Proposal: Rumors & Proposals Thread | No More Hamonic

[duul]

Looks a hell of a lot better than Dumba, that's for sure. He's totally lost in his own zone.

Yep. Dumba looks braindead.

Ceci or Tanev would be a very welcome addition to a team like ours.

 

[Zaddy]

I forget where I read it but it was very subtle. Something like don't be surprised if Edmonton is looking to add J. Staal. Only remember it because it seemed weird we would be looking at Staal. But when you really think about it if we could get Carolina to retain a bit of salary he'd be the perfect 2nd/3rd line center for us. Stanley cup winner, experienced, big body, can shut down the top centers in the west, etc... I doubt its likely but can you imagine how our team would look if we could perhaps pull off a deal like:

To Edm: Staal(2M retained), Faulk

To Carolina: RNH, 4th, Reinhart/Nurse

It really changes the look pf our defence and offence. Carolina should have no problem holding unto the cap hit either as they'll be in tough to hit the floor this year.

I don't think they are very interested in retaining 2M until 22/23.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

The point many are missing here with respect to Brodin proposals/ideas is that it is extremely difficult to have a serious discussion with posters who actually think that Brodin is equal to Gryba except that he is soft .... To start off any of these discussions I think you should first ask what the poster responding actually thinks about the players involved because it will be fairly difficult for you to convince anyone that EDM should be trading RNH for a Gryba minus physicality clone even if Coyle is included.

Edit. I am honestly not judging anyone's opinions, it's just that it becomes difficult (for me impossible) to discuss with that kind of opinion because it is just too far away from what I perceive as the reality.

The concern with Brodin is the complete and utter lack of any offensive game at all.

 

[joestevens29]

If Carolina wanted RNH, I bet they wouldn't move us the D-man we'd need.

Could see them offering Wisniewski + Aho + 13th overall + a later pick.

Francis is a smart GM, otherwise we'd have Faulk already.

I think I rather have Hainsey than Wisniewski.

I have to ask why are they looking for a center? What is wrong with Lindholm and Rask playing behind Staal?

 

[Young Lions*]

It's pretty easy to say "Blah blah blah, this deal sucks. This player sucks." without offering alternatives. If you shoot something down I'd expect to hear an alternative. This is a discussions board, no?

I don't know what a realistic alternative deal involving RNH for a D-man is. But I don't need to to know that Brodin for RNH is bad for the Oilers.

Brodin AND Coyle. It's a big difference. But maybe you don't think a guy that quite literally checks all the boxes of what the Oilers need isn't much of a plus. He's signed long-term at a reasonable price too.

A trade can represent fair market value and still be a bad trade. Again: the heart of the deal is RNH for Brodin, with Coyle thrown in to fill the 3C spot. Brodin doesn't meet the Oilers' needs for a right shooting top four d-man who can play at both ends of the rink. So what's the point?

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I think I rather have Hainsey than Wisniewski.

I have to ask why are they looking for a center? What is wrong with Lindholm and Rask playing behind Staal?

One Carolina fan tried to convince me that Wisniewski for Pouliot straight up was fair value, then got pissy when I refused.

 

[LaGu]

The concern with Brodin is the complete and utter lack of any offensive game at all.

That doesn't mean he's equal to Gryba minus physicality, but that was the comparison that was brought up previously.

I think that the concern about his offense is somewhat exaggerated. I have seen him play alot in Sweden and in Minnesota. There is a smart puck-mover in there who I am willing to bet would be a great asset on this team. Again, I was one of the only ones saying that Klefbom's offense wasn't that bad despite that almost everyone on these boards used the exact term "black-hole offensively" a couple of years ago.

In my world Brodin is and has always been the smarter D man than Klefbom, still is, and I have no doubt that played in the right role he would develop his offense as well as his already excellent defense.

The point is that he is too smart of a player not to get there in my opinion, as Klefbom he always focused very much on defense but once the coach let's him lose more I have no doubt he will start putting up decent (relatively) points.

That is something we can argue, it's my point of view based on what I think to know about this player. I
Obviously I can be wrong but to change my point of view I would need something more than just that he is a Gryba minus physicality (I know you didn't say that).


I am not saying RNH for Brodin straight up, that would hurt, but if Brodin is a big piece of a deal with MIN for RNH I would definitely entertain the idea.

 

[joestevens29]

One Carolina fan tried to convince me that Wisniewski for Pouliot straight up was fair value, then got pissy when I refused.

I like Wisniewski a lot, he's a guy i think we should've been all over when CBJ traded him and then again when ANA traded him.

The thing is you are bringing him in as a #4. If healthy he can be on our top pairing, but you better be prepared for him to miss games.

 

[Zaddy]

The concern with Brodin is the complete and utter lack of any offensive game at all.

I think the lack of offense is really overstated and needs to be taken into context. Brodin has been playing all his NHL career in the defensive trap system of the Minnesota Wild. His role isn't exactly lending itself to offense. Just take a look at this zone starts, it's pretty brutal how many defensive zone starts / few offensive starts he's getting. Good luck being a top notch point producer in that situation.

Adam Larsson is in the same boat, yet somehow he's considered a very good defenseman now and I bet if someone proposed to trade for him everyone would gladly hop aboard. Larssons point totals this year was a whopping 18 points. His career high is 24. Yes, Larsson is a better defenseman than Brodin at this moment but I don't see why Brodin couldn't be on the same level soon enough. Put Brodin with someone like Klefbom and you'll see that he's actually a very capable d-man.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

I think I rather have Hainsey than Wisniewski.

I have to ask why are they looking for a center? What is wrong with Lindholm and Rask playing behind Staal?

And to me Barrie makes even less sense but apparently he's available? Maybe Duchene too. Subban? Half of this crap could legitimately be smoke and mirrors.

And with Myers apparently going through surgery Trouba will be staying put at least until next year.

Maybe something shakes loose from St. Louis but I think they could wait a year too.

Fowler/Vats is a sure thing, I think. So that's good news. But they're also the worst of the bunch, IMO.

Brodin's main selling point is that he is friends with Klefbom. I'd probably rather have Scandella for the experience and 10 extra pounds though but at this point im splitting hairs.

So maybe the real options are going to be Anaheim, cap dumps and an FA and that seems kind of precarious.

 

[joestevens29]

And to me Barrie makes even less sense but apparently he's available? Maybe Duchene too. Subban? Half of this crap could legitimately be smoke and mirrors.

And with Myers apparently going through surgery Trouba will be staying put at least until next year.

Maybe something shakes loose from St. Louis but I think they could wait a year too.

Fowler/Vats is a sure thing, I think. So that's good news. But they're also the worst of the bunch, IMO.

Brodin's main selling point is that he is friends with Klefbom. I'd probably rather have Scandella for the experience and 10 extra pounds though but at this point im splitting hairs.

So maybe the real options are going to be Anaheim, cap dumps and an FA and that seems kind of precarious.

Everything out of Colorado makes sense because Roy doesn't make sense.

Everything out of Montreal makes sense because Montreal doesn't make sense.

 

[Zaddy]

I don't know what a realistic alternative deal involving RNH for a D-man is. But I don't need to to know that Brodin for RNH is bad for the Oilers.

A trade can represent fair market value and still be a bad trade. Again: the heart of the deal is RNH for Brodin, with Coyle thrown in to fill the 3C spot. Brodin doesn't meet the Oilers' needs for a right shooting top four d-man who can play at both ends of the rink. So what's the point?

So basically what this comes down to is that you undervalue both Coyle and Brodin. Coyle is not just some throw in. He fills a need on multiple levels and is probably one of the best replacements you can get for RNH. And in addition to that you get one of the top4 D you need. If anything it's Minnesota who turns down this deal.

 

[Paralyzer008]

How much would you pay Vancouver to acquire Jannik Hansen?

Seems like a player that would fit on our right side really nice and Benning can be an idiot at times.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I like Wisniewski a lot, he's a guy i think we should've been all over when CBJ traded him and then again when ANA traded him.

The thing is you are bringing him in as a #4. If healthy he can be on our top pairing, but you better be prepared for him to miss games.

The thing is you have no idea what Wisniewski has left at this point. He played one game last year. I'd have him in there as plan F (for fail) with Dennis Wideman.

If Either Wideman or Wisniewski are in our top 4 next year, we'd better fire up the 2017 draft thread right now.

 

[Joey Moss]

How much would you pay Vancouver to acquire Jannik Hansen?

Seems like a player that would fit on our right side really nice and Benning can be an idiot at times.

A 3rd and a prospect. Not sure I'd be willing to give up the 32nd pick due to him being 30.

 

[Paralyzer008]

A 3rd and a prospect. Not sure I'd be willing to give up the 32nd pick due to him being 30.

Absolute no brainer for me then.

Veteran 20 goal scorer who goes to the net and has some great speed.

If anyone is wondering "How can we get a Carl Hagelin like guy?"

3rd + a prospect for Hansen.

 

[joestevens29]

The thing is you have no idea what Wisniewski has left at this point. He played one game last year. I'd have him in there as plan F (for fail) with Dennis Wideman.

If Either Wideman or Wisniewski are in our top 4 next year, we'd better fire up the 2017 draft thread right now.

I think if you are getting Wis it's costing you next to nothing.

 

[belair]

I think the lack of offense is really overstated and needs to be taken into context. Brodin has been playing all his NHL career in the defensive trap system of the Minnesota Wild. His role isn't exactly lending itself to offense. Just take a look at this zone starts, it's pretty brutal how many defensive zone starts / few offensive starts he's getting. Good luck being a top notch point producer in that situation.

Adam Larsson is in the same boat, yet somehow he's considered a very good defenseman now and I bet if someone proposed to trade for him everyone would gladly hop aboard. Larssons point totals this year was a whopping 18 points. His career high is 24. Yes, Larsson is a better defenseman than Brodin at this moment but I don't see why Brodin couldn't be on the same level soon enough. Put Brodin with someone like Klefbom and you'll see that he's actually a very capable d-man.

Adam Larsson is also big and physical. And he also hasn't had the luxury of being sheltered into the league by Ryan Suter.

 

[McDNicks17]

Absolute no brainer for me then.

Veteran 20 goal scorer who goes to the net and has some great speed.

If anyone is wondering "How can we get a Carl Hagelin like guy?"

3rd + a prospect for Hansen.

He had an extremely high ONSH% last season.

You're likely looking at more of a 10-15 goal scorer.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

Adam Larsson is also big and physical. And he also hasn't had the luxury of being sheltered into the league by Ryan Suter.

He did have Andy "Mark Fayne" Greene though.

But I agree. Brodin seems fairly limited.

 

[SDig14]

So how much value can we get out of Carolina if we are willing to drop from 4 to 13?

Faulk + 13 overall for 4th overall plus X?

What is the X?

It would have be very substantial still IMO, which is enough to make them deal a player that could be available but is not even remotely being shopped at all.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I don't see Carolina moving Faulk THIS year for a couple of reasons. Yeah, they have prospect depth, but Slavin and Pesce (and even Hanifin to a degree) will really have to prove they can repeat and build on it before Faulk is expendable. Secondly, they move Faulk and the RHD depth is Pesce (69 NHL games), Wiz (coming of major ACL surgery and only under contract for 1 year), Murphy (hasn't shown yet he can hold down an NHL spot). I shudder to think of the ramifications of that.

If Slavin, Pesce, and Hanifin all show they are for real this coming season and Fleury and McKeown show promise in the AHL/NHL, then yeah, I could see the Canes possibly looking at it. If all these guys pan out, it's not realistic to assume they can keep all 6 long term.

 

[Paralyzer008]

He had an extremely high ONSH% last season.

You're likely looking at more of a 10-15 goal scorer.

With our C's? He's hitting 15 minimum.

Canucks fans think he's worth a late 1st or a 2nd + prospect....so late 2nd + prospect probably is the true value.

Think we can get him with our early 3rd + prospect.

 

[Joey Moss]

So how much value can we get out of Carolina if we are willing to drop from 4 to 13?

Faulk + 13 overall for 4th overall plus X?

What is the X?

It would have be very substantial still IMO, which is enough to make them deal a player that could be available but is not even remotely being shopped at all.

Eberle? Don't think I'd add RNH.

 

[LaGu]

Adam Larsson is also big and physical. And he also hasn't had the luxury of being sheltered into the league by Ryan Suter.

Adam Larsson didn't look very good before (or after) being paired with Greene, i.e. the Yakupov for Larsson proposals which were working for many supporters on both sides not that long time ago.

Very few young defensemen are able to hold their own even after some years, playing with veteran/good support is essential. After a while you start removing them slowly and it is about at that time that they become useless in the eyes of many supporters.

Again, Suter's two best seasons in terms of Norris voting finishes was 12/13 and 13/14, the two years he was playing mostly with Brodin. He can be an excellent complement to a top pair guy because he is a very smart and adaptable player. He'll only get better so if you can get him now you go for it. Even if he doesn't develop his offense that much he has good prospects to become a hjalmarsson type shut down D man who let's our top pair play a bit easier competition.