Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | OILERS Edition, Flames Talk Stays in the Out of Town Thread

[KlimasLoveChild]

Probably didn't want to come Edmonton for some reason.

I think he was just using Edmonton for negotiating leverage. Had his sights set on Winterpig the whole time. I have it on good authority that this is the message he left on Hollands voice mail shortly before signing....

 

[joestevens29]

It just helps with depths and injuries, but I think the Oilers were just happier to forget he existed.

My guess is like 4K & Skyler Brind'amour for a 7th.

You ain’t getting a pick for those misfits. You’re giving one up

 

[ThePhoenixx]

There is another clause that has been confirmed by the cap guys on here. They need to be on opening day roster or it will hurt us later

Performance Bonus Carryovers | Puckpedia

puckpedia.com

Performance Bonuses and Carryover Overage | Puckpedia

puckpedia.com

NHL CBA FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

NHL collective bargaining agreement (CBA) frequently asked questions and answers

www.capfriendly.com

Are you sure? Performance bonuses are counted at the end of the year. Then the team can use next years cap to cover it.

Perhaps it may be a case of games played factors into how much the performance bonus counts against the cap, but I see no mention of that. That doesn't seem to follow whether they are there at the start though.

Would need to go straight to the CBA to see if the above sites missed it.

You may be thinking of LTIR and how there is no cap accrual depending on which route one takes? LTIR before or after the season starts?

 

[joestevens29]

Performance Bonus Carryovers | Puckpedia

puckpedia.com

Performance Bonuses and Carryover Overage | Puckpedia

puckpedia.com

NHL CBA FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

NHL collective bargaining agreement (CBA) frequently asked questions and answers

www.capfriendly.com

Are you sure? Performance bonuses are counted at the end of the year. Then the team can use next years cap to cover it.

Perhaps it may be a case of games played factors into how much the performance bonus counts against the cap, but I see no mention of that. That doesn't seem to follow whether they are there at the start though.

Would need to go straight to the CBA to see if the above sites missed it.

You may be thinking of LTIR and how there is no cap accrual depending on which route one takes? LTIR before or after the season starts?

I wasn’t until I aske Fourier and mouser

We talked about it earlier in thread somewhere

 

[McDNicks17]

Performance Bonus Carryovers | Puckpedia

puckpedia.com

Performance Bonuses and Carryover Overage | Puckpedia

puckpedia.com

NHL CBA FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

NHL collective bargaining agreement (CBA) frequently asked questions and answers

www.capfriendly.com

Are you sure? Performance bonuses are counted at the end of the year. Then the team can use next years cap to cover it.

Perhaps it may be a case of games played factors into how much the performance bonus counts against the cap, but I see no mention of that. That doesn't seem to follow whether they are there at the start though.

Would need to go straight to the CBA to see if the above sites missed it.

You may be thinking of LTIR and how there is no cap accrual depending on which route one takes? LTIR before or after the season starts?

I can't find the source right now. I feel like it was PuckPedia on twitter, but I believe the gist of it was there's a weird quirk with bonuses when you're on LTIR.

If they're on your opening day roster, their cap hit is just their cap hit(Holloway = $925k). If they aren't and you call them up later, their cap hit becomes their salary + bonuses($1.425M for Holloway).


edit:
I'd guess this is what causes it:

How is LTIR Relief calculated?

LTIR relief comes in the form of two values: a salary relief pool, and a performance bonus relief pool.

These pools are determined the day the player is placed on LTIR. The salary relief pool is the player’s averaged salary excluding performance bonuses (their cap hit value). The performance bonus relief is the player’s total performance bonuses for this season (games played, A and B bonuses), regardless of if they are still achievable.

What if the team already has a player on LTIR?
The teams ACSL remains the same, and their salary relief pool increases by the player’s cap hit, and the performance bonus relief pool increases by the player’s performance bonuses.

How does a team use the base salary and performance bonus relief pools?​

As explained above, two pools are created when a player is placed on LTIR, a salary pool, and a performance bonus pool. If recalling a player would result in the team exceeding the ACSL, the team must have enough relief in the necessary pools. Only the players achievable performance bonuses are considered when they are recalled, for example, if a player has an 82 games played performance bonus of $500,000, and it is impossible for them to achieve those 82 games, the $500,000 performance bonus is no longer considered.

The following must be met to recall the player:

1. Players with no performance bonuses
   If a player has no performance bonuses, the team must have a salary relief pool that is equal to or greater than the player’s cap hit (annual averaged salary excluding performance bonuses).

2. Players with performance bonuses​

   The team must have a salary relief pool that is equal to or greater than the player’s cap hit. After the salary relief pool has been considered, the sum of the teams performance bonus pool and remaining salary relief pool must be equal to or greater than the player’s max achievable performance bonuses of the current season (the player’s achievable performance bonuses can come out of both the salary and performance bonus pool).

From: LTIR FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Since the Oilers won't have any performance bonus relief pool for LTIR(because neither Klefbom or Smith have them), they would need to use the salary relief pool for both the salary and the bonus which means the cap hit probably doesn't change, but they would still need the cap room for the normal cap hit + bonuses.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Man Miller got paid
that’s a lot of money for a guy who’s eclipsed 70 points twice in his career and is already 29

 

[ThePhoenixx]

I can't find the source right now. I feel like it was PuckPedia on twitter, but I believe the gist of it was there's a weird quirk with bonuses when you're on LTIR.

If they're on your opening day roster, their cap hit is just their cap hit(Holloway = $925k). If they aren't and you call them up later, their cap hit becomes their salary + bonuses($1.425M for Holloway).

Possible. I really don't want to peruse the CBA again. Lets go a little further.

Can teams be over the cap | Puckpedia

puckpedia.com

"If a team exceeds the cap through the use of LTIR, they can finish the season over the salary cap. In that case, if any performance bonuses are earned, they are carried forward as a cap hit to the following year as a performance bonus carryover overage."

Performance Bonuses Overage & 7.5% Cushion | Puckpedia

puckpedia.com

This is one rule that affects bonuses for the following year.

"For the purposes of the off-season cap limit, any bonus carryover overage that is going to apply to the upcoming year counts towards the off-season cap total, regardless of the day the bonuses are paid out."

This spells out the exception to the rule.

"The 7.5% performance bonus cushion is different from performance bonuses earned. As outlined above, during the year, potential performance bonuses for the current year don't count against the cap until the end of the year when actual bonuses earned are determined. The exception to that is that a team can only have up to 7.5% of the salary cap of potential performance bonuses. When a team has more than that ($6,112,500), the excess is a cap charge towards that year's cap hit."

So perhaps if somehow it caused the performance bonuses to go over 7.5%?

 

[VainGretzky]

1,1,2,3,4,47,8,10,10,11,14,15,22,22,32

Can any of you decipher these numbers relating to Oilers

 

[alphahelix]

1,1,2,3,4,47,8,10,10,11,14,15,22,22,32

Can any of you decipher these numbers relating to Oilers

Draft position of 1st round picks on the roster… not sure about 11 and 47 but whatever

Either that or the Fibonacci number sequence determining the spiral shape of the new McFarlane reverse retro oil drop logo.

 

[McDNicks17]

Possible. I really don't want to peruse the CBA again. Lets go a little further.

Can teams be over the cap | Puckpedia

puckpedia.com

"If a team exceeds the cap through the use of LTIR, they can finish the season over the salary cap. In that case, if any performance bonuses are earned, they are carried forward as a cap hit to the following year as a performance bonus carryover overage."

Performance Bonuses Overage & 7.5% Cushion | Puckpedia

puckpedia.com

This is one rule that affects bonuses for the following year.

"For the purposes of the off-season cap limit, any bonus carryover overage that is going to apply to the upcoming year counts towards the off-season cap total, regardless of the day the bonuses are paid out."

This spells out the exception to the rule.

"The 7.5% performance bonus cushion is different from performance bonuses earned. As outlined above, during the year, potential performance bonuses for the current year don't count against the cap until the end of the year when actual bonuses earned are determined. The exception to that is that a team can only have up to 7.5% of the salary cap of potential performance bonuses. When a team has more than that ($6,112,500), the excess is a cap charge towards that year's cap hit."

So perhaps if somehow it caused the performance bonuses to go over 7.5%?

I'd guess this is what causes it:

How is LTIR Relief calculated?

LTIR relief comes in the form of two values: a salary relief pool, and a performance bonus relief pool.

These pools are determined the day the player is placed on LTIR. The salary relief pool is the player’s averaged salary excluding performance bonuses (their cap hit value). The performance bonus relief is the player’s total performance bonuses for this season (games played, A and B bonuses), regardless of if they are still achievable.

What if the team already has a player on LTIR?
The teams ACSL remains the same, and their salary relief pool increases by the player’s cap hit, and the performance bonus relief pool increases by the player’s performance bonuses.

How does a team use the base salary and performance bonus relief pools?​

As explained above, two pools are created when a player is placed on LTIR, a salary pool, and a performance bonus pool. If recalling a player would result in the team exceeding the ACSL, the team must have enough relief in the necessary pools. Only the players achievable performance bonuses are considered when they are recalled, for example, if a player has an 82 games played performance bonus of $500,000, and it is impossible for them to achieve those 82 games, the $500,000 performance bonus is no longer considered.

The following must be met to recall the player:

1. Players with no performance bonuses
   If a player has no performance bonuses, the team must have a salary relief pool that is equal to or greater than the player’s cap hit (annual averaged salary excluding performance bonuses).

2. Players with performance bonuses​

   The team must have a salary relief pool that is equal to or greater than the player’s cap hit. After the salary relief pool has been considered, the sum of the teams performance bonus pool and remaining salary relief pool must be equal to or greater than the player’s max achievable performance bonuses of the current season (the player’s achievable performance bonuses can come out of both the salary and performance bonus pool).

From: LTIR FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Since the Oilers won't have any performance bonus relief pool for LTIR(because neither Klefbom or Smith have them), they would need to use the salary relief pool for both the salary and the bonus which means the cap hit probably doesn't change, but they would still need the cap room for the normal cap hit + bonuses.

If I'm reading it right, both Broberg and Holloway(or anyone with performance bonuses, really) would have to start on the roster and stay on it all season to avoid triggering the above with a recall.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Draft position of 1st round picks on the roster… not sure about 11 and 47 but whatever

Either that or the Fibonacci number sequence determining the spiral shape of the new McFarlane reverse retro oil drop logo.

Campbell is 11th overall.

 

[VainGretzky]

Draft position of 1st round picks on the roster… not sure about 11 and 47 but whatever

Either that or the Fibonacci number sequence determining the spiral shape of the new McFarlane reverse retro oil drop logo.

Lol missed a mark 4,4 Puljujarvi Kane 11 Campbell Oilers have 10 players drafted in the top 10 in the draft just shows the talent we have going into this season

 

[ThePhoenixx]

I'd guess this is what causes it:

​

From: LTIR FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Since the Oilers won't have any performance bonus relief pool for LTIR(because neither Klefbom or Smith have them), they would need to use the salary relief pool for both the salary and the bonus which means the cap hit probably doesn't change, but they would still need the cap room for the normal cap hit + bonuses.

If I'm reading it right, both Broberg and Holloway(or anyone with performance bonuses, really) would have to start on the roster and stay on it all season to avoid triggering the above with a recall.

If another player goes on LTIR then the LTIR pool increases.

The way this one is worded the only way this would hurt is if the Oilers didn't have enough room in the Performance bonus pool to call someone up. The Performance and LTIR pools are separate.

Say they were at 6 million for performance bonuses on the roster. Then they wanted to call someone up due to injury (LTIR), but the possible performance bonus was 500k.

The team could absorb the cap hit if it was equal to or less than the player on LTIR (floating LTIR), but not the performance bonus. They couldn't call the player up in that example because it exceeded the 7.5% allotted.

 

[brentashton]

I think he was just using Edmonton for negotiating leverage. Had his sights set on Winterpig the whole time. I have it on good authority that this is the message he left on Hollands voice mail shortly before signing....

 

[snipes]

You could role a low use 4th line, try and get a decent amount out of the 3rd line with Nuge as a prominent player there, this team could be extremely difficult to play against.

Imagine an opponent surviving a 90 sec offensive zone shift of E. Kane-McDavid-Yamo(for now) and then Hyman-Draisaitl-P. Kane role over the boards after, just an nightmare.

If you get P. Kane, and assuming just Puljujarvi and Foegele go out, you could go nuts and run a roster that looks like

E. Kane - McDavid - Yamamoto
Hyman - Draisaitl - P. Kane
Holloway - Nuge - Bourgault
Janmark - McLeod - Ryan
Shore, Gagner

WIth Nuge in the middle and the top-6 protection, that 3rd line could really flourish.

Gagner is with the Jets.

That forward core though would arguably be the best in the entire NHL.

 

[longtimeoilfan]

No Gagner … thank you! Big smile hearing that news.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Gagner is with the Jets.

That forward core though would arguably be the best in the entire NHL.

I did see that unfortunately, but yeah it would, which I'm TOTALLY on board for.

 

[29Beast97Mode]

All these long term contracts making Draisaitl and McDavids contracts look like steals. Miller making 500 k less than Draisaitl and he hasn't even hit 100 points in his career and he's 29. He's not even a point per game player in his career.

 

[SnipeShowJB11]

Man Miller got paid
that’s a lot of money for a guy who’s eclipsed 70 points twice in his career and is already 29

I love it as an Oilers fan. Think about it. Our top guys are McDavid and Drai. Their top paid forward is TJ Miller lol.

It will suck seeing more of his depressed/grumpy/PMS face

Drai will get a 4 million raise. McDavid another 2/3+

The cap is supposed to go up 1 million this year, 1 million next, and then up to 8 million 3 years from now

 

[McShogun99]

I love it as an Oilers fan. Think about it. Our top guys are McDavid and Drai. Their top paid forward is TJ Miller lol.

It will suck seeing more of his depressed/grumpy/PMS face

Drai will get a 4 million raise. McDavid another 2/3+

The cap is supposed to go up 1 million this year, 1 million next, and then up to 8 million 3 years from now

Half of that 8 million will go to Draisaitl’s extension.

 

[Magnum23]

Haha, Toronto’s not the only team with a cup winning “Murray” on their team! Now LFG!

There Murray will cost them many games our probably a lot less haha

$8m for 7 seasons for JT Miller. Good money, but hard to see where the big boost comes from in Vancouver.

Our two Western Canadian rivals are building very beatable teams.

I know right, I guess I was wrong about Holland. Pretty good negotiator only 1 bad deal so far

J.T. Miller contract vs Jonathan Huberdeau contract

choose your poison

Huberdeau has to thank Thachuk and Gaudreau for that extra 2 milly per year

 

[SnipeShowJB11]

Half of that 8 million will go to Draisaitl’s extension.

Yeah sure, but it is still the cap going up. Imagine it didn't?

 

[KlimasLoveChild]

View attachment 581263

Just joking around at Gagners expense. I know it has occurred in the past when players have led the oilers to believe they were interested only to sign elsewhere for big money or bigger then they otherwise would have received if there wasn't third party interest. Clearly this wasn't the case here as Gagner signed for league minimum. A bit of sarcasm that's all. Don't hurt me...I'm a bit shell shocked after being threatened on the ctrain this week by a meth head. There is only so much a man can take....haha

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

lol i bet we're still going to hear the 'Stauffer doesn't have any sources' crap on these boards.

also remember when everyone laughed at Craig Button for comparing Ryan Murray to Dan Hamhuis in his draft year and then Murray has gone on to have an inferior career to this point than Dan Hamhuis.