Rumor: Rumours & Proposals | Chia Talk Ban | Oilers Sign KHL G Mikko Koskinen, What's Next?

[Little Fury]

Everyone is also gushing about poile who first became a GM way back in 83 but has yet to a win a single cup.

Building a consistently competitive team is a GMs job. Winning a Cup largely depends on circumstances beyond their control.

 

[MessierII]

Building a consistently competitive team is a GMs job. Winning a Cup largely depends on circumstances beyond their control.

One finals run in almost 40 years though? I mean it’s better than Toronto’s drought but it’s not good. That’s a loooong time to only make one cup run.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

None of this explains why you think GMs should get to walk away from their mistakes without any sort of penalty.

I have never said that GMs should walk away from mistakes without any sort of penalty.

I responded to your comment that a buyout should only be allowed once per CBA cycle, which is every 5-10 years depending on the length of the CBA agreement. To allow only one buyout in that timeline is not equitable for teams.

The current buyout penalizes teams in terms of cap space and I am fine with that. Some here want a buyout to not hit the cap and my comment was that I did not believe players would agree to that, and others have said owners would not agree to that, which also makes sense.

 

[Little Fury]

One finals run in almost 40 years though? I mean it’s better than Toronto’s drought but it’s not good. That’s a loooong time to only make one cup run.

More than 1,300 wins says he must be doing something right.

 

[Little Fury]

I have never said that GMs should walk away from mistakes without any sort of penalty.

You're right, that was someone else. Apologies.

I responded to your comment that a buyout should only be allowed once per CBA cycle, which is every 5-10 years depending on the length of the CBA agreement. To allow only one buyout in that timeline is not equitable for teams.

The current buyout penalizes teams in terms of cap space and I am fine with that. Some here want a buyout to not hit the cap and my comment was that I did not believe players would agree to that, and others have said owners would not agree to that, which also makes sense.

My point is if you are going to give GMs a get out of jail free card in the form of a compliance buyout that doesn't count against the cap, there needs to be some other way to limit its overuse.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

More than 1,300 wins says he must be doing something right.

Look at how long it took him to get his team to become a legitimate contender.

 

[redgrant]

More than 1,300 wins says he must be doing something right.

Most overrated GM. He has a ton of losses. When you hold a position that long you get both. The reality is hes never won a cup ever after 4 decades in the game.

 

[MessierII]

More than 1,300 wins says he must be doing something right.

That’s a given when you’ve been employed as a GM for 38 years.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

You're right, that was someone else. Apologies.

My point is if you are going to give GMs a get out of jail free card in the form of a compliance buyout that doesn't count against the cap, there needs to be some other way to limit its overuse.

No worries, hard to keep conversations straight in a forum setting.

I agree with you 100% regarding unlimited compliance buyouts. Teams will want to use it as a way to erase their mistakes, what they want and what players will agree to are going to have to be negotiated. I would not be surprised if there were no compliance buyouts coming in 2020 because if the league and the NHLPA both agree not to open the CBA, then the existing contract continues on, hence no opportunity to negotiate a compliance buyout exists.

The current CBA expires after the 2021–22 season.

 

[joestevens29]

Most overrated GM. He has a ton of losses. When you hold a position that long you get both. The reality is hes never won a cup ever after 4 decades in the game.

I don't know about that. The reality is he has built a pretty competitive team that looks like it should be competitive for some years to come. The other reality is no matter how good you are it doesn't always mean you are going to get the top result.

Look at Dwayne Casey, top coach and probably going to be fired. With this many teams in sports nowadays nothing is a sure thing.

 

[Bank Shot]

No worries, hard to keep conversations straight in a forum setting.

I agree with you 100% regarding unlimited compliance buyouts. Teams will want to use it as a way to erase their mistakes, what they want and what players will agree to are going to have to be negotiated. I would not be surprised if there were no compliance buyouts coming in 2020 because if the league and the NHLPA both agree not to open the CBA, then the existing contract continues on, hence no opportunity to negotiate a compliance buyout exists.

The current CBA expires after the 2021–22 season.

No way are the players not going to open the CBA in 2020. Owners already offered them the Korea Olympics if they extended the CBA until 2022 and the players shot it down.

There will be compliance buyouts for sure. Its good for the high spending teams and its good for the players as it opens up new cap space. I put the chance of compliance buyouts happening at about 99%. Just like the chances of the players using the inflator. Happens. Every. Year.

 

[Little Fury]

Most overrated GM. He has a ton of losses. When you hold a position that long you get both. The reality is hes never won a cup ever after 4 decades in the game.

Most overrated accomplishment.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Most overrated accomplishment.

The sole goal of any player, coach or GM is to win a Stanley Cup. Poile let Suter walk and prior to last season Nashville was a good team but nothing special. He's done a good job overall and to his credit he stocked up on defense and used them as currency when necessary to fill holes on the team. That said they were without a 1C for eons, people ***** at Chia for not getting a 1D for 3 years, how many did take for Poile to get a 1C? This isn't going to turn into a Chia debate as there are threads for that but I'm using that as a reference as to why Poile until recently was not held in nearly as high of regard.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

No way are the players not going to open the CBA in 2020. Owners already offered them the Korea Olympics if they extended the CBA until 2022 and the players shot it down.

There will be compliance buyouts for sure. Its good for the high spending teams and its good for the players as it opens up new cap space. I put the chance of compliance buyouts happening at about 99%. Just like the chances of the players using the inflator. Happens. Every. Year.

Remember Seattle is coming online the same year as the options to open the CBA. Players want to risk losing a season the same year an expansion team, and the 50 NHL contracts it provides, comes online? I am not so sure about that and the Olympics appeal to a small percentage of the players. Most of the players dont play, and therefore wont want to burn a season of lost pay checks and possibly careers just so the elite players can have their fun.

 

[joestevens29]

The sole goal of any player, coach or GM is to win a Stanley Cup. Poile let Suter walk and prior to last season Nashville was a good team but nothing special. He's done a good job overall and to his credit he stocked up on defense and used them as currency when necessary to fill holes on the team. That said they were without a 1C for eons, people ***** at Chia for not getting a 1D for 3 years, how many did take for Poile to get a 1C? This isn't going to turn into a Chia debate as there are threads for that but I'm using that as a reference as to why Poile until recently was not held in nearly as high of regard.

But at the same time he had a lot of success without that 1c as they were built differently. There are teams with real good 1c's that don't win the cup either, so do we give that GM a tip of that hat for being able to get a 1c?

 

[Bryanbryoil]

But at the same time he had a lot of success without that 1c as they were built differently. There are teams with real good 1c's that don't win the cup either, so do we give that GM a tip of that hat for being able to get a 1c?

Really? How many WCF's was his team in?

 

[joestevens29]

Really? How many WCF's was his team in?

I think missing the playoffs only 3 times in 14 years while being a team that had internal caps for much of it is quite successful.

 

[Little Fury]

The sole goal of any player, coach or GM is to win a Stanley Cup.

Yeah, but winning the Stanley cup is much more about who gets lucky/hot at the right time than building a consistently successful team.

Poile let Suter walk and prior to last season Nashville was a good team but nothing special. He's done a good job overall and to his credit he stocked up on defense and used them as currency when necessary to fill holes on the team. That said they were without a 1C for eons, people ***** at Chia for not getting a 1D for 3 years, how many did take for Poile to get a 1C? This isn't going to turn into a Chia debate as there are threads for that but I'm using that as a reference as to why Poile until recently was not held in nearly as high of regard.

Poile waited until there was a good deal for a 1C and he had enough positional strength at D to make a trade.

 

[nabob]

Pulju just finished his draft +2 season. He scored 20 points in 65 games.

In Draisaitl's draft +2 season he scored 51 points in 72 games. He was 19 years old to start that season...

Are you really making a "birth month" argument? You get evaluated against your draft cohort and (eventually) years of experience in the NHL. Drai's 2nd season was also his draft +2 season... same as Pulju, and he'd already taken the leap.

I'm a Pulju fan, I believe he'll make it... but to suggest he has trended with a Drai-like trajectory is false.

He's a year behind Drai IMO. In Drai's second year he was given top 6 minutes from the day he was called up and stayed there even when he was struggling. He was also stapled to a Hart trophy nominee almost all year in his second season. Hopefully Puljujarvi comes into camp having trained properly and worked on the weak parts of his game and doesn't give the coach any reason to demote him.

 

[redgrant]

Most overrated accomplishment.

Id rather be a 25 year old bruin fan than a 25 year old sharks fan. Cups matter not just having a good team every year.

 

[Little Fury]

Id rather be a 25 year old bruin fan than a 25 year old sharks fan. Cups matter not just having a good team every year.

 

[redgrant]

The point is cups matter. San Jose has a good team every year and they dont do much with that. Boston for all its faults gave its fans a moment to smile. They have good years, bad years compared to SJ which is essentially consistently a strong team.

 

[Little Fury]

The point is cups matter. San Jose has a good team every year and they dont do much with that. Boston for all its faults gave its fans a moment to smile. They have good years, bad years compared to SJ which is essentially consistently a strong team.

I know Cups matter. They're also a lousy way to evaluate GMs because they have very little control over whether or not a team actually wins the Cup, which is the whole point of this conversation.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

The point is cups matter. San Jose has a good team every year and they dont do much with that. Boston for all its faults gave its fans a moment to smile. They have good years, bad years compared to SJ which is essentially consistently a strong team.

Winning the Stanley Cup is an overrated accomplishment. It's as easy as Borscht. How could you not know that?

 

[Little Fury]

Winning the Stanley Cup is an overrated accomplishment. It's as easy as Borscht. How could you not know that?

Yeah, that's totally the argument and you aren't strawmanning at all. good contribution.