Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Zzz... Zzzz...

[Mcnotloilersfan]

You actually look at three of the best teams in the league right now .... Minnesota, Pittsburgh, and Columbus ... and they're all riding high off peanut-priced assets that we let go and go basically nothing in return for.

Gagner is one of Columbus' leading scorers, Dubnyk is Minnesota's rock, Schultz is giving Pittsburgh a huge lift on their back end.

Winning the Maroon trade is nice, but it's not so great if you lose 1-2 trades for every 1 you win. That's not good asset management.

Here's a fun fact too ... Gagner, Dubnyk, and Schultz all had "lower lows" here than Eberle ever did. I'm dissapointed in Jordan and he deserves to face the music, but I draw the line at giving him away for peanuts.

Nope, not gonna do it. I don't want to find out 3-4 years down the line that he's scoring 30 goals for some other team while we're scrambling to find winger scoring depth or some crap. No thanks. If you trade him you better be getting like a Tyson Barrie in return, a real player that helps the team in some way.

And if the excuse is "well those guys are all sheltered" ... well gimme a break. Hockey gods blessed us with McDavid, Draisaitl, and we have support players now like Lucic and Sekera ... who is putting a gun to anyone's head and forcing these players to be played over their head here?

What was wrong with reducing Schultz's minutes? Why were we playing him to death on the top pairing when we knew it was drowning his confidence? It's not like we were even winning games, so what the hell was the point of doing that.

That's the same mentality of breaking up with someone, seeing how happy they are with someone else and regretting your decision. It is irrational. Chemistry wise it just didn't work and theres a very good chance that it never would have.

I'm sure Ducks fans feel that way about Maroon, but would he be thriving like this there? Probably not.

You can't let emotion get in the way of the process of making this team better. Emotion was left out of the Hall for Larsson trade which has been good for us so far.

 

[belair]

That's the same mentality of breaking up with someone, seeing how happy they are with someone else and regretting your decision. It is irrational. Chemistry wise it just didn't work and theres a very good chance that it never would have.

I'm sure Ducks fans feel that way about Maroon, but would he be thriving like this there? Probably not.

You can't let emotion get in the way of the process of making this team better. Emotion was left out of the Hall for Larsson trade which has been good for us so far.

Logic tells you that giving away one of our top producing wingers away for nothing or next to nothing is an inherently dumb move. No emotion there.

His $6m is an eyesore with that performance but people saying that money can be better spent need to turn their heads to the UFA market and realize it's the breeding ground for bad money. We've 'won' the day two years in a row and we've got long-term $5.5m and $6m contracts to show for it.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Logic tells you that giving away one of our top producing wingers away for nothing or next to nothing is an inherently dumb move. No emotion there.

His $6m is an eyesore with that performance but people saying that money can be better spent need to turn their heads to the UFA market and realize it's the breeding ground for bad money. We've 'won' the day two years in a row and we've got long-term $5.5m and $6m contracts to show for it.

I'm not saying for nothing, but this summer if we find a better way to spend that 6m, and it means moving him out for a low return why not? Who cares how the other team benefits (especially if they're in the East). If this team becomes better, I'm all for it.

 

[Seachd]

I'm not saying for nothing, but this summer if we find a better way to spend that 6m, and it means moving him out for a low return why not? Who cares how the other team benefits (especially if they're in the East). If this team becomes better, I'm all for it.

The answer is that very few teams can afford to move out a decent asset for a "low return". I really don't think the Oilers are one of them.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

The answer is that very few teams can afford to move out a decent asset for a "low return". I really don't think the Oilers are one of them.

Look at the whole deal though. Say we find 2 guys this summer who are solid middle 6 players who combine for a salary of 6m, and for cap reasons we need to move Eberle out to make it work. You're trading Eberle for 2 players that are a better fit, plus whatever we get for him.

In that case, it isn't a low return when you factor the cap space in too.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

You can't give up on a guy after one down year. If Eberle continues not to produce after this season then you consider trading him. Eberle at his best is far more valuable than anything he could fetch us on the trade market.

 

[oobga]

The problem with Eberle is his lack of willingness or ability to go into dangerous scoring areas like he did when he was younger. In more recent years he was spoiled but now he can't slide into the nice open space Taylor Hall used to open up by sucking two defenders over with his speed. The fact he wrecked what was once an accurate shot is just the cherry on the $6M cap hit turd.
https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/lw...us_asset/file/7727405/Eberle_shotdistance.jpg

I don't know how he couldn't get at least as much open ice as he did playing with Hall while playing with McDavid. Although, as we all know, he and McDavid have zero chemistry, so there aren't exactly many plays where McDavid is feeding Ebs in open ice because they're always completely out of sync.

 

[belair]

Look at the whole deal though. Say we find 2 guys this summer who are solid middle 6 players who combine for a salary of 6m, and for cap reasons we need to move Eberle out to make it work. You're trading Eberle for 2 players that are a better fit, plus whatever we get for him.

In that case, it isn't a low return when you factor the cap space in too.

Again you're putting far too much weight into the UFA market. There is a significant amount of risk out there and generally the best value deals are the ones with the most risk involved. And you're not only relying on one signing to replace Eberle's production, you're relying on two of them.

Also in doing so, you're essentially singlehandedly sabotaging whatever trade value he has left by signing his 'replacements' beforehand.

When Jordan Eberle is scoring goals and setting up goals, he's a great fit on this team. Teams need skill to round out their rosters.

 

[s7ark]

Why is it that this fan base in particular seems obsessed with having every player on the team be perfect at all aspects of the game? This player is too small, soft, slow, overpaid, old, etc. What other fan base expects perfection like we do? We always need a whipping boy, and because we are so vocal with the media about it, the team tends to listen. No wonder we keep trying to turn players into what they aren't, under the guise of 'rounding out their game'. And ditching previously successful player as soon as they go through a rough patch.

The team is finally starting to turn things around and all I read on here is trade X for nothing. They aren't perfect at everything! How dare they play in Oilers colors!

How many more times am I going to have to watch a former Oiler play very well for another team?

Ugh

 

[ujju2]

Why is it that this fan base in particular seems obsessed with having every player on the team be perfect at all aspects of the game? This player is too small, soft, slow, overpaid, old, etc. What other fan base expects perfection like we do? We always need a whipping boy, and because we are so vocal with the media about it, the team tends to listen. No wonder we keep trying to turn players into what they aren't, under the guise of 'rounding out their game'. And ditching previously successful player as soon as they go through a rough patch.

The team is finally starting to turn things around and all I read on here is trade X for nothing. They aren't perfect at everything! How dare they play in Oilers colors!

How many more times am I going to have to watch a former Oiler play very well for another team?

Ugh

I somewhat agree. However, I don't think we want every player to be perfect in all aspects. I think we just want our players to put in a constant effort. Is Maroon perfect? No. Is Pitlick perfect? No. But we like these kinds of players because they work hard for every second of every shift. I think it's fair to expect that out of all of our players.

 

[belair]

It's reasonable that people are upset about his lack of production. But when people throw around buzzwords like 'Chiarelli-type player' it's complete garbage. No GM in hockey ices 12 meatheads and expects to win a championship. Good teams are built with the right balance of toughness, competitiveness and skill.

 

[Zaddy]

Moving Eberle is one of the most stupid things you can do. If we had good RW depth and actually got a legit player back in a deal then sure, but without either of those things it makes zero sense. This is a guy whose career average is 63 points. Love him or hate him, it's not really that easy to replace his production. Sure his last two seasons hasn't been great but the guy is 26. He is going to have plenty more productive seasons in the NHL. Giving him away just to move his salary is stupid, especially since $6M doesn't really get you a better player anyway. Rather keep Eberle for the remaining two years on his contract than move him and sign a Backes/Ladd/Lucic type for 6+ years. The only guy I'd be interested in on the UFA market and that could replace Eberle is a guy like Oshie.

 

[s7ark]

I somewhat agree. However, I don't think we want every player to be perfect in all aspects. I think we just want our players to put in a constant effort. Is Maroon perfect? No. Is Pitlick perfect? No. But we like these kinds of players because they work hard for every second of every shift. I think it's fair to expect that out of all of our players.

I guess I should have added lazy to my list of adjectives. The fact of the matter is that not all players look the same when they play. Super Mario looked like he wasn't giving it his all. Sometimes players dont have to run around like a chicken with its head cut off to be effective.

These guys are trying to win every game. Whether it looks like that or not.

 

[SomeDudeOTI]

Another thing to remember about versteeg is he's from Lethbridge.. home and family is only 2 hours away from calgary.

 

[Canovin]

I guess I should have added lazy to my list of adjectives. The fact of the matter is that not all players look the same when they play. Super Mario looked like he wasn't giving it his all. Sometimes players dont have to run around like a chicken with its head cut off to be effective.

These guys are trying to win every game. Whether it looks like that or not.

Using Super Mario is a bad example. The NHL was too easy for guys like Wayne and Mario

 

[s7ark]

Using Super Mario is a bad example. The NHL was too easy for guys like Wayne and Mario

And yet he was criticized and called lazy for much of his career. Even the greatest players are susceptible to these kinds of unwarranted attacks.

To get into specifics, Pitlick and maroon were brought up. They are give it their all players by the eye because Pitlick goes a mile a minute and maroon fights through checks. However, pitlick's style of play makes him miss half of every season and maroon, isn't the speediest of players and doesn't have the greatest hockey sense.

All players have pluses and minuses to their games. No player is perfect at everything, not even the greatest ones of all time.

Does Eberle look like he floats around uninvolved with the play often? Yes. But he uses that to his advantage by being in open space for when the puck does get to him, so he can use his hands and shot to make teams pay. That is why he will often have a game where people rag on him all night and he ends up with 3 points. That is his style of game. And it's effective. He averages over 60 points and 20 goals per season. Teams need players that can put up points in order to win.

Sure he is having a down year. But all players have them. Good teams hold onto their players during down years so they can reap the benefits the following season when they snap out of it.

 

[ujju2]

And yet he was criticized and called lazy for much of his career. Even the greatest players are susceptible to these kinds of unwarranted attacks.

To get into specifics, Pitlick and maroon were brought up. They are give it their all players by the eye because Pitlick goes a mile a minute and maroon fights through checks. However, pitlick's style of play makes him miss half of every season and maroon, isn't the speediest of players and doesn't have the greatest hockey sense.

All players have pluses and minuses to their games. No player is perfect at everything, not even the greatest ones of all time.

Does Eberle look like he floats around uninvolved with the play often? Yes. But he uses that to his advantage by being in open space for when the puck does get to him, so he can use his hands and shot to make teams pay. That is why he will often have a game where people rag on him all night and he ends up with 3 points. That is his style of game. And it's effective. He averages over 60 points and 20 goals per season. Teams need players that can put up points in order to win.

Sure he is having a down year. But all players have them. Good teams hold onto their players during down years so they can reap the benefits the following season when they snap out of it.

I never said anything about Eberle's lack of production, because I do recognize that players go through slumps. I also agree that he's generally good at producing. Maybe that's because of his style where he slips away. But that does nothing to justify floating around in the defensive zone. You also responded to my examples of Pitlick and Maroon:

I think it's completely unfair to say Pitlick's style leads to injuries. He's just been incredibly unlucky.

As for Maroon, you bring up that he doesn't have much speed or great hockey sense. But that contradicts your previous point. Remember that you stated: "Why is it that this fan base in particular seems obsessed with having every player on the team be perfect at all aspects of the game?" But you also admit that the fan base likes players such as Maroon, who are also not perfect, thus your notion of us wanting perfect players is proven false. Also, remember that hockey sense and effort are not mutually exclusive.

You talk about how Ebs can score goals, so he's exempt from needing to put in effort. I will provide the example of the greatest goalscorer in the league right now (who happens to score by slipping away, as Ebs does). That is, Ovechkin. But you look at the effort that a guy like Ovi puts in, and compare it to Ebs. Ebs is never going to be Ovi, I know that. But I just want to see that effort.

By the way, I never said anything about trading him for less than he's worth. So that last sentence was unnecessary.

 

[belair]

I think it's completely unfair to say Pitlick's style leads to injuries. He's just been incredibly unlucky.

Nnnnnnnnnoooooope.

His style is exactly why he gets hurt all of the time.

He is a straight-forward crash-and-bang player. If he wasn't he would not be in the NHL.

 

[ujju2]

Nnnnnnnnnoooooope.

His style is exactly why he gets hurt all of the time.

He is a straight-forward crash-and-bang player. If he wasn't he would not be in the NHL.

Does every crash-and-bang player get hurt as much as he does?

 

[belair]

Does every crash-and-bang player get hurt as much as he does?

Not every crash-and-bang player plays as recklessly as he does.

 

[McTedi]

Does every crash-and-bang player get hurt as much as he does?

Probably not but Pitlick has more speed than most. A benefit in his game, a detriment to his health.

 

[Jet Walters]

Main board has a Landeskog to Kings rumour. Get in there and drive the price up Chia. I don't want the Avs to trade their best players to teams in the Pacific.

 

[belair]

Main board has a Landeskog to Kings rumour. Get in there and drive the price up Chia. I don't want the Avs to trade their best players to teams in the Pacific.

Let LA decimate their defense and farm system.

 

[Goulet17]

Let LA decimate their defense and farm system.

LA's system is already decimated and they are bad match (age wise) based on Sakic's comments from yesterday.

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/01/06/nathan-mackinnons-overtime-goal-lifts-avs-to-win-at-home/

“The only thing I’m going to do is what helps this franchise down the line,†Sakic said. “We’re not going to be looking to doing anything for just this year. When we talk trades with different teams, I’m looking at the future. That’s where we have to go. We have to get younger. We have some good young guys that hopefully can make the next step in the next year or two and that’s the direction we’re doing. We’re trying to build this up.â€

“Well, I don’t plan on moving a guy like MacKinnon, (Tyson) Jost, (Mikko) Rantanen, especially with their age,†Sakic said. “We have a lot of good pieces here. Will I be listening to different ideas on how to improve us and maybe get us younger and get more depth here? Yeah we’re going to do that.â€

 

[belair]

LA's system is already decimated and they are bad match (age wise) based on Sakic's comments from yesterday.

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/01/06/nathan-mackinnons-overtime-goal-lifts-avs-to-win-at-home/

“The only thing I’m going to do is what helps this franchise down the line,†Sakic said. “We’re not going to be looking to doing anything for just this year. When we talk trades with different teams, I’m looking at the future. That’s where we have to go. We have to get younger. We have some good young guys that hopefully can make the next step in the next year or two and that’s the direction we’re doing. We’re trying to build this up.â€

“Well, I don’t plan on moving a guy like MacKinnon, (Tyson) Jost, (Mikko) Rantanen, especially with their age,†Sakic said. “We have a lot of good pieces here. Will I be listening to different ideas on how to improve us and maybe get us younger and get more depth here? Yeah, we’re going to do that.â€

What a dip-****.

They need to fire that guy.

Duchene is 25. Landeskog is 24. Get younger? You need defense.