Rumour, Trade and Free Agent Discussion - 2020/21 Edition Part II

[Mortimer Snerd]

Supposedly Winnipeg kicking tires on Malkin. I know it’s just hockey buzz but what would it take to get him here ??

Laine plus ???


Something I would consider for sure and make us a better team immediately

I'd want Malkin to play with Laine, not instead of Laine. Interesting possibility though. He is 34 but still playing really well. Only 2 years left at 9.5.

If we are going to give them 22 YO Patrik for 34 YO Malkin, there needs to be more to the deal.

 

[voyageur]

The Armia trade was probably Chevy’s darkest day at the helm (yes, worse than the Stanley pick and the Hayes trade). Just absolutely know excuse to give up Armia like that. If they really wanted to dump Mason they likely could’ve given up a lesser pick or prospect. Really, they should’ve either bought Mason out or ate the contract for one more year. Armia was a much too high price to pay to cover for that. I know they wanted to make a last ditch effort at Stastny, but Armia was not the guy. f*** Vegas, by the way.

Perreault has always come up in trade talks on here so I can understand wanting to jettison him back then but I also understand wanting to keep him. I would’ve gotten rid of him over Armia, but the Jets probably figured they’d make another run (and really, we almost beat the Blues with Binnington playing in God mode, who knows what could’ve happened?) and thought Frenchie would help the run the most.

Myers is another guy who was playing well at the time and again, wasn’t a piece that a contender should be trading away.

I can understand why the Jets kept them.

You are forgetting about the Cap, and Roslovic looking very promising in his rookie season. In retrospect the Jets would have been better off keeping Armia than Tanev. Both are missed on the PK. But as it is, he would have been a UFA this season anyways, hard to say if he would have been a long term investment, with no top 6 opening for him. And two pretty good 3rd liners in Lowry and Copp on good deals. Good for him getting an opportunity to play with stars like Suzuki and Drouin, sometimes you land in the right place at the right time, might help him grow as a player, where he would have been a possession grinder in his role here. The unfortunate thing after our WCF run is that we went back to being a 2+1 + 4th line, that didn't get any ice time. Armia was a very good energy player for us, I'd have to agree.

 

[BatVader]

I wonder if EDM would be interested in some kind of Laine for Draisaitl deal.

Draisaitl would be a great add, and would be amazing with Ehlers or Connor.

Laine with McDavid.... just damn

But i guess if we’re looking to move Laine due to money we can’t really afford Draisaitl...huh?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The Armia trade was probably Chevy’s darkest day at the helm (yes, worse than the Stanley pick and the Hayes trade). Just absolutely know excuse to give up Armia like that. If they really wanted to dump Mason they likely could’ve given up a lesser pick or prospect. Really, they should’ve either bought Mason out or ate the contract for one more year. Armia was a much too high price to pay to cover for that. I know they wanted to make a last ditch effort at Stastny, but Armia was not the guy. f*** Vegas, by the way.

Perreault has always come up in trade talks on here so I can understand wanting to jettison him back then but I also understand wanting to keep him. I would’ve gotten rid of him over Armia, but the Jets probably figured they’d make another run (and really, we almost beat the Blues with Binnington playing in God mode, who knows what could’ve happened?) and thought Frenchie would help the run the most.

Myers is another guy who was playing well at the time and again, wasn’t a piece that a contender should be trading away.

I can understand why the Jets kept them.

I can understand it - but I will disagree absolutely till the day I die.

An average GM makes those decisions. A good one is better able to recognize when it is time to optimize the value of diminishing assets. You've got to cash in when you can. Just my opinion, but I am sticking with it.

 

[Whileee]

I still prefer Cirelli to Danault or just about any other listed 2C option.
Young kid with lots of promise who is already proving himself on one of the best teams in the league.
I think it is a huge fail if Chevy doesn’t OS or trade for him.
After throwing around 1st round picks for rentals the last 3 years, there is zero excuses to not go after a player like Cirelli Who would be a long term fit and solution

Even if Chevy wants to, Cirelli would want to play in Winnipeg before signing an offer sheet. It's not just up to the offering team. If the Bolts are thinking about trading Cirelli, the Jets should certainly investigate trade options. But I have a feeling that Cirelli might be a bit overvalued, now.

 

[snowkiddin]

You are forgetting about the Cap, and Roslovic looking very promising in his rookie season. In retrospect the Jets would have been better off keeping Armia than Tanev. Both are missed on the PK. But as it is, he would have been a UFA this season anyways, hard to say if he would have been a long term investment, with no top 6 opening for him. And two pretty good 3rd liners in Lowry and Copp on good deals. Good for him getting an opportunity to play with stars like Suzuki and Drouin, sometimes you land in the right place at the right time, might help him grow as a player, where he would have been a possession grinder in his role here. The unfortunate thing after our WCF run is that we went back to being a 2+1 + 4th line, that didn't get any ice time. Armia was a very good energy player for us, I'd have to agree.

IIRC (and I may not be) we were fine cap-wise if we weren’t going to retain Stastny. Wheeler was on his old contract making 5.3. Morrissey was a hair over 3 on a bridge. Trouba was mid 5s I believe. Connor was still on his ELC. We had the cap space to eat Mason for one more year and not lose anyone. I believe Armia was traded so we could keep Stastny, but obviously that gamble was ill-advised and didn’t pay off.

I know you can’t keep everyone but I think I would’ve preferred Armia over Tanev or Copp. I think the hope was also for Vesalainen to replace (and maybe be an upgrade) on him and while I think that still might end up happening, it certainly didn’t give us any help the past couple years in the playoffs.

 

[BatVader]

Even if Chevy wants to, Cirelli would want to play in Winnipeg before signing an offer sheet. It's not just up to the offering team. If the Bolts are thinking about trading Cirelli, the Jets should certainly investigate trade options. But I have a feeling that Cirelli might be a bit overvalued, now.

I disagree about Cirelli being overvalued... that’s a term I reserve for Domi, Granlund, Danault, and other names that have been mentioned repeatedly.
A 22yr old left handed C who’s already playing top 6 in Tampa is not a player I’d deemed overvalued when brought up.
He is exactly what we need

 

[voyageur]

Yeah and Laine's 16 pp points last year are 3 more pp points then Danault has in his entire career. The game isn't just played at ES, PP production is incredibly important and Laine averages 14 pp goals and 23 pp points a year.

Our PP was incredibly mediocre prior to getting Laine. Hes the single biggest factor in having a consistient top 5 to 10 pp these past 3 years. For those paying attention it was goaltendong and our pp that got us to the post season this year.

Quite trying to cherry pick stats to try to make Laine look bad. Danault is a 45 to 50 point player. Laine is a 70 to 75 point player that can score 40 plus goals ans at 22 still has plenty of room to grow.

Danault isn't a PP player, he's a PKer, took more draws than any centre in the league. With efficiency. Those stats often get overlooked. I'm talking about possession as the fundamental difference between the two. Laine is an elite sniper, there's no overlooking that. I don't think he's the only reason for success on the PP though, as we saw without Buff doing Buff things, this team was easier to defend on the PP. You can blame Wheeler, for trying 40 to 50 foot saucer passes across the seam, or the predictability of the unit as a whole. Laine still has to make improvement on the PP, in terms of reads. It would be nice to see him score from 5 feet once in awhile, those are playoff goals. Hopefully he puts it together this year, it's the biggest one of his career perhaps, in terms of contract.

Danault would have a career year centreing Laine and Ehlers that's why Chevy would be interested in him. I'm sure the Blackhawks with Bowman, Chevy, and Bergevin would have scouted him. But I don't think we have the right trade pieces. The 1st would start it, but I can't see how Montreal can keep rebuilding, without trading Price or Weber.

If Montreal asks about Laine, he'd be my first choice as part of the return. That's still my thoughts.

 

[snowkiddin]

I can understand it - but I will disagree absolutely till the day I die.

An average GM makes those decisions. A good one is better able to recognize when it is time to optimize the value of diminishing assets. You've got to cash in when you can. Just my opinion, but I am sticking with it.

I think it was more obvious to at least offload Myers at the TDL last year instead of buying Hayes. We gave up our first (irrelevant that we got it back in the Trouba trade, also irrelevant that Heinola looks like he’ll be better than Trouba, it was still a wasted asset) and a nice chippy player in Lemieux (boy, he would’ve been good this year against Calgary) for essentially nothing. The team was very clearly trending down (yes, I know I said we almost got by STL, but there was a clear difference between 2019 and 2018 Jets) and it would’ve been better, IMO, to boot Myers off to a contender and recuperate some assets. If we don’t trade for Hayes, and maybe get a 1st for Myers from a contender, we are in a much better spot. Then Trouba goes to Rangers for Pionk and maybe one of their young centres or this year’s pick (they wouldn’t have known it was Laf at the time, but they wouldn’t have given us the Kakko pick).

So we’d have still had Lemieux and Heinola, but added a late first from Myers (think of grabbing someone like a Kaliyev or Ryan Suzuki) plus a young C prospect (Howden or Andersson) OR the Rangers 2021 pick.

 

[snowkiddin]

I wonder if EDM would be interested in some kind of Laine for Draisaitl deal.

Draisaitl would be a great add, and would be amazing with Ehlers or Connor.

Laine with McDavid.... just damn

But i guess if we’re looking to move Laine due to money we can’t really afford Draisaitl...huh?

Drai is arguably the second best player in the league. Edmonton won’t trade him. And he is absolutely atrocious defensively, not something we really want for the price it will cost.

 

[BatVader]

Drai is arguably the second best player in the league. Edmonton won’t trade him. And he is absolutely atrocious defensively, not something we really want for the price it will cost.

Why you gotta poop on my party...lol

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think it was more obvious to at least offload Myers at the TDL last year instead of buying Hayes. We gave up our first (irrelevant that we got it back in the Trouba trade, also irrelevant that Heinola looks like he’ll be better than Trouba, it was still a wasted asset) and a nice chippy player in Lemieux (boy, he would’ve been good this year against Calgary) for essentially nothing. The team was very clearly trending down (yes, I know I said we almost got by STL, but there was a clear difference between 2019 and 2018 Jets) and it would’ve been better, IMO, to boot Myers off to a contender and recuperate some assets. If we don’t trade for Hayes, and maybe get a 1st for Myers from a contender, we are in a much better spot. Then Trouba goes to Rangers for Pionk and maybe one of their young centres or this year’s pick (they wouldn’t have known it was Laf at the time, but they wouldn’t have given us the Kakko pick).

So we’d have still had Lemieux and Heinola, but added a late first from Myers (think of grabbing someone like a Kaliyev or Ryan Suzuki) plus a young C prospect (Howden or Andersson) OR the Rangers 2021 pick.

Yes on all points.

 

[snowkiddin]

I disagree about Cirelli being overvalued... that’s a term I reserve for Domi, Granlund, Danault, and other names that have been mentioned repeatedly.
A 22yr old left handed C who’s already playing top 6 in Tampa is not a player I’d deemed overvalued when brought up.
He is exactly what we need

He’s overvalued in the sense that we’re expected to pay a 10 OA plus Heinola for him. Tampa is in cap hell. No way we bail them out that easily while giving them great assets too.

 

[BatVader]

He’s overvalued in the sense that we’re expected to pay a 10 OA plus Heinola for him. Tampa is in cap hell. No way we bail them out that easily while giving them great assets too.

Only way it costs that is if it’s an auction.. and hopefully we could get it done quick and quiet without that... but ultimately, I’d pay it if required.
Finally fill that 2C slot long term
Honestly, between Samberg and Heinola, I’d rather keep Samberg.
We aren’t collecting hockey cards, we're trying to build a team and if I have to trade a Heinola for a Cirelli, under our current team needs and circumstances, then I have no problem doing it

 

[snowkiddin]

Only way it costs that is if it’s an auction.. and hopefully we could get it done quick and quiet without that... but ultimately, I’d pay it if required.
Finally fill that 2C slot long term
Honestly, between Samberg and Heinola, I’d rather keep Samberg

I really haven’t been too impressed with Cirelli in these playoffs. I wouldn’t even consider that package. Wouldn’t do Heinola or 10OA straight up for him, never mind both.

 

[Whileee]

I think it was more obvious to at least offload Myers at the TDL last year instead of buying Hayes. We gave up our first (irrelevant that we got it back in the Trouba trade, also irrelevant that Heinola looks like he’ll be better than Trouba, it was still a wasted asset) and a nice chippy player in Lemieux (boy, he would’ve been good this year against Calgary) for essentially nothing. The team was very clearly trending down (yes, I know I said we almost got by STL, but there was a clear difference between 2019 and 2018 Jets) and it would’ve been better, IMO, to boot Myers off to a contender and recuperate some assets. If we don’t trade for Hayes, and maybe get a 1st for Myers from a contender, we are in a much better spot. Then Trouba goes to Rangers for Pionk and maybe one of their young centres or this year’s pick (they wouldn’t have known it was Laf at the time, but they wouldn’t have given us the Kakko pick).

So we’d have still had Lemieux and Heinola, but added a late first from Myers (think of grabbing someone like a Kaliyev or Ryan Suzuki) plus a young C prospect (Howden or Andersson) OR the Rangers 2021 pick.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I guess all the fans that are in "win now" mode would be up in arms about the idea of throwing in the towel on a 99 point team that was waiting for their top D and best play-driving forward to return from injury.

 

[BatVader]

I really haven’t been too impressed with Cirelli in these playoffs. I wouldn’t even consider that package. Wouldn’t do Heinola or 10OA straight up for him, never mind both.

Gotta get to the playoffs before you need to worry about playing in them.
He’s 22/23 yrs old... lots of learning and growing to do.
Besides, Ehlers went 0 points in 6 games last year and Connor was 1 point in 4 games this year.

 

[Whileee]

It seems very unlikely that the Habs would even consider trading Kotkaniemi for Heinola at this point.

 

[tbcwpg]

I wonder if EDM would be interested in some kind of Laine for Draisaitl deal.

Draisaitl would be a great add, and would be amazing with Ehlers or Connor.

Laine with McDavid.... just damn

But i guess if we’re looking to move Laine due to money we can’t really afford Draisaitl...huh?

Edmonton would never be interested in that.

 

[tbcwpg]

I think it was more obvious to at least offload Myers at the TDL last year instead of buying Hayes. We gave up our first (irrelevant that we got it back in the Trouba trade, also irrelevant that Heinola looks like he’ll be better than Trouba, it was still a wasted asset) and a nice chippy player in Lemieux (boy, he would’ve been good this year against Calgary) for essentially nothing. The team was very clearly trending down (yes, I know I said we almost got by STL, but there was a clear difference between 2019 and 2018 Jets) and it would’ve been better, IMO, to boot Myers off to a contender and recuperate some assets. If we don’t trade for Hayes, and maybe get a 1st for Myers from a contender, we are in a much better spot. Then Trouba goes to Rangers for Pionk and maybe one of their young centres or this year’s pick (they wouldn’t have known it was Laf at the time, but they wouldn’t have given us the Kakko pick).

So we’d have still had Lemieux and Heinola, but added a late first from Myers (think of grabbing someone like a Kaliyev or Ryan Suzuki) plus a young C prospect (Howden or Andersson) OR the Rangers 2021 pick.

I think it would've been a much harder sell to the average STH than HFJets, to sell at the deadline last year when the team was first or second in the Central.

 

[LowLefty]

Quite trying to cherry pick stats to try to make Laine look bad

Is it OK to cherry pick stats to make Laine look good?

 

[PhilJets]

Is it OK to cherry pick stats to make Laine look good?

Well actually Laine is good, to say anything lower is false.
We can argue if Laine is better than good though.

 

[LowLefty]

Well actually Laine is good, to say anything lower is false.
We can argue if Laine is better than good though.

I'll take that as a "Yes"

 

[boydkc]

What about a free agent Like Haula he might fit the centre position we need to fill.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Wild are shopping Dumba apparently, since they have Suter, Spurgeon and now Brodin to protect in the expansion draft.

It'll never happen, but send Wheeler home.

 

[KingBogo]

^
Too bad Rosie hasn't continued his puck-carrying savvy he should in later juniors and somewhat on the Moose rookie season. Coaching, style demand change, personal confidence appear to have stymied this in Rosie's tool-box. He should have been tried and tested much sooner, imo, at Center performing "his game" while learning to adjust to this level, then. Feels like he is still trying to find his game, niche under Maurice's control/command/ask.
Can't help but feel the timing, situation of young star players ahead of him along with Little, Perreault, Armia and Frolik playing ahead of him, and even r more veteran 3rd/4th liners stymied his opportunity, along with Maurice's playing decisions were roadblocks to his development as a center NHL level. No "one person's fault" per se, beyond his own not contributing, rising above in the few chances in early career, more on bad timing of his situation in this organization.

Not removing blame on player for poor performance personally or lack of making most of his opportunities.

Rosie's problem is he is terribly inconsistent, and he avoids the center of the ice and high traffic areas which is very problematic if a player aspires for the #2 C role.