GDT: Russia vs. Slovakia - 02/16/06 - 8:00pm Torino - 2:00pm ET

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artilector

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Den said:
So, after all, what are you going with "solid" or "not perfect"?

Clearly it's defense's loss as well, but the last two goals - Bryza's fault

OK, this debate is stuck on semantics - I don't see how these two are mutually exclusive :) Lets just say we have difference of opinion on Bryza's contribution to the loss, and leave it at that. Nabokov now gets the chance to prove he can be perfect - so lets hope he does.

Sweden will be no picnic tomorrow.. at least no Gaborik, but a lot of cycling pressure - judging by today, that will mean a lot of hooking penalties on Russia... Our forwards have got to play tighter in the neutral zone, not let the Swedes enter our zone cleanly - otherwise they'll cycle us to death.
 

GKJ

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Ovechkin_mvp said:
I am also dissapointed with Bryz.

Now what happens if Russia looses again.
Are we out then??????? :eek:


if you lose to Latvia...probably
 

artilector

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Proffessor G DIDDY said:
Everyone is blaming Bryzgalov for some reason. But look back at the game 36 shots given away along with 8 power plays and numerous breaks.

Russia needed a better defensive forwards, Kharitonov and Viktor Kozlov are pretty much deadweight. Kharitonov doesn't have the size and Kozlov doesn't have the speed. Why players like Brylin and S. Kozlov weren't taken I don't know.

Secondly the Russian defense was always rushing up in attack. The Slovaks were smarter, their defenders just absorbed the attacks, minimised shots and then counter attacked. Russia should have followed suit and although it might have been dull game, I believe the Slovak defense would have cracked first.

Its going to be a difficult 2nd match for Russia against Sweden. Who are lot better in defense, their forwards also have a good mix of speed, skill and size. If Nabokov is in goal then Russia can match them defensively and they do have more speed up front.

So they should take page or 80 out of Slovakia's game plans and just defend eagerly and look to scorch Sweden on odd-man rushes, counterattacks and powerplays.

I thought Kharitonov was OK while he was with Yashin and Su. Kozlov did not show much, but he did not do anything terrible either, and made that nice pass to Su at the end that should have been a goal. I agree that Brylin would have been more useful than either of them, but I've watched S.Kozlov in Atlanta this year, and trust me, he's a non-factor. Kharitonov level, at most... he's just a name at this point.

In general, forwards not getting back and d-men pinching, to me its part of overall team tactics. The coach has got to manage this, players on the ice just react, they will react better if they have clear roles. They've been out of the old Russian system long enough that its not automatic for them, and Krikunov has to establish some system. Right now either there is no system, or the players are not following it... and I think its more of the former, actually - maybe he's waiting to get more familiar with his team, I don't know.

The problem is, this Russian team is not best at the "dull game".. I think small but concrete adjustments are needed - e.g. to put responsiblity on the centers to come back at all costs, let the wings do whatever they want on offense.

Krikunov has to make the adjustments, the older guys have to stick to it on the ice, then it will fall into place..
 

artilector

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Ovechkin_mvp said:
:clap: :clap: :clap:

Dave King for head coach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bow:

We gotta get rid of those old-timers.
Otherwise Russia won't get a gold medal for a few more decades

Lets not throw off old idols just to erect new ones! I agree that a coach who has played/coached in the NHL would be better, but this team is still good enough to win with Krikunov & Co.
 

artilector

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I just read the post-game interview with Krikunov... at least he's not panicking and blaming players/refs... but there's a very strong sense from his words that he simply expects players to be smarter, and that his job is basically to just put together lines...

That's not good enough.. I think there is no system at this point..
 

Proffessor G DIDDY

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artilector said:
OK, this debate is stuck on semantics - I don't see how these two are mutually exclusive :) Lets just say we have difference of opinion on Bryza's contribution to the loss, and leave it at that. Nabokov now gets the chance to prove he can be perfect - so lets hope he does.

Sweden will be no picnic tomorrow.. at least no Gaborik, but a lot of cycling pressure - judging by today, that will mean a lot of hooking penalties on Russia... Our forwards have got to play tighter in the neutral zone, not let the Swedes enter our zone cleanly - otherwise they'll cycle us to death.

I don't mean to be negative but if Russia play the way they did today they will really get a massive hammering.

If Russia are to win they have to be lot smarter, their defenders have to collapse down in front of the goal and minimise shots while the forwards have to sure up the point. I don't think there's any point in trying to contest along the boards. Guard the shooting and passing lanes and look to counterattack.
 

Den

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Proffessor G DIDDY said:
Everyone is blaming Bryzgalov for some reason. But look back at the game 36 shots given away along with 8 power plays and numerous breaks.

Russia needed a better defensive forwards, Kharitonov and Viktor Kozlov are pretty much deadweight. Kharitonov doesn't have the size and Kozlov doesn't have the speed. Why players like Brylin and S. Kozlov weren't taken I don't know.

Secondly the Russian defense was always rushing up in attack. The Slovaks were smarter, their defenders just absorbed the attacks, minimised shots and then counter attacked. Russia should have followed suit and although it might have been dull game, I believe the Slovak defense would have cracked first.

Its going to be a difficult 2nd match for Russia against Sweden. Who are lot better in defense, their forwards also have a good mix of speed, skill and size. If Nabokov is in goal then Russia can match them defensively and they do have more speed up front.

So they should take page or 80 out of Slovakia's game plans and just defend eagerly and look to scorch Sweden on odd-man rushes, counterattacks and powerplays.

The guy let 5 goals on 36 shots. 3 of those he saw clearly - that's a lot! Defensive forwards ddin't mess up actually - defense did
 

Ovechkin_mvp

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artilector said:
I just read the post-game interview with Krikunov... at least he's not panicking and blaming players/refs... but there's a very strong sense from his words that he simply expects players to be smarter, and that his job is basically to just put together lines...

That's not good enough.. I think there is no system at this point..


There ain't gonna be any system, period.

We have got a group of very talented players, but No team.

Plus going into the games, saying "Bronze is fine" is not how you motivate your players.
 

Ovechkin_mvp

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We really shouldn't blame the players at this point, all of these guys wanted to be here. A lot of young, superior talent.

I am very concerned about our coaching. Coaching has always been horrible for Team Russia in the past decade and a half.

We just don't learn from our mistakes, and throw those teams out without proper support or motivation.

For God's sake, if any Canadian coach said bronze/silver is satisfactory he would be crusified.

How are we planning to succeed at these tournaments with such poor attitude.

I am very very concerned about our present and future.
 

Den

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Ovechkin_mvp said:
We really shouldn't blame the players at this point, all of these guys wanted to be here. A lot of young, superior talent.

I am very concerned about our coaching. Coaching has always been horrible for Team Russia in the past decade and a half.

We just don't learn from our mistakes, and throw those teams out without proper support or motivation.

For God's sake, if any Canadian coach said bronze/silver is satisfactory he would be crusified.

How are we planning to succeed at these tournaments with such poor attitude.

I am very very concerned about our present and future.


You are whining
 

Ovechkin_mvp

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Den said:
You are whining

Nope, I wish Russian Hockey Federation goes for a major re-structure, and it has nothing to do with today's game.

anyways, let's see if Mr. "Bronze medal is satisfactory" smartens up and proves me wrong
 

Proffessor G DIDDY

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I know that Bryzgalov gave up 2 or 3 soft goals, but lets face it even the best goal tenders give up easy goal fairly regularly, its just a part of th game. The defense was bad they jumped in attack but were not successful at all which gave some good scoring opportunities to Slovaks. Bryzgalov made 30 saves, plenty of them of odd man breaks and on the powerplay, those saves wear you down and thats when goals start to leak.

Players like Kharitonov and Kozlov did nothing defensively and thats just unacceptable especially for two guys who were apparently selecte for their defensive skills. The whole team to has to be better defensively, the forwards have get back, the defense has to be smarter and actually look to defend and the goalies got try aviod letting in soft goals.

And I kind of agree with Krikunov's sentinments, Canada, Sweden, Czech Rep. and Slovakia are very good sides and which in my opinion have a lot better selection of players so a medal is good performance.

But really Krikunov shot himself in the foot with the selections of Kharitonov, Zhukov, Kozlov and Korolyuk, thats 20% of your skaters who are bad selections. When you include players who aren't going to perform at their best its going to be difficult for other players to carry that large a burden.
 

Den

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Proffessor G DIDDY said:
I know that Bryzgalov gave up 2 or 3 soft goals, but lets face it even the best goal tenders give up easy goal fairly regularly

If "the best goaltender" gives up 3 softies he looses that game usually.
 

Den

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Proffessor G DIDDY said:
I
But really Krikunov shot himself in the foot with the selections of Kharitonov, Zhukov, Kozlov and Korolyuk, thats 20% of your skaters who are bad selections. When you include players who aren't going to perform at their best its going to be difficult for other players to carry that large a burden.

Nothin bad about these selections. And Kharitonov played fine today, I don't get it - blame Gonchar/Bryza/Vishnevsky - here's your culprits, what's up with RSL hatred?
 

Proffessor G DIDDY

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I'm not saying that Bryzgalov is the best goal tenders, but I'm saying goal tenders like Hasek, Brodeur, Roy etc give up soft goals when they are under such heavy pressure.

And when you give up 36 shots, 7 powerplays and numerous odd man rushes 30 or saves is a pretty decent performance but its never going to enough to win with that shocking defensive display.
 

Den

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Proffessor G DIDDY said:
I'm not saying that Bryzgalov is the best goal tenders, but I'm saying goal tenders like Hasek, Brodeur, Roy etc give up soft goals when they are under such heavy pressure.

And when you give up 36 shots, 7 powerplays and numerous odd man rushes 30 or saves is a pretty decent performance but its never going to enough to win with that shocking defensive display.

And I am saying that when good keepers like Hasek, Brodeur or Roy let in 3 softies they usually loose that game and ppl blame them
 

shawn_kemp*

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Ovechkin_mvp said:
We really shouldn't blame the players at this point, all of these guys wanted to be here. A lot of young, superior talent.

I am very concerned about our coaching. Coaching has always been horrible for Team Russia in the past decade and a half.

We just don't learn from our mistakes, and throw those teams out without proper support or motivation.

For God's sake, if any Canadian coach said bronze/silver is satisfactory he would be crusified.

How are we planning to succeed at these tournaments with such poor attitude.

I am very very concerned about our present and future.

what are you gonna say if let's say tomorrow Russia beats Sweden 20-0?

that Russia's coaching is the best ever?

I repeat : it's only 1 game, no team has really shown a great team effort today. they need a couple more games to adjust their game.
 

Proffessor G DIDDY

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Den said:
And I am saying that when good keepers like Hasek, Brodeur or Roy let in 3 softies they usually loose that game and ppl blame them

That does happen a lot but really it shouldn't not be happening when your defense is not only giving 35 or more shots, but its pretty much now where to be seen.
 

Ovechkin_mvp

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shawn_kemp said:
what are you gonna say if let's say tomorrow Russia beats Sweden 20-0?

that Russia's coaching is the best ever?

I repeat : it's only 1 game, no team has really shown a great team effort today. they need a couple more games to adjust their game.


I do not want a coach who can't even motivate his team to aim for a gold medal.
I do not want a coach who would settle for a bronze medal.
I do not want a coach, who does not know s...t about NHL and our opponents.

Trust me, if not for Pavel, we wouldn't get half as many good players as we did.

For God's sake, Sokolov is his favourite goalie. (the guy who's admitedly scared to play vs North Americans)

Long before the games, Krikunov has admited that he doesn't even know some of the players on his team :banghead: :banghead:
He just saw them on TV or something.......

HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
 
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