Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Chris Johnston: "SJS & EDM have re-engaged on Erik Karlsson trade discussions"

[belair]

McDavid has had a catastrophic injury as well that he has recovered from as well that’s game is based off skating too.

McDavid was 23, not 33. Karlsson's heel injury in the Ottawa run is mildly concerning.

 

[McAsuno]

Why is Spector so obsessed with Edmondson?

It's getting...weird.

It's classic Spec. Writers like him always have a hard on for big players.

1) Small speedy forward 5'11 Hagel.
2) Slow ass but big like Lucic.
Spec would choose Lucic.

There's a reason why writers like him don't know shit about hockey nowadays. With Spec, Chychrun isn't the answer, but major back problems and can't move the puck out of their own end in Edmundson is. Imagine having the audacity to say the Oilers should trade their first and Puljujarvi for Edmundson.

f*** off, Spec.

 

[Ibanez]

Why is Spector so obsessed with Edmondson?

It's getting...weird.

Because he’s dumb

Occams Razor says so

 

[McTonyBrar]

At least Nurse isn't slow.

He's just stupid.

Or he is getting over used and your analysis isn't very good.

 

[CycloneSweep]

McDavid was 23, not 33. Karlsson's heel injury in the Ottawa run is mildly concerning.

And Karlsson wasn’t 33 when he was injured either.

It's classic Spec. Writers like him always have a hard on for big players.

1) Small speedy forward 5'11 Hagel.
2) Slow ass but big like Lucic.
Spec would choose Lucic.

There's a reason why writers like him don't know shit about hockey nowadays. With Spec, Chychrun isn't the answer, but major back problems and can't move the puck out of their own end in Edmundson is. Imagine having the audacity to say the Oilers should trade their first and Puljujarvi for Edmundson.

f*** off, Spec.

“Chychrun been injured lately he is worth nothing, even if he is good”
“Edmundson is a bottom pairing guy who can sometimes be better than that and is injured a lot lately, 1st++!”
Good lord he is dumb

 

[McAsuno]

And Karlsson wasn’t 33 when he was injured either.


“Chychrun been injured lately he is worth nothing, even if he is good”
“Edmundson is a bottom pairing guy who can sometimes be better than that and is injured a lot lately, 1st++!”
Good lord he is dumb

A gif that perfectly represents Mark Spector.
Once Puljujarvi's gone, the jackass will find a new yearly young scapegoat to try to run out of town.
Largest weasel in the Oilers media.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

Okay here goes another shot:

SJS retain 26% on Karlsson’s full cap hit. This brings contract from $11.5M AAV to $8.5M.

EDM send 2023 1st round pick, Schaefer,
Barrie, Foegele and 2024 2nd to SJS

ARI retain 18% on Karlsson’s 8.5M AAV contract. This brings contract down to $7M AAV.

EDM send 2024 1st round pick, Puljujarvi to ARI
SJS send 2024 3rd round pick to ARI

Overall -

Edmonton receives: Karlsson at $7M AAV and is on the hook for ~$25M in real dollars
Edmonton gives: 2023 & 2024 1st, 2024 2nd, Foegele, Barrie, Schaefer
——

San Jose receives: EDM 2023 1st, EDM 2024 2nd, Schaefer, Barrie, Foegele
San Jose gives: 2024 3rd, Karlsson

San Jose retains $3M/year in cap hit and eats $10M of Karlsson’s remaining $40M owed.

——

Arizona receives: EDM 2024 1st, SJS 2024 3rd, Puljujarvi

Arizona retains $1.5M/year in cap hit and eats $5.4M of Karlsson’s remaining $30M owed.

 

[McIce Whole]

Asking price is steep. But f***, if Sharks retain 4 mill, I’m all for it. Wonder if we can snag a couple other pieces back (if it works cap wise) such as Bonino or Sturm?

Nurse - Karlsson
Broberg - Ceci
Kulak - Vinny D

As long as Broberg plays the way he’s capable of and Vinny steps up and can handle being 6th guy without any issues, I’m all for it.

First time since Pronger. 17 years almost. We would have a true number 1 dmen if we can land Karlsson. And Broberg learning from Karlsson for the next few years…probably the best shot we have at developing a number 1 guy internally.

Get it done, Holland. Don’t blueball this fan base again

 

[Tarus]

Okay here goes another shot:

SJS retain 26% on Karlsson’s full cap hit. This brings contract from $11.5M AAV to $8.5M.

EDM send 2023 1st round pick, Schaefer,
Barrie, Foegele and 2024 2nd to SJS

ARI retain 18% on Karlsson’s 8.5M AAV contract. This brings contract down to $7M AAV.

EDM send 2024 1st round pick, Puljujarvi to ARI
SJS send 2024 3rd round pick to ARI

Overall -

Edmonton receives: Karlsson at $7M AAV and is on the hook for ~$25M in real dollars
Edmonton gives: 2023 & 2024 1st, 2024 2nd, Foegele, Barrie, Schaefer
——

San Jose receives: EDM 2023 1st, EDM 2024 2nd, Schaefer, Barrie, Foegele
San Jose gives: 2024 3rd, Karlsson

San Jose retains $3M/year in cap hit and eats $10M of Karlsson’s remaining $40M owed.

——

Arizona receives: EDM 2024 1st, SJS 2024 3rd, Puljujarvi

Arizona retains $1.5M/year in cap hit and eats $5.4M of Karlsson’s remaining $30M owed.

I really don't see a 3rd team like Arizona retaining money on Karlsson's contract. An expiring contract with virtually no actual money owed like Patrick Kane on a dealline deal is plausible, but 4 years of dead cap space? Even for a 1st round pick, it's not likely. Furthermore, why wouldn't San Jose say "you're giving up an extra 1st round pick to dump another 1.5 mill off the contract to another team? And we have to send them a 3rd rounder to facilitate everything? Just give the pick to us and we'll do it".

18% retained might have been the rumored amount they would be willing to do, but it was likely just the starting point for negotiations, not a hard and fast number. I think everyone expects they'll have to go higher, and honestly; I don't think the Oilers would even be engaging in discussions with SJ if they hadn't already indicated that they were willing to move off that number.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

You’re right- he is the best puck mover that ever lived. He’s racked up all those 5v5 and has always owned all the puck possession metrics. I sure was wrong

Ahh yes the sarcastic reply you always do when you are wrong and have nothing.

 

[McFlyingV]

I will be very disappointed if EK or Chychrun aren't an Oiler by the deadline. I prefer going all in for EK, but both are good options. I have no issue shipping 2 1sts + Barrie + JP/Foegele and a prospect not named Holloway or Broberg. I like Bourgault a lot but would probably part with him. I don't love the idea of including Bouchard in that package unless there's another piece like Meier coming back as a rental.

 

[ThreeOfAPerfectPair]

Okay here goes another shot:

SJS retain 26% on Karlsson’s full cap hit. This brings contract from $11.5M AAV to $8.5M.

EDM send 2023 1st round pick, Schaefer,
Barrie, Foegele and 2024 2nd to SJS

ARI retain 18% on Karlsson’s 8.5M AAV contract. This brings contract down to $7M AAV.

EDM send 2024 1st round pick, Puljujarvi to ARI
SJS send 2024 3rd round pick to ARI

Overall -

Edmonton receives: Karlsson at $7M AAV and is on the hook for ~$25M in real dollars
Edmonton gives: 2023 & 2024 1st, 2024 2nd, Foegele, Barrie, Schaefer
——

San Jose receives: EDM 2023 1st, EDM 2024 2nd, Schaefer, Barrie, Foegele
San Jose gives: 2024 3rd, Karlsson

San Jose retains $3M/year in cap hit and eats $10M of Karlsson’s remaining $40M owed.

——

Arizona receives: EDM 2024 1st, SJS 2024 3rd, Puljujarvi

Arizona retains $1.5M/year in cap hit and eats $5.4M of Karlsson’s remaining $30M owed.

Doubt Arizona will want to have 2/3 retention spots locked up until 27/28.

 

[nexttothemoon]

My attempt at creating a deeper forward group and adding more offense and depth to the D while using nothing but draft picks and secondary prospects as trade capital.


Kane-McD-Hyman
RNH-Drai-Meier
Holloway-Barbashev-Lafferty
Janmark-McLeod-Bjugstad
Kostin

$46.648 million

Chychrun-Ghost
Nurse-Barrie
Kulak-Bouchard
Desharnais

$24.975833 million

Campbell
Skinner

$5.75 million

Assorted dead cap:

$5.062667 million


Total cap for this 22 man roster: $82.4365 million


-Trade Puljujarvi plus picks to the Sharks for Meier@50% retained

-Trade Yamamoto and Foegele plus picks/prospects to Arizona for Chychrun + Ghostibehere@50% retained + Bjugstad (no retention is needed on Chychrun which will keep his cost down slightly)

-Trade a pick to the Blues for Barbashev@50% retained

-Trade Ryan and a pick to Chicago for Lafferty

-Trade Ceci to any team that wants him for future considerations which moves out $3.25 million in cap (add a pick if his contract is negative value).

-Broberg goes down to the AHL until the playoffs for cap purposes.


What's the costs of all the acquisitions above?

An assortment of 1sts/2nds for many future years and any necessary prospects not listed in the lineup above.

Basically 1sts and 2nds for 2023/2024/2025/2026 would all be on the table in whatever combo it took to make the deals. I wouldn't trade any top prospects... only a secondary one like a Schaefer/Bourgault/Petrov (I think I like Petrov the most but obviously some prospect may have to go the other way). I wouldn't trade any of Broberg/Bouchard/Holloway/McLeod.


By the way... that group of 7 dmen in the lineup above currently have 106 even strength points... more than any team currently in the NHL except San Jose who have 119 because of Karlsson and his stratospheric season.

So the Oilers would go from 18th in even strength points for their dmen in the NHL to #2 with the trades above.

Of the forwards added:

Meier 33 even strength points
Barbashev 21 even strength points
Lafferty 15 even strength points (plus 4 shorthanded points)
Bjugstad 21 even strength points (plus 1 shorthanded point)
Total of 90 even strength points

Ryan/Yamamoto/Foegele/Puljujarvi have a grand total of 45 even strength points between them (and 3 shorthanded points).

The 4 forwards added would be DOUBLING the even strength points of the Oiler forwards they are replacing.

The total even strength point by all Oilers forwards currently is 268 which is 10th in the NHL. Pulling out the 4 Oilers players above (Yamo/Foegele/JP/Ryan) and replacing them with (Meier/Barbashev/Lafferty/Bjugstad) would push their EV point totals from forwards to well over 310 (assuming they would have scored at the same pace with the Oilers)... pushing them past #1 Seattle who have 305 pts from their forwards.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Asking price is steep. But f***, if Sharks retain 4 mill, I’m all for it. Wonder if we can snag a couple other pieces back (if it works cap wise) such as Bonino or Sturm?

Nurse - Karlsson
Broberg - Ceci
Kulak - Vinny D

As long as Broberg plays the way he’s capable of and Vinny steps up and can handle being 6th guy without any issues, I’m all for it.

First time since Pronger. 17 years almost. We would have a true number 1 dmen if we can land Karlsson. And Broberg learning from Karlsson for the next few years…probably the best shot we have at developing a number 1 guy internally.

Get it done, Holland. Don’t blueball this fan base again

That's pretty good. Kulak has also been much better lately, and he can step into the 2nd pairing at certain points of the game for Broberg; young Dmen are going to have off nights, but Kulak has proven he can handle the role for stretches. Karlsson is a gamble, but with how big he can pay off, if you can make it happen in any reasonable way you get it done.

 

[Fourier]

At the asks being thrown around for pieces like Karlsson and Chychrun, IMO the list of defensemen who are unavailable to us would be very, very short.

The big take away for me is that Holland sees a need for a top pairing RD and may be determined to acquire one.

It would be foolish to overlook the risk of his injury history though. He's had a lacerated Achilles injury in his past, he's had groin surgery and he's had his entire foot essentially rebuilt. For a guy whose game revolves a lot around his ability to skate, there's a potential for his game to drop off drastically.

Karlsson is a risk. No doubt about that. But the reward could be exceptional. He's not as mobile as he once was but he is still brilliant with the puck and is extremely creative. I would play him with Broberg and leave the Nurse Ceci pairing alone. Tell Broberg that his job right now is to play a simple game. Let Karlsson have the puck and watch and learn. Honestly, just cutting down Nurse's minutes would do wonders for him I believe.

Even at the asking price I don't think you make many true first pairing defensemen available at an affordable cap hit. Nashville might move Josi for the top end of some of the offers for Karlsson if they go rebuild but they are not taking any retention. But would Josi want out of Nashville? Most of the best defensemen also come with NTC and NMC's that are problematic for the Oilers. We are only assuming that Karlsson want out but we don't even know if he would accept going to the Oilers for sure.

All the top end guys who have moved recently have pretty much picked their location as pending UFA's. There was the Subban/Weber trade as the possible exception.

You mention Ekblad and Parayko. You might get Ekblad if you offered the package for Karlsson, not for the package for Chychrun. Parayko is just not in the same stratosphere as a Karlsson when he is playing well. In fact, I'd actually be quite uneasy about Parayko. He has never really had his best success as a top line guy. His most effective years were when he was playing behind AP. Now he has a back issue that is very concerning for a big guy that you want to be your defensive anchor. Not that I would not take a chance on him. But the price would have to be right.

In the end though the real problem is that most teams realize that it is much harder to find a real #1 defenseman than almost anything else. The chances that you get one out of a pick in the second half of teh first is very slim. So when they have one they won't give him up easily.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I will be very disappointed if EK or Chychrun aren't an Oiler by the deadline. I prefer going all in for EK, but both are good options. I have no issue shipping 2 1sts + Barrie + JP/Foegele and a prospect not named Holloway or Broberg. I like Bourgault a lot but would probably part with him. I don't love the idea of including Bouchard in that package unless there's another piece like Meier coming back as a rental.

For me, only Broberg is untouchable. Holloway only if the other team gives him a ton of value in a trade. Same goes for Bouchard: I'm okay trading him for EK or Chychrun as long as he's the main asset, and we're not overpaying a ton, because I do think he's going to get it together and be a really good 2nd pairing Dman for years to come. But EK or Chychrun move the needle much more for us this season and the next couple, which is our window.

It would suck to have to give up years of Bouchard, on probably a great contract after this season, for 2.5 years of Chychrun. It's going to look really bad in a few years if we don't win anything. But this is what happens in bidding wars, and you have to take chances.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

There was a lot of posts today so I'm not sure if it was already mentioned, but apparently ARI is willing to retain salary on Chychrun, his contract is already a value contract, I assume this would further elevate the cost which is already very substantial, but obviously we could be that touch stronger with a little more cap space.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

There was a lot of posts today so I'm not sure if it was already mentioned, but apparently ARI is willing to retain salary on Chychrun, his contract is already a value contract, I assume this would further elevate the cost which is already very substantial, but obviously we could be that touch stronger with a little more cap space.

Apparently it doesn't elevate the cost. It was said that it might be their only path to getting their asking price and they realize that.

I will be very disappointed if EK or Chychrun aren't an Oiler by the deadline. I prefer going all in for EK, but both are good options. I have no issue shipping 2 1sts + Barrie + JP/Foegele and a prospect not named Holloway or Broberg. I like Bourgault a lot but would probably part with him. I don't love the idea of including Bouchard in that package unless there's another piece like Meier coming back as a rental.

These aren't just the only impact dmen out there, but they're both multi year rentals (3 or 5 years).

One of them has to be in an Oilers Jersey by March 4

 

[Broberg Speed]

There was a lot of posts today so I'm not sure if it was already mentioned, but apparently ARI is willing to retain salary on Chychrun, his contract is already a value contract, I assume this would further elevate the cost which is already very substantial, but obviously we could be that touch stronger with a little more cap space.

Very odd the Coyotes aren't letting Chychrun play until a trade is facilitated this far from the deadline. Are they worried he's going to get injured or is he already banged up and Arizona is precariously trying to avoid a potential media meltdown?

Due diligence must be adhered on the player. Get all the medical reports and have a stipulation that the trade is only confirmed after team doctors thoroughly examine the player.

Only move on Chychrun if the price comes down. Chychrun will not play on the first pairing nor should he be expected to. He's just not that player on a elite team, plain and simple. Learn it, know it, live it.

The ask is ridiculous unless they are retaining, adding a useful piece like Bjugstad, and taking back a significant player salary in return.

Wait until the deadline. I don't think Arizona is dealing in good faith. Let them sit Chychrun right up until March 3, and see if they come to reason. What happens if no one meets their trade criteria, no one has thus far, and the deadline passess, will they start playing Chychrun like nothing happened? The franchise's reputation takes a massive hit. It goes from already pretty damn bad to outright appalling.

I would love to add Karlsson. Even though he is older than Chychrun, Karlsson is so much more dynamic.

It's 100% on San Jose if they can facilitate a deal. Edmonton is in it to win it and not give away all their draft picks and prospect capital while placing themselves 5 levels deeper into cap hell.

If trading for a player, no matter how good that player is, moves you further from your goal of winning a championship, you don't make that deal just because the fanbase is passionate.

For me, only Broberg is untouchable. Holloway only if the other team gives him a ton of value in a trade. Same goes for Bouchard: I'm okay trading him for EK or Chychrun as long as he's the main asset, and we're not overpaying a ton, because I do think he's going to get it together and be a really good 2nd pairing Dman for years to come. But EK or Chychrun move the needle much more for us this season and the next couple, which is our window.

It would suck to have to give up years of Bouchard, on probably a great contract after this season, for 2.5 years of Chychrun. It's going to look really bad in a few years if we don't win anything. But this is what happens in bidding wars, and you have to take chances.

I finally found the perfect post. El Dorado.

 

[CookiesAndMilk]

My attempt at creating a deeper forward group and adding more offense and depth to the D while using nothing but draft picks and secondary prospects as trade capital.


Kane-McD-Hyman
RNH-Drai-Meier
Holloway-Barbashev-Lafferty
Janmark-McLeod-Bjugstad
Kostin

$46.648 million

Chychrun-Ghost
Nurse-Barrie
Kulak-Bouchard
Desharnais

$24.975833 million

Campbell
Skinner

$5.75 million

Assorted dead cap:

$5.062667 million


Total cap for this 22 man roster: $82.4365 million


-Trade Puljujarvi plus picks to the Sharks for Meier@50% retained

-Trade Yamamoto and Foegele plus picks/prospects to Arizona for Chychrun + Ghostibehere@50% retained + Bjugstad (no retention is needed on Chychrun which will keep his cost down slightly)

-Trade a pick to the Blues for Barbashev@50% retained

-Trade Ryan and a pick to Chicago for Lafferty

-Trade Ceci to any team that wants him for future considerations which moves out $3.25 million in cap (add a pick if his contract is negative value).

-Broberg goes down to the AHL until the playoffs for cap purposes.


What's the costs of all the acquisitions above?

An assortment of 1sts/2nds for many future years and any necessary prospects not listed in the lineup above.

Basically 1sts and 2nds for 2023/2024/2025/2026 would all be on the table in whatever combo it took to make the deals. I wouldn't trade any top prospects... only a secondary one like a Schaefer/Bourgault/Petrov (I think I like Petrov the most but obviously some prospect may have to go the other way). I wouldn't trade any of Broberg/Bouchard/Holloway/McLeod.


By the way... that group of 7 dmen in the lineup above currently have 106 even strength points... more than any team currently in the NHL except San Jose who have 119 because of Karlsson and his stratospheric season.

So the Oilers would go from 18th in even strength points for their dmen in the NHL to #2 with the trades above.

Of the forwards added:

Meier 33 even strength points
Barbashev 21 even strength points
Lafferty 15 even strength points (plus 4 shorthanded points)
Bjugstad 21 even strength points (plus 1 shorthanded point)
Total of 90 even strength points

Ryan/Yamamoto/Foegele/Puljujarvi have a grand total of 45 even strength points between them (and 3 shorthanded points).

The 4 forwards added would be DOUBLING the even strength points of the Oiler forwards they are replacing.

The total even strength point by all Oilers forwards currently is 268 which is 10th in the NHL. Pulling out the 4 Oilers players above (Yamo/Foegele/JP/Ryan) and replacing them with (Meier/Barbashev/Lafferty/Bjugstad) would push their EV point totals from forwards to well over 310 (assuming they would have scored at the same pace with the Oilers)... pushing them past #1 Seattle who have 305 pts from their forwards.

Lol Ghost, Barrie, Bouchard at RD.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

I really don't see a 3rd team like Arizona retaining money on Karlsson's contract. An expiring contract with virtually no actual money owed like Patrick Kane on a dealline deal is plausible, but 4 years of dead cap space? Even for a 1st round pick, it's not likely. Furthermore, why wouldn't San Jose say "you're giving up an extra 1st round pick to dump another 1.5 mill off the contract to another team? And we have to send them a 3rd rounder to facilitate everything? Just give the pick to us and we'll do it".

18% retained might have been the rumored amount they would be willing to do, but it was likely just the starting point for negotiations, not a hard and fast number. I think everyone expects they'll have to go higher, and honestly; I don't think the Oilers would even be engaging in discussions with SJ if they hadn't already indicated that they were willing to move off that number.

Doubt Arizona will want to have 2/3 retention spots locked up until 27/28.

I am going off the assumption that they are okay with retention, considering they seem willing to do that for Chychrun, and they essentially took on dead money in the Kassian deal from us as well.

Kassian had 2 years left at $3.2M and fetched (essentially) a 2nd and 3rd. That was also the cost of taking on $5.8M in real money.

In the case above, Arizona is just eating $1.5M in cap hit for 4 years and $5.4M in real dollars (less money overall). For that, they receive a 1st plus. That should be plenty of incentive to want to get a deal done, particularly for a team that doesn’t want a high payroll for its players but still needs to reach the cap floor.

 

[LaGu]

Karlsson is a risk. No doubt about that. But the reward could be exceptional. He's not as mobile as he once was but he is still brilliant with the puck and is extremely creative. I would play him with Broberg and leave the Nurse Ceci pairing alone. Tell Broberg that his job right now is to play a simple game. Let Karlsson have the puck and watch and learn. Honestly, just cutting down Nurse's minutes would do wonders for him I believe.

Even at the asking price I don't think you make many true first pairing defensemen available at an affordable cap hit. Nashville might move Josi for the top end of some of the offers for Karlsson if they go rebuild but they are not taking any retention. But would Josi want out of Nashville? Most of the best defensemen also come with NTC and NMC's that are problematic for the Oilers. We are only assuming that Karlsson want out but we don't even know if he would accept going to the Oilers for sure.

All the top end guys who have moved recently have pretty much picked their location as pending UFA's. There was the Subban/Weber trade as the possible exception.

You mention Ekblad and Parayko. You might get Ekblad if you offered the package for Karlsson, not for the package for Chychrun. Parayko is just not in the same stratosphere as a Karlsson when he is playing well. In fact, I'd actually be quite uneasy about Parayko. He has never really had his best success as a top line guy. His most effective years were when he was playing behind AP. Now he has a back issue that is very concerning for a big guy that you want to be your defensive anchor. Not that I would not take a chance on him. But the price would have to be right.

In the end though the real problem is that most teams realize that it is much harder to find a real #1 defenseman than almost anything else. The chances that you get one out of a pick in the second half of teh first is very slim. So when they have one they won't give him up easily.

I came to post this with my monthly message

Karlsson normally does not need a stellar partner, he has worked very well in the past with young players and/or 2nd/3rd pair-level Ds. Broberg or Kulak would definitely be my choice, leaving Nurse with Ceci on a regular basis.

Would be pretty cool if the Oilers land Karlsson.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Lol Ghost, Barrie, Bouchard at RD.

Why not complete the silliness by adding Chychrun as your #1 LD? Then play the Benny Hill theme during broadcasts and forego the play-by-play altogether.

 

[McJadeddog]

And Karlsson wasn’t 33 when he was injured either.


“Chychrun been injured lately he is worth nothing, even if he is good”
“Edmundson is a bottom pairing guy who can sometimes be better than that and is injured a lot lately, 1st++!”
Good lord he is dumb

He really is. I don't like calling out people that I don't know, but wow Spec is something else a lot of times. I actually think it has to be an act of some sort, nobody is that dumb and still maintains a high level job. I refuse to believe that is possible. He must make stupid comments for the clicks and Sportsnet rewards him for the traffic. It's the only explanation I really have.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Who will be waived today