
People bashing need to step off, because we're a team with a Stanley Cup because of Jim Rutherford. Hell, part of the reason we have a team at all is Jim Rutherford. He was once integral but now needs to move on. This should be looked at about the same as a player retirement. He put some good years in here, made some smart trades, and overall kept us relevant until his interest waned. Around the time he rejected the overtures from Toronto, he sort of packed it in here. I would imagine he didn't want that job because he knew his heart wasn't in this as much as it once was. It can be a pretty taxing job in a results oriented business.
Ole Gil
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Given the lack of top 3 picks combined with being at a big disadvantage Salary wise, JR did pretty well. I sometimes think we're a bit spoiled in what we expected vs. reality.
Looking at comparable franchises, I'd say the team has done fairly well given only 1 top 3 pick. Tampa, Nashville, Columbus, Florida, Atlanta, Phoenix. Of those teams, the only other I'd consider trading places with would be the Lightning, who really have had a very similar path.
The difference being, their bad years, they had the sense to stink so bad, they got 2 #1 overall picks, and 5 top 3 picks.
--
In the end, it comes down to margin of error. There just isn't one for these franchises in most seasons, and it shows in the results.
I've always felt that he's put the team in a position where if things break their way, things could go very well. But they rarely have broken in that way. Whether it's roster obliteration from injuries, missing out by 2 points, or a lack of production from sources that reasonably should be expected to produce.
Trades and Signings, I've actually liked JR's maneuvering for the most part. Drafting will always be the question mark on his resume. Just the complete absence of organizational help outside the first round (and Justin Faulk) stings. That's a big source for the safety net for when you do catch a couple bad breaks, and the team has been playing without a net for as long as I can remember.
People talk about the development in the AHL, but it could just be that the guys aren't NHL material too. It may not be a matter of development, as much as the guys just don't end up having what is needed to make it.
Looking at comparable franchises, I'd say the team has done fairly well given only 1 top 3 pick. Tampa, Nashville, Columbus, Florida, Atlanta, Phoenix. Of those teams, the only other I'd consider trading places with would be the Lightning, who really have had a very similar path.
The difference being, their bad years, they had the sense to stink so bad, they got 2 #1 overall picks, and 5 top 3 picks.
--
In the end, it comes down to margin of error. There just isn't one for these franchises in most seasons, and it shows in the results.
I've always felt that he's put the team in a position where if things break their way, things could go very well. But they rarely have broken in that way. Whether it's roster obliteration from injuries, missing out by 2 points, or a lack of production from sources that reasonably should be expected to produce.
Trades and Signings, I've actually liked JR's maneuvering for the most part. Drafting will always be the question mark on his resume. Just the complete absence of organizational help outside the first round (and Justin Faulk) stings. That's a big source for the safety net for when you do catch a couple bad breaks, and the team has been playing without a net for as long as I can remember.
People talk about the development in the AHL, but it could just be that the guys aren't NHL material too. It may not be a matter of development, as much as the guys just don't end up having what is needed to make it.
Finlandia WOAT
js7.4x8fnmcf5070124
- May 23, 2010
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I think that, unlike the other teams that you listed Wally, the 'Canes actually have a good core of top end talent. Staal, Staal, Skinner, Semin, Faulk and (formerly) Ward. Columbus, Florida, Atlanta/Peg and Phoenix all lack high end impact players that compare with the 'Canes. Only the Lightning are close, and that has to do with Steven Stamkos and Victor Hedman, who were lotto picks.
We don't lack for top end talent, which is extremely impressive IMO. Our problem is depth, and a shrewd GM can easily fix that in a single offseason with 2 or 3 key signings. He already began working on that last season when he acquired Sekera and signed Gerbe, both of whom have been excellent.
We don't lack for top end talent, which is extremely impressive IMO. Our problem is depth, and a shrewd GM can easily fix that in a single offseason with 2 or 3 key signings. He already began working on that last season when he acquired Sekera and signed Gerbe, both of whom have been excellent.
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
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We can't afford them because we have so many former players taking up salary in made up positions. Director of Defense, Director of Forwards, Youth and Amateur coordinator, Vice President of Hockey Operations, Assistant Coach, etc...
If we make the playoffs this season does JR keeps his job? Let's face it guy, it's not over until the fat lady sings and you don't score until you score....
Ole Gil
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Like I said, it's margin of error. Now, we have some top end talent, but then 2 goalies get hurt. We pick up some good depth, and then Tlusty/Staal/Semin all limp into the season with injuries and don't produce.
Williams/Ladd/Ruutu/Skinner/Cole/Pitkanen/Brindy have wreaked havoc on the depth chart with frequent injuries over the years. Williams/Ladd/Cole's good durability since leaving makes that sting even more.
There are mistakes and shortcomings. But I don't know if those are worse than the craptastic luck we've seen at the same time. Losing two goalies concurrently twice in two years is absurd, right?
Yzerman has done a subpar job as GM? What on earth...
Have you been paying any attention to Tampa Bay?
Novacane
Registered User
It's probably going to be much of the same but it's time for a new face. It's sucks to see JR go after so long but it had to happen. Hopefully Ronnie is up to the task (I expect he is otherwise they wouldn't force him in).
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BrindAmours Army
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That would get 2-3 more scouts based on salary, but the real money gets thrown around when accounting for all the travel.
hey now. I got ridiculed and scrutinized for calling it a season 65% of the way in. But serious question. If the Canes make the playoffs, does JR keep his job or has the ship sailed?
Ole Gil
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The 2nd and 3rd leading scorers are a 7th round pick, and another undrafted munchkin. We could use some of that. Perhaps we'll get it one day with Tolchinsky?
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
Hopefully a miracle playoff berth wouldn't change the strategic direction of the franchise.
AD Skinner
Registered User
That decision is Rutherford's. No one is firing him, he is stepping down of his own accord. If they do make the playoffs and he decides to stick around, that's his call.
Mr Whipple
Charmin Soft
But it was sprayed with that new car smell!
I'm glad to see this move made. Nothing personal against JR. Just want to see a new direction and management of the team. I'm not jumping up and down excited, though, because I'm in a wait and see as to how Francis will manage things.
As for the scouts/hiring former players, I've wondered for a long time why the heck we aren't hiring the former players to be our scouts instead of throwing some random title at them. That's usually how players start to get involved in coaching/management.
