Rumor: Rumours & Proposals | Expansion Trade Freeze zzzzz Edition

[Soundwave]

It most certainly is personal otherwise you would make much more of an effort to be accurate in what you post.
You have posted a lot of nonsense in this thread and some of this nonsense has gone unchallenged.
So please do support the false narrative you are spinning in this post.
Show your work.

It's not personal. I'd love for him to do well here. He's been given many, many chances, would you not agree? I just don't have the "give a crap" left to work myself into a "this is the year where he bounces back!" frenzy. So sue me. I think he is what he is here and I think his real trade value is what the Edmonton media types are saying -- a lesser young player with RFA years left at a lower cost.

I'd love for Schultz to have done well here too. I don't hold any grudge against him, you can go see the Schultz thread on the main board, I congratulated him for winning the Cup and am happy for him.

I'd like to see Yakupov do well. None of these guys are bad people. They just made a damn mess of it in an Oilers jersey and crippled our ability to get anything for them, and part of that is our fault because we were so enamoured in the idea of them "bouncing back" that we probably missed our window to trade them for real value ages ago.

The reality is other GMs don't give one fart about our feelings and the marketplace is the marketplace. And the marketplace is not hot for the type of player Eberle is, we have seen better wingers return less than what people are asking for Eberle here and we have the local media trying to prime the fan base for a return of "a lesser, younger player at a lower cap hit".

The whole Gagner-to-Yakupov (and everything in between) era minus maybe Klefbom has just been such a damn failure. Everything that could go wrong with that group has gone wrong.

 

[McVirginOil]

Pittsburgh's dcorps is atrocious and is only covered by having 2 top 5 players in the league and a top 10 goaltender.

 

[shoop]

We certainly weren't losing because of Hall-Nuge-Eberle. We were losing because of physicality and defence. That's actually why I think we won the Hall-Larsson trade. So you just contradicted yourself lol.

So you don't think Hall/Nuge/Eberle played a role in the Oilers losing?

Should a team's three highest paid players be held responsible for anything ever?

Please provide evidence on when I ever said that, because you're putting words in my mouth that I never said.

? = somebody asking a question.

Do you think the Oilers won the Larsson/Hall trade?

Used that ? again. That means I am asking a question...

 

[Aceboogie]

So you don't think Hall/Nuge/Eberle played a role in the Oilers losing?

Should a team's three highest paid players be held responsible for anything ever?



? = somebody asking a question.

Do you think the Oilers won the Larsson/Hall trade?

Used that ? again. That means I am asking a question...

LMAO. They score 34 goals, or ppg and tram finishes last and still somehow their fault

 

[bobbythebrain]

What's with the urge to defend Hall, Nuge and Eberle? The D was crap and the team's $6M core weren't every good either.

It's not all Hall/Nuge/Eberle's fault, but they aren't blameless either.

Lemme guess you still think the Oilers lost the Hall/Larsson trade?

Cause and effect. Simple answer.

Can you explain why Colorado stars this year all were bums?

Why Radim Vrbata was PHX best goal scorer at 50?

Why there wasn't a superstar in TO last year? Nobody with more than 45 points?

The Oilers tanked. Hall admitted it

Getting 60/70/80 point seasons out of these guys in the process was a freakin miracle

 

[OilTastic]

Pittsburgh's dcorps is atrocious and is only covered by having 2 top 5 players in the league and a top 10 goaltender.

^sorry not buying that argument ! you don't win 2 cups in a row if your defence is "atrocious"! and they won the cup this year without any playoff contributions from their top d-man Kris Letang ! rejoice Oiler fans that we may be able to win a cup without a so called #1 d-man.

 

[McAsuno]

So you don't think Hall/Nuge/Eberle played a role in the Oilers losing?

Should a team's three highest paid players be held responsible for anything ever?



? = somebody asking a question.

Do you think the Oilers won the Larsson/Hall trade?

Used that ? again. That means I am asking a question...

Its a pretty pointless question, considering I never even mentioned the trade or Larsson, did I?
But I'll answer it for you, since I'm being nice

I hated the deal at first, because I didn't know anything about Larsson. I was calling for Chiarelli's head on twitter. But after the way Larsson has been for our team, I love the deal. He's a great d man, and I'm very happy to have him on our team. Seeing him crush Gaudreau a couple of times always made me chuckle considering flame fans always bragged on how Gaudreau can't get hit, because he's too elusive. As for Hall? I think the devils got their top offensive producer, but at the same time, he's always going to be my favorite Oiler before McDavid. Overall, the deal works for both teams, and I ain't complaining. Hell, I'm gonna get myself a Larsson jersey next.

 

[Soundwave]

Its a pretty pointless question, considering I never even mentioned the trade or Larsson, did I?
But I'll answer it for you, since I'm being nice

I hated the deal at first, because I didn't know anything about Larsson. I was calling for Chiarelli's head on twitter. But after the way Larsson has been for our team, I love the deal. He's a great d man, and I'm very happy to have him on our team. Seeing him crush Gaudreau a couple of times always made me chuckle considering flame fans always bragged on how Gaudreau can't get hit, because he's too elusive. As for Hall? I think the devils got their top offensive producer, but at the same time, he's always going to be my favorite Oiler before McDavid. Overall, the deal works for both teams, and I ain't complaining. Hell, I'm gonna get myself a Larsson jersey next.

I'd probably hold off on that Larsson jersey. When ever Fayne is gone, Larsson is probably going to change back to no.5.

 

[Aceboogie]

Can't wait till Draisaitl regresses to a normal shooting percentage and Soundwave leading the charge to have him traded for Bennett.

True. Oiler fans don't understand shooting % for some reason

Didn't understand it when Eberle was shooting 18% and people were saying to expect regression. Dont understand extremely low shooting %

I dunno, is it a hard concept or something? You can map people's attitude to players and compare it to shooting % over time and the ebs and flows would match directly. It's a direct correlation

 

[McAsuno]

I'd probably hold off on that Larsson jersey. When ever Fayne is gone, Larsson is probably going to change back to no.5.

Of course, that's why I bought a Lucic jersey first
The new upcoming jersey better be nice as well.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Pittsburgh's dcorps is atrocious and is only covered by having 2 top 5 players in the league and a top 10 goaltender.

Wrong. They have Letang who played half a season and Daley and Cole

They also have the sickest 3 lines in the NHL. Sheary and Guentzel were over a point a game players in the AHL. Think if EDM inserted JP and Cags this year as proven AHL players scoring at a crazy pace? Prolly a cup

Maroon-McD JP(50 points)
Looch-Drai-Ebs
Cags(40points)-RNH-Kass

That forward group covered alot of holes

Justin Schultz also emerged into a LEGIT top 4 dman as far as defense, but his offense was off the charts

 

[McVirginOil]

^sorry not buying that argument ! you don't win 2 cups in a row if your defence is "atrocious"! and they won the cup this year without any playoff contributions from their top d-man Kris Letang ! rejoice Oiler fans that we may be able to win a cup without a so called #1 d-man.

I was moreso talking about their dcorps without Letang like this year, and atrocious as in very bad compared to other teams that make the SCF.

In the league, their d is below average without Letang, average with him

 

[Soundwave]

Cause and effect. Simple answer.

Can you explain why Colorado stars this year all were bums?

Why Radim Vrbata was PHX best goal scorer at 50?

Why there wasn't a superstar in TO last year? Nobody with more than 45 points?

The Oilers tanked. Hall admitted it

Getting 60/70/80 point seasons out of these guys in the process was a freakin miracle

Hall is the only one of all the players we had that was an 80 point player. And that was for 2/7 years here.

Eberle/RNH/Yakupov/Gagner/Paajarvi etc. are all 60 point guys really, and that would be a good year for them (great/miraculously in some cases).

Hall/Schultz/Eberle/RNH formed an AHL All-Star team that lock out year and tore the league up with silly point totals and guess what .... they *still* could not produce a winning record in the AHL

In hindsight that should've scared the crap out of us.

That's almost why I actually love Mac T. He saved this franchise, like Jack saved Rose on Titanic, lol. Without him if we don't have the Draisaitl and McDavid picks we are wandering the wilderness possibly for another 10-15-20 years who knows.

 

[oilers4life5]

Really hope Chia trades something so we keep Griffin and jujar

 

[McAsuno]

Hall is the only one of all the players we had that was an 80 point player. And that was for 2/7 years here.

Eberle/RNH/Yakupov/Gagner/Paajarvi etc. are all 60 point guys really, and that would be a good year for them (great/miraculously in some cases).

Hall/Schultz/Eberle/RNH formed an AHL All-Star team that lock out year and tore the league up with silly point totals and guess what .... they *still* could not produce a winning record in the AHL

In hindsight that should've scared the crap out of us.

In total fairness, I think a lot of the fanbase were fooled by the media that drove the 'Future Blackhawks/Penguins rebuild' success. Every damn year, I had to hear Stauffer pump the 'patience' comment.

 

[Aceboogie]

Hainsey and Daley are Petry level D and Cole is still better than 90% of garbage we had in past. Ditto for sure Schultz and Dumoulin. Just because people aren't familiar with them doesn't mean they are bad. Good underlying numbers

Hell we could really use Hainsey

 

[Paralyzer008]

^sorry not buying that argument ! you don't win 2 cups in a row if your defence is "atrocious"! and they won the cup this year without any playoff contributions from their top d-man Kris Letang ! rejoice Oiler fans that we may be able to win a cup without a so called #1 d-man.

I just said the Pens D was underrated, but I do believe they're a bit of an outlier for not needing a top D.

Crosby and Malkin are future hall-of-famers, Kessel + Guentzel produced at elite levels, and then basically every other forward on the team outside of Rowney, Hagelin and Kuhnhackl produced more than 5 points (and Hagelin scored in game 6).

11 forwards scored more than 5 points. Most teams don't have this type of depth.

The Oilers, in order to win a cup without a No.1 D, would need this type of offensive contribution AND a solid and mobile enough D corps to at least help Talbot a bit. Schultz was still a major offensive factor during the season and in the playoffs, the Oilers don't have that quite yet (Klefbom is possibly getting there, I mean game 5 says hello).

That's why it'd be crucial in my game plan this summer to get an insurance point producing D that can help Klefbom with some of the offensive contribution. If we can't get that, I think we're banking on Klefbom becoming a full fledged No.1 D with 25 minutes a game to really be the type of contender that's won the cup most of the time.

CAR, ANA, DET, PIT, CHI, BOS, LA, CHI, LA, CHI, PIT, PIT are the last 12 cup winners. Only 3 of them didn't have a No.1 D, 2 of them were Jim Rutherford teams and 2 of them were the Penguins with 2 hall-of-famers on it.

But hey, we do have McDavid

 

[Soundwave]

In total fairness, I think a lot of the fanbase were fooled by the media that drove the 'Future Blackhawks/Penguins rebuild' success. Every damn year, I had to hear Stauffer pump the 'patience' comment.

Yeah the thing is you can really freaking feel the difference when you have an actual, real franchise player (McDavid) and guys who are like 2-3 tiers down (Hall, Eberle, RNH).

The difference is night and day.

I've come to learn that "scorched earth" rebuild stuff is hard if you don't get a Crosby or Patrick Kane at least you are ****ed. That's where Colorado is at right now. We got bailed out of that by Golden Ticket.

 

[McVirginOil]

Hainsey and Daley are Petry level D and Cole is still better than 90% of garbage we had in past. Ditto for sure Schultz and Dumoulin. Just because people aren't familiar with them doesn't mean they are bad. Good underlying numbers

Hell we could really use Hainsey

...not sure if you actually looked at their underlying numbers or not but Daley and Hainsey are a far cry from Petry and not getting any better at their ages. Cole is okay at best. Schultz gets very generous zone time and sheltering (which he excels under) and Dumolin is still a wild card for me. Pittsburgh's D sans Letang is very bad if we're talking Stanley cup contender standards.

 

[McAsuno]

I just said the Pens D was underrated, but I do believe they're a bit of an outlier for not needing a top D.

Crosby and Malkin are future hall-of-famers, Kessel + Guentzel produced at elite levels, and then basically every other forward on the team outside of Rowney, Hagelin and Kuhnhackl produced more than 5 points (and Hagelin scored in game 6).

11 forwards scored more than 5 points. Most teams don't have this type of depth.

The Oilers, in order to win a cup without a No.1 D, would need this type of offensive contribution AND a solid and mobile enough D corps to at least help Talbot a bit. Schultz was still a major offensive factor during the season and in the playoffs, the Oilers don't have that quite yet (Klefbom is possibly getting there, I mean game 5 says hello).

That's why it'd be crucial in my game plan this summer to get an insurance point producing D that can help Klefbom with some of the offensive contribution. If we can't get that, I think we're banking on Klefbom becoming a full fledged No.1 D with 25 minutes a game to really be the type of contender that's won the cup most of the time.

CAR, ANA, DET, PIT, CHI, BOS, LA, CHI, LA, CHI, PIT, PIT are the last 12 cup winners. Only 3 of them didn't have a No.1 D, 2 of them were Jim Rutherford teams and 2 of them were the Penguins with 2 hall-of-famers on it.

But hey, we do have McDavid

A veteran that can put up the points, has scored in clutch playoff games, has won cups, and know what it takes to win aka Justin Williams whom I would love to have on this team. He'll be a great fit, so I hope the Oilers target him and that he's interested in coming here as well.

 

[guymez]

It's not personal. I'd love for him to do well here. He's been given many, many chances, would you not agree? I just don't have the "give a crap" left to work myself into a "this is the year where he bounces back!" frenzy. So sue me. I think he is what he is here and I think his real trade value is what the Edmonton media types are saying -- a lesser young player with RFA years left at a lower cost.

I'd love for Schultz to have done well here too. I don't hold any grudge against him, you can go see the Schultz thread on the main board, I congratulated him for winning the Cup and am happy for him.

I'd like to see Yakupov do well. None of these guys are bad people. They just made a damn mess of it in an Oilers jersey and crippled our ability to get anything for them, and part of that is our fault because we were so enamoured in the idea of them "bouncing back" that we probably missed our window to trade them for real value ages ago.

The reality is other GMs don't give one fart about our feelings and the marketplace is the marketplace. And the marketplace is not hot for the type of player Eberle is, we have seen better wingers return less than what people are asking for Eberle here and we have the local media trying to prime the fan base for a return of "a lesser, younger player at a lower cap hit".

The whole Gagner-to-Yakupov (and everything in between) era minus maybe Klefbom has just been such a damn failure. Everything that could go wrong with that group has gone wrong.

This doesnt address what I was asking about. You made a claim that Eberle has regressed for 4 years. I am challenging you to support that claim.

 

[McAsuno]

Yeah the thing is you can really freaking feel the difference when you have an actual, real franchise player (McDavid) and guys who are like 2-3 tiers down (Hall, Eberle, RNH).

The difference is night and day.

I've come to learn that "scorched earth" rebuild stuff is hard if you don't get a Crosby or Patrick Kane at least you are ****ed. That's where Colorado is at right now. We got bailed out of that by Golden Ticket.

In Eberle's case, he wasn't drafted first, and I do believe he's still among the top producers in the first round of his respective draft.
The Golden Ticket pretty much saved us, that's for sure.
As for Colorado, I don't feel bad for them either. Their fans were obnoxious to deal with during their fluke year with their #whynotus slogan. I chuckled hard during the draft lottery when the Avs lost, because their twitter account tweeted a simple "NO" as a reaction

 

[Soundwave]

This doesnt address what I was asking about. You made a claim that Eberle has regressed for 4 years. I am challenging you to support that claim.

Eberle, Jordan

2013-14: 0.812 ppg
2014-15: 0.77 ppg
2015-16: 0.68 ppg
2016-17: 0.62 ppg
2016-17 playoffs: 0.15 ppg

The last two seasons are bolded because his PPG continues to drop despite having Connor McDavid, the best player the Oilers have had in probably 30 years here and the Art Ross Trophy winner in 16-17 ... and his numbers ... still ... find ... a ... way ... to ... drop.

It's borderline remarkable actually. He's like the hockey version of Benjamin Button, but instead of aging backwards his production inexplicably drops the better talent you put around him.

 

[shoop]

A veteran that can put up the points, has scored in clutch playoff games, has won cups, and know what it takes to win aka Justin Williams whom I would love to have on this team. He'll be a great fit, so I hope the Oilers target him and that he's interested in coming here as well.

Would $4M/ for two years get Williams signed?

Then you trade Eberle for a 4/5 D and either a 3 C or a backup goalie.

The last two seasons are bolded because his PPG continues to drop despite having Connor McDavid, the best player the Oilers have had in probably 30 years here and the Art Ross Trophy winner in 16-17 ... and his numbers ... still ... find ... a ... way ... to ... drop.

But, but he only had one bad year and he's going to bounce back when healthy next year even though he's not going to sniff first line minutes no matter what.

 

[Paralyzer008]

A veteran that can put up the points, has scored in clutch playoff games, has won cups, and know what it takes to win aka Justin Williams whom I would love to have on this team. He'll be a great fit, so I hope the Oilers target him and that he's interested in coming here as well.

If Edmonton wants right winger depth this summer, there's a lot of it.

I mean, I love the potential of Jesse Puljujarvi, Anton Slepyshev and Spencer Foo (if he signs here) but at the same time, this might be our best shot at a cup we get, so I'd like something more proven to load up with.

I look at Justin Williams + Patrick Eaves as awesome additions, even Jaromir Jagr would be fun with Leon.

James Neal who just went exposed would be a nice add, he usually wrecks the Ducks.

Former Oilers David Perron + Sam Gagner would nice as compliments next to McDavid and Draisaitl respectively.

Jason Pominville is a nice veteran add who has a history of playoff scoring who might get bought out by Minny.

Alex Radulov...well, that's a dream, but only if he's on a 3 year deal max.

Lots of options though. I'll pass on Oshie because I think he'll cost 6 and in that case I'd rather just keep Eberle.