tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
Good observation about Chara's injuries. I had forgotten them but indeed he appeared to be playing one-armed at times.
Good summary of Chara's regular season performance.
At one point, Chara had a reputation as a poor playoff performer. iMO, much of his poor performance was because he played through injuries. In 2006, he broke his hand on Eric Cairns' face with a month to go in the regular season. He came back before the playoffs, but had some trouble handling the puck still. In 2008, he injured his shoulder with a month to go in the season. It visibly hampered him in the playoffs, and he had surgery for a torn labrum after the season.
2011 obviously gave a major boost playoff reputation.
Chara's superior PP performance in 2008-09 as compared to later seasons may have something to do with 2008-09 having been Marc Savard's last full season. Boston has missed Savard on the power play, as they haven't really had anyone to replace him as the main playmaker. Chara is a complementary player on the PP, he needs someone else to be the quarterback/playmaker.
Looks good for Laperriere this time, yet I get the feeling he still doesn't get enough recognition for his record. Even though Canadiens1958 (one who might know) stated J.C. Tremblay was not on the same level as Laperriere, Tremblay finished ahead of him in the voting.
It should be noted that Laperriere was most likely the mentor for Savard, Lapointe & Robinson. Considering he was an asistant coach in the NHL for 22 years (mostly with Montreal) I would guess he was mainly a teacher for young defensemen.
Once again, when he played at the same time as Savard (7 seasons) their numbers were very similar, with perhaps a slight edge to Laperriere.
Also should be noted that between 1969-75, Bobby Orr led the league in +/- except for the year Laperriere won (1973).
And yes, I am shamelessly campaigning for Laperriere.
I have read a lot of articles from the period over the past year, and you can find references to four players being called the "best player in the world." Frank McGee, the all-round center for the Ottawa Silver Seven. Tommy Phillips, the lightning-fast two-way left wing who played in western Ontario. Russell Bowie, the amateur rover/center who was the best goal scorer of the era. And Hod Stuart, the all-round defenseman.
So when you say Stuart was arguably the best player in the world, you are really saying he was one of the best 4 overall players in the world in an era where there wasn't much depth of talent.
Here's Dreakmur's profile of Hod Stuart: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=30991681&postcount=61. It contains some fluff as do most ATD profiles (Hod's bother Bruce thought Hod was the best player in the world... yeah, unbiased source there). But the newspaper clippings in the second half of the profile give a great account of his style of play and how highly regarded he was. My favorite is definitely this one from 1905: "Hod Stuart has been barred from the International Hockey League, the western contingent claiming he won too many championships and that he is too rough. He is one of the best hockey players on this continent."
The difference though, is that Hod Stuart did his thing for twice as long as both McGee and Phillips. From 1903-06 Frank McGee was his competition, and from 1904-08, Tommy Phillips was. That's only 4 years each. Hod Stuart was great from 1900-07, which is 8 years.
Comparing those guys to Stuart is like comparing Lemieux to Gretzky. If you take a small sample size, they appear equal(ish), but if you look at the whole picture, it's not close. Hod Stuart may have only been equal to those guys, but he was that good for twice as long.
Bowie, in the other hand, was among the best for about the same amount of time as Stuart. That's probably why I have Bowie way ahead of the other two anyway...
Bruce Stuart's quite was in there mainly because it ws another reference to Hod's speed
Yeah, I like all the toughness quotes. People seem to think he was soft for some reason.
It could very well be that Hod really was a generational talent and it could also be true that the competition really was very poor or a combination of both.
Also since I'm a huge career guy I'm not sure what to make of Hod's career since he passed away at 28 compared to Moose Johnson playing for 17 years at a pretty high level as well. Hod has the much better peak for sure but I'm only going to look at his actual career.
Was he really considered among the best for 00-07 as was part of that referenced after his death?
If Montreal scores in OT of game 7 off a horrible giveaway by Chara right in front of his own net (which did happen), he'd still have that rep.
2011 obviously gave a major boost playoff reputation.
Good observation about Chara's injuries. I had forgotten them but indeed he appeared to be playing one-armed at times.
I couldn't find many quotes from 1898-1903, so it's tough to tell exactly how he was viewed in that time.
It's a guess based on statistics. He scored 13 goals in 25 games over that time, which includes a top-10 and a near-top-10 in league scoring.
Add 1,000,000 players to the pool. How many are better than Stuart? Likely none.... maybe a couple. That still puts him in the top few.
The guy was an absolute freak. Huge for his era, but not the least bit clumbsy like the vast majority of big men. The guy was the complete package - a perfect hockey player.
Let's get a grip on this "career" thing. I can understand it for guys who only played a couple years, but Hod Stuart played 9 sesons. 8 of those seasons he was considered one of the best in the world.
To compare, Moose Johnson played 13 years as a defenseman (after 4 as a forward). 8 of those seasons he was among the top defensemen in the the world.
(I'm still not 100% sure what Johnson played in the NHA, but it looks like he was on the blueline by that point.)
Who cares?
Except somebody who thinks a 6'9 guy should have a bit more resiliency?
People who want to know the whole story?
On-ice results are what matters, no?
I mean.... Some guys would already be in (or should really have been) had injuries/time missed had be considered positively, like you PURPORTS to do with Chara.
If Montreal scores in OT of game 7 off a horrible giveaway by Chara right in front of his own net (which did happen), he'd still have that rep.
Clearly undeserved, if you asked me.
One crossbar away from being out, and some terrible showups.
I couldn't find many quotes from 1898-1903, so it's tough to tell exactly how he was viewed in that time.
It's a guess based on statistics. He scored 13 goals in 25 games over that time, which includes a top-10 and a near-top-10 in league scoring.
I probably listed Jan Suchy higher than anyone else. Thing is there isn't really much to say in terms of statistics and awards that hasn't been said numerous times. He dominated the European amateur scene during the late 60s and early 70s. The reason I hold him very highly is from what I hear from people who were around back then. Jan Suchy seems to have been idolized nearly as much in Sweden as in Czechoslovakia. Ask people from back then and they'll say Jan Suchy was something else. Never before seen (at least on this side of the pond.) offensive output and skating ability. Tenacious defense and the sacrifice of his body to cover and block shots. I can't recall having seen any list of Czech hockey players that doesn't list Suchy as their top defenseman.
A couple of years ago I spoke to a personal acquaintance of mine who played on the 1968 Swedish Olympic team. He was convinced that he was playing against one of the best players of all time. He claims that he has still not seen a European hockey player who had such poise, elegance and vision on the ice.
Call it a hunch, or gut feeling. But I think that Jan Suchy's game would translate to virtually any era of hockey, anywhere. His career never got back on the same illustrious track after the car crash that he caused. Who knows what might have transcribed had his car, and consequently his career, taken a different path in 1971. I reckon we'd be talking of him in the same sense as we do Fetisov or Lidström. His career may not live up to the title of 'Europe's Bobby Orr'. But the reason for the title is not his career, but his game. I don't often reside to hunches, but in this case, I am going to list Jan Suchy highly. A truly unique player. Now he doesn't deserve a high rank for what he could have been, he deserves to be considered because of what he was. Czechoslovakias greatest defenseman of all time.
Just getting back to this for a second, it's amazing how one single play could alter our perception of a player?
Tim Thomas doesn't bail out Chara in Round 1, and Chara doesn't get a chance to play excellent hockey in the subsequent rounds.
Patrick Houda said:During his 16 seasons in the Czech league, Suchy racked up 162 goals in 562 games, which made him the highest scoring defenseman in Czechoslovakian league history. He won the league title 7 times (1967-72 and 74).
Patrick Houda said:Another interesting tidbit - Suchy was the first European star to be placed under a NHL protected list when the Boston Bruins claimed him as their prospect.
Whatever you think about Chara's 2011 playoffs, his overall playoff record is mixed at best. The important question is how does his playoff/big game record compare to other eligible defencemen?