Round 2, Vote 8 (HOH Top Defensemen)

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Not sure if it makes a difference to anyone, but NHL.com just named Chara their "midseason Norris winner" over Weber and Lidstrom.

 

[begbeee]

Golden Hockey Stick voting for best player in Czechoslovakia existed since 1969

Suchy finished:

1st in 1969 at the age of 25.
1st in 1970
2nd in 1971 to fellow defenseman Frantisek Pospisil (who IMO is a top 60 defenseman of alltime)

Suchy would never finish top 10 in voting again. 1971 was the year of his car accident (not sure if he got in the accident after the season or during the season)

To me, the real question is: How good was Suchy before 1969?

These are his international awards:

IIHF Best Defenseman (1969, 1971)
WC All Star (1968, 1969, 1970, 1971)

So Suchy probably started to peak in 1968.

Here is a profile of Suchy by Patrick Houda: http://www.1972summitseries.com/othersuchy.html



So it would appear that while Suchy's peak probably only lasted 4 years (1968-1971), he was a useful player outside this time. On the other hand, while Suchy was 1st in Czech league scoring in 1969 and 3rd in 1970, those are the only seasons he was in the top 7 in overall scoring. Source: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=639099

It should be noted that Suchy only played on the Czech national team once after 1971 - in 1973. Not sure if that's because he was no longer good enough, or if it was punishment for the car accident.

For anyone wondering if Suchy was considered NHL-worthy:

Commies didnt allow him to participate on WC 1972 due to car accident. He could avoid the jail if he would spy for commies, but he denied. Commies then destroyed his career. He wanted to play until his 50 but retired in 45. After the career he was a truck driver. He smoked from his 13 and also liked to drink. He smoked and drunk beer even during the match.
Noteworthy: he was one of the first if not the first player in Europe who started to block shots by body - by stomach.
Some records: hattrick in 40 seconds (Bill Mosienko record is 24 IIRC); 9 points (5+4) against Ceske Budejovice 13:4 while slightly drunk

That's everything what was I able to find on czech internet in some interviews.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Moose Johnson

We should take the PCHA seriously

The Pacific Coast Hockey Association (PCHA) was a professional men's ice hockey league in western Canada and the western United States, which operated from 1911 to 1924 when it then merged with the Western Canada Hockey League (WCHL). The PCHA was considered to be a 'major' league of ice hockey and was important in the development of the sport of professional ice hockey through its innovations.

The league was started by the Patrick family, professional hockey players from Montreal, building new arenas in Vancouver and Victoria, British Columbia. After a few years of play, the league was accepted by the Stanley Cup trustees as being of a high enough standard that teams from its league were accepted for Stanley Cup challenges. Starting in 1915, the league entered into an agreement where the Stanley Cup was to be contested between the National Hockey Association and the PCHA after the regular seasons were finished. The league struggled to make money, and various teams moved into different cities in an attempt to be successful financially. Eventually, the league, to survive, merged with the WCHL in 1924.

The WCHL would fold in 1926, ushering in the era when the NHL had all the best talent in North America. But for a number of years, the PCHA was the NHL's main rival.

After the Portland Rosebuds, an American-based team, joined the PCHA in 1914, the Stanley Cup trustees issued a statement that the Cup was no longer for the best team in Canada, but now for the best team in the world.

The PCHA would would win Stanley Cups in 1915 (Vancouver Millionaires) and 1917 (Seattle Metropolitans), beating the NHA winning Ottawa Senators and Montreal Canadians in the finals.

Moose Johnson was the best defenseman in PCHA History

Referree Mike Ion hand-picked all-star teams for the length of the PCHA's existence. I believe he referreed every PCHA game, but I'm not sure, so if you have to rely on the opinion of only one guy, he was the guy you wanted to rely on. These are the 1st Team PCHA All-Star Teams for defense:

1911-12: Moose Johnson, Frank Patrick
1912-13: Moose Johnson, Lester Patrick
1913-14: Moose Johnson, Frank Patrick
1914-15: Moose Johnson, Lester Patrick
1915-16: Moose Johnson, Lester Patrick.
1916-17: Moose Johnson, Lester Patrick
1917-18: Moose Johnson, Bobby Rowe
1918-19: Moose Johnson, Bobby Rowe
1919-20: Art Duncan, Lloyd Cook
1920-21: Lloyd Cook*
1921-22: Art Duncan, Eddie Oatman
1922-23: Lloyd Cook, Bobby Rowe
1923-24: Art Duncan, Clem Loughlin, Gord Fraser

*Only 1 First Teamer is listed on D. Moose Johnson is credited as a 2nd Teamer along with Clem Loughlin and Wilf Loughlin. This is the only time Johnson was credited with being a second teamer.

The strength of the PCHA seemed to peak while Johnson was the dominant defenseman in the league, as the league won Cups in 1915 and 1917.

Moose Johnson's team was not that successful, however, as he only reached the finals once while starring in the PCHA (in 1916).

Pre-PCHA years.

Johnson won 4 Cups, all of them for the Montreal Wanderers before he joined the PCHA. He won 3 straight as a forward (1906, 1907, 1908) and a 4th after converting to defenseman (1910).

It is generally supposed that Johnson was always a defence player. Actually he was the speedy left wing on a line with Pud Glass, centred by Ernie Russell that swept everything before them for three successive Cup wins. It was not until his seventh year in hockey that he became a regular defence man with Jack Marshall when the Wanderers again won the championship and Stanley Cup.

Style

His poke check made it virtually impossible for forwards to get around him with any success... He was a big man, and he played much longer than the average star player... Perhaps most amazing was that in 1900 he absorbed a 2300 volt shock and lost two fingers on his right hand.

Johnson had incredibly long reach, augmented by the longest stick ever used.

It was while playing in Victoria as a member of the Cougars that he was first called Moose. "As far as I know," he recalled later, "I was the first 'Moose' in sports history. Now there are dozens." He was noted for using the longest stick in hockey and had a 99-inch reach. "The year I quit they buried my stick," said Johnson. "It was the longest stick ever used. In those days there was no size regulations and they couldn't take it from me because it was my livelihood." His final year in the PCHA was with Victoria in 1921-22.

Johnson used a very long stick that enabled him to develop an extraordinary skill at playing the puck rather than the man, although he was by no means backward with his bodychecking. He developed his poke check to such an art that in his last few years with Victoria, Lester Patrick used him frequently at rover to spearhead the defence.

"By the time a forward got around Johnson on defense, the rest was easy for me. They were usually somewhere over by the boards." - Jack Marshall, defense partner (via hfboards poster BM67)

For more flowery quotes see seventieslord's profile but I tried to pull out what I thought were most important.

An article after Moose retired in 1922 after 21 years of hockey

An article on Moose Johnson's retirement (via Sturminator)

In the hockey world "Moose" Johnson for years has occupied much the same position as did Larry Lajoie in baseball. For 21 years Johnson has been the idol of the hockey fans. He has been cheered and jeered, with emphasis on the cheers. No matter what the reception he always played remarkable hockey.

Big and husky, he carried fear into the hearts of the opposing players when he took the puck down the ice. Criticism from the fan always brought out the best that was in him. Fighting mad he would take chances that meant the constant flirting with serious injury. His nose dives in an effort to beat some player to the puck, and his "poke check", in which he took a big chance of being slashed by opponents' skates, always provided a big thrill.

Johnson began playing in the east in 1901. His long reach, great speed, and powerful build soon attracted much attention. For years, he starred with the Montreal Wanderers, the 1906 world champions, and for six years either holder or runner-up for the Stanley Cup, hockey's most prized trophy.

Johnson has the longest reach of any professional hockey player. He accentuates this with the longest stick used in the game, making him effective as far as 91 inches from the puck. When the cheers of the home fans turned to jeers Johnson decided he was through. In his passing hockey loses a player who has done much to popularize the sport.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Ernie "Moose" Johnson gets a lot of mileage out of the fact that the author of the Trail of the Stanley Cup selected him as one of his two all-stars of the pre-consolidation era.

Not quite the same thing, but at the end of Vol. 1 of The Trail of the Stanley Cup the author, Charles L. Coleman, selected his all-star team for 1893-1926.

The nominees were:

G: Clint Benedict, Harry Holmes, Georges Vezina, and Hugh Lehman

He selected Clint Benedict.

D: Harry Cameron, Sprague Cleghorn, Eddie Gerard, and Ernie Johnson

He selected Sprague Cleghorn and Ernie Johnson.

Rover: Newsy Lalonde, Mickey MacKay, and Fred Taylor

He selected Newsy Lalonde.

F: Russell Bowie, Harry Broadbent, Jack Darragh, Cy Denneny, Frank Foyston, Harry Hyland, Joe Malone, Frank Nighbor, Didier Pitre, Gordon Roberts, and Ernie Russell

He selected Russell Bowie, Joe Malone and Frank Nighbor.

Of note is that he doesn't list George Boucher or Hod Stuart as either of his top 4.

However, look at the other names on the list - I believe that other than Russell Bowie, the list is composed entirely of players who peaked after World War 2. So maybe that shouldnt' be held against Hod (on the other hand, Harry Cameron vs. George Boucher could be an interesting debate)

I know Lester Patrick agreed with the MacLean's article posted upthread that Hod Stuart was better than Moose Johnson (or Eddie Gerard for that matter).

For that matter, has anyone seen anyone but Coleman who preferred Moose Johnson over either Eddie Gerard or Hod Stuart? I have a lot of respect for Coleman's opinion, but he is only one man.

A big part of the case for Eddie Gerard was the number of quotes by various sources that he was the best (or one of the best two) defensemen of his day. If such quotes exist for Moose Johnson, I haven't seen them (but I haven't seen then for Georges Boucher either, so that's certainly not an argument for Boucher over Johnson - I definitely prefer Johnson there).

I went into the round thinking Moose might be my #1, but I'm strongly leaning towards ranking Hod Stuart over Moose Johnson (and both above George Boucher). Thoughts?

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Commies didnt allow him to participate on WC 1972 due to car accident. He could avoid the jail if he would spy for commies, but he denied. Commies then destroyed his career. He wanted to play until his 50 but retired in 45. After the career he was a truck driver. He smoked from his 13 and also liked to drink. He smoked and drunk beer even during the match.
Noteworthy: he was one of the first if not the first player in Europe who started to block shots by body - by stomach.
Some records: hattrick in 40 seconds (Bill Mosienko record is 24 IIRC); 9 points (5+4) against Ceske Budejovice 13:4 while slightly drunk

That's everything what was I able to find on czech internet in some interviews.

Man, imagine how good Suchy would have been if he wasn't a drunk. For starters, his peak wouldn't have abruptly ended in a car accident in 1971.

Suchy vs. Kasatonov could be an interesting comparison. Kasatonov obviously kills Suchy in longevity as an elite player (10 or so years to 4). Suchy probably peaked higher though - he was the dominant European defenseman for several years (better than any Soviet defenseman for sure) only a year or two before the 1972 Summit Series.

 

[overpass]

Ernie "Moose" Johnson gets a lot of mileage out of the fact that the author of the Trail of the Stanley Cup selected him as one of his two all-stars of the pre-consolidation era.



Of note is that he doesn't list George Boucher or Hod Stuart as either of his top 4.

However, look at the other names on the list - I believe that other than Russell Bowie, the list is composed entirely of players who peaked after World War 2. So maybe that shouldnt' be held against Hod (on the other hand, Harry Cameron vs. George Boucher could be an interesting debate)

I know Lester Patrick agreed with the MacLean's article posted upthread that Hod Stuart was better than Moose Johnson (or Eddie Gerard for that matter).

For that matter, has anyone seen anyone but Coleman who preferred Moose Johnson over either Eddie Gerard or Hod Stuart? I have a lot of respect for Coleman's opinion, but he is only one man.

A big part of the case for Eddie Gerard was the number of quotes by various sources that he was the best (or one of the best two) defensemen of his day. If such quotes exist for Moose Johnson, I haven't seen them (but I haven't seen then for Georges Boucher either, so that's certainly not an argument for Boucher over Johnson - I definitely prefer Johnson there).

I went into the round thinking Moose might be my #1, but I'm strongly leaning towards ranking Hod Stuart over Moose Johnson (and both above George Boucher). Thoughts?

I've also wondered why Moose Johnson wasn't named on more all-time teams at defence, or named in articles such as the Maclean's all-time article.

Part of the reason may be that, like you said, he only once played in the Stanley Cup finals while he was a star defenceman in the PCHA.

Eddie Gerard, Harry Cameron, Joe Simpson, and George Boucher all starred in Stanley Cup finals with the whole hockey world watching. After Johnson left for the West Coast, most of his games were played out of the spotlight. While Mickey Ion seems to have appreciated his play, maybe he just didn't have the big-stage performances to be recognized by most fans.

 

[Dreakmur]

Of note is that he doesn't list George Boucher or Hod Stuart as either of his top 4.

To be fair, Hod Stuart only played a few seasons in the league coverd in that set of books, so it's not surprising that he wasn't considered.

 

[MXD]

a) Who is considering injuries positively? All anyone did was point out that Chara was literally playing one-handed in a couple of playoffs.

b) You're saying we should ignore reasons that players missed time? Really? Carl Brewer's missed seasons are equal to Jack Stewart's missed season are equal to Bobby Orr's missed seasons, no questions asked?

c) Is this really about Chara, or about someone you think should have been in by now?

a) It depends. If a player gets something IN SPITE of injuries, injuries should be factored in positively to a certain extent. I mean... Dickie Moore being the best scorer in the playoffs with a broken hand, as far playing is concerned, is neutral (though it's a plus in the intangibles), but Mike Karakas being considered the best playoff performer inspite of missing two games should probably be considered a plus, as far as winning the award is concerned, because he won it in spite of actually MISSING games.

Two examples somewhat irrelevant in the current thread, but those are the best I could come up with.

b) Missed years shouldn't be considered evenly (at least, I haven't did so). We should be lenient toward years missed to the war (especially considering there was still hockey and that caliber was somewhat lower), and, to a certain extent, work stoppage (the extent is that, with 30 teams and 720 players, it's a little harder to speculate...)

c) Your call.

Just getting back to this for a second, it's amazing how one single play could alter our perception of a player?

Tim Thomas doesn't bail out Chara in Round 1, and Chara doesn't get a chance to play excellent hockey in the subsequent rounds.

(If Steve Smith didn't put the puck into his own goal in 1986, would the Oilers have won 5 Cups in a row? Would anyone argue against Gretzky as the best player of all time if that happened?)



Chara sure turned in it around in later rounds though, right? Ended up leading the playoffs in plus minus, despite having all the tough defensive assignments. I thought he absolutely dominated the finals whenever he was on the ice, though granted, the Sedins aren't exactly playoff warriors themselves.

1st paragraph : It's not a single play. Chara's playoff resume is, as a whole, really underwhelming, and if you disconsider 2011, EXTREMELY underwhelming, and I'm being polite here.

2nd paragraph : There are "what ifs" that are probably even worse than this one in regards to Chara.

3rd paragraph : Well, it's already split between him and Orr, and regardless of this, the Oilers don't necessarily win the Cup either. And frankly, considering Gretzky's total numbers, it doesn't change a thing, because Gretzky was (... probably) playing good hockey in those playoffs.

4th paragraph : Chara did play great hockey, starting from the 2nd round. The main problem with Chara is that he had quite a few years of general playoff suckage to compensate and one very (very) good 3 round stretch doesn't exactly make him, all of a sudden, a good playoff performer. I mean, if we're only to consider his career for one year, we're better leaving him out already...

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Man, imagine how good Suchy would have been if he wasn't a drunk. For starters, his peak wouldn't have abruptly ended in a car accident in 1971.

Suchy vs. Kasatonov could be an interesting comparison. Kasatonov obviously kills Suchy in longevity as an elite player (10 or so years to 4). Suchy probably peaked higher though - he was the dominant European defenseman for several years (better than any Soviet defenseman for sure) only a year or two before the 1972 Summit Series.

Makes you wonder about the caliber of play at the time if a guy could dominate while drinking & smoking during the game.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Makes you wonder about the caliber of play at the time if a guy could dominate while drinking & smoking during the game.

My take on the Czech league at the time is that they at least one powerhouse team (maybe a few) and a bunch of doormats. I think it's fair to say that the World Championships of the early 70s were played at a pretty high level, though. They did have the USSR in them, after all, and we know what the USSR did in 1972. And Suchy was the dominant defenseman in the World Championships from 1969-1971 or perhaps even 1968-1971.

It's hard to know what to make of that one quote without knowing what game that was. Was it an exhibition game? I think you'd be very naive to think that an NHL player never played an exhibition game mildly drunk (or on other things if it's the 1970s we are talking about).

 

[tarheelhockey]

Didn't Stuart and Moose play on the same Wanderers team at one point?

Can anybody here read French well enough to find first-hand accounts of those games?

 

[tarheelhockey]

I think you'd be very naive to think that an NHL player never played an exhibition game mildly drunk (or on other things if it's the 1970s we are talking about).

For that matter we know for a fact that Theo Fleury played drunk during his stardom.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Didn't Stuart and Moose play on the same Wanderers team at one point?

Can anybody here read French well enough to find first-hand accounts of those games?

They played together in 1906-07, Stuart's last season before he drowned. The Wanderers won the Cup in 1906, 1907, 1908 and 1910 so Stuart doesn't appear to have been key to the team. Moose Johnson was still a forward for the 3 Cups in a row.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Just realized 1907 was still in the Cup Challenge era. Wanderers owned the Cup heading into 1907. The Kenora Thistles won the Cup from Montreal in January in a major upset. In March, Montreal won it back.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Moose Johnson was still a forward for the 3 Cups in a row.

Drat.

 

[Dreakmur]

Didn't Stuart and Moose play on the same Wanderers team at one point?

They did for one season - 1907. Moose Johnson was a forward at that time.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

So it actually wasn't "3 Cups in a row" - it was "his team held the Cup for parts of those 3 years."

There weren't proper playoffs for the Cup until 1914, when the PCHA champion met the NHA champion.

 

[Dreakmur]

Just realized 1907 was still In the Cup Cup challenge era. Wanderers owned the Cup heading into 1907. The Kenora Thistles won the Cup from Montreal in January in a major upset. In March, Montreal won it back.

I'm pretty sure Kenora took the Cup with Stuart badly injured. He played 1/2 of one game if I remember right. They won it back with Stuart back in action.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

My take on the Czech league at the time is that they at least one powerhouse team (maybe a few) and a bunch of doormats. I think it's fair to say that the World Championships of the early 70s were played at a pretty high level, though. They did have the USSR in them, after all, and we know what the USSR did in 1972. And Suchy was the dominant defenseman in the World Championships from 1969-1971 or perhaps even 1968-1971.

It's hard to know what to make of that one quote without knowing what game that was. Was it an exhibition game? I think you'd be very naive to think that an NHL player never played an exhibition game mildly drunk (or on other things if it's the 1970s we are talking about).

It might also be naive to think that none of the Soviet players were ever "enhanced".

But that's another story.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Makes you wonder about the caliber of play at the time if a guy could dominate while drinking & smoking during the game.

That's what I was thinking but my 1st thought is that his peak is before offensive body checking or when did that actually get implemented in international hockey?

I looked it up and it was in 69 that body checking was allowed but not sure it was very prevalent for the 1st little while. Maybe our Swedish friend could ask his friend on how different the game became in Europe after 69.

I remember seeing a clip a while back between Sweden and Russia around 73 and it was slower than i thought and body checking seemed non existent.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

That's what I was thinking but my 1st thought is that his peak is before offensive body checking or when did that actually get implemented in international hockey?

I looked it up and it was in 69 that body checking was allowed but not sure it was very prevalent for the 1st little while. Maybe our Swedish friend could ask his friend on how different the game became in Europe after 69.

I remember seeing a clip a while back between Sweden and Russia around 73 and it was slower than i thought and body checking seemed non existent.

Both of Suchy's directorate "best defenseman" awards came after the rule change and 3/4 of his World Championship All Star teams happened afterwards.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Both of Suchy's directorate "best defenseman" awards came after the rule change and 3/4 of his World Championship All Star teams happened afterwards.

Yes I checked when the actual rule changed but I'm still wondering how much the actual game play changed in international play in the immediate years afterwards.

It doesn't really matter for me this round as Suchy probably won't be in my top 10 but it would be nice to have as much information as possible for future rounds IMO.

I would like to have that information to get an idea on how he might slot in an "integrated NHL" in that time period.

This is extremely important as 3 other guys in this round were his contemporaries in the NHL at that time.

 

[seventieslord]

Here is my bio on Moose Johnson from ATD2010. To my knowledge, it is the most consolidated source of Moose Johnson info put together.

Johnson was a forward in the CAHL and EC(A)HL. In the NHA's first season he moved back to defense for the Wanderers. He was a defenseman for the vast majority of his time in the PCHA. Note that his bio from The Trail states he was sometimes used as a rover in his later years. I don't think it was that much, because he was still a first all-star defenseman every year through 1919. (the spike in his 1917 numbers makes you wonder, though). Since he missed the ASTs in 1920 and 1922, and was a 2nd teamer in 1921, he was either finally in decline, or his time as a rover was keeping him off the AST as a defenseman.

In my estimation, Johnson's eight 1st AST selections in the PCHA are indicative of being a top-4 defenseman in all of hockey eight times. The top end talent was spread pretty evenly between the PCHA and NHA/NHL and I see no one other than Cleghorn who was a real challenge to his status as #1 or 2 in the 1912-1919 range. (Gerard may/may not have been better but only started playing defense in 1919)

************************

With the 132nd pick in ATD2010, The Regina Pats are proud to select:

Ernie "Moose" Johnson, D/LW

- 5'11, 185 lbs
- Member of the HHOF
- Stanley Cup Champion (1906, 1907, 1908, 1910)
- Stanley Cup Finalist (1916)
- ECAHA 2nd All-Star Team (1907, 1908)
- PCHA 1st All-Star Team (1912, 1913, 1914, 1915, 1916, 1917, 1918, 1919)
- PCHA 2nd All-Star Team (1921)
- 8th, 10th in Scoring in two ECAHA Seasons (1906, 1907)
- Top-5 in Scoring by NHA Defensemen Twice (3rd, 5th)
- Top-3 in Scoring by PCHA Defensemen Four Times (3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd)
- Top-4 In Stanley Cup Scoring Twice (1st-1908, 4th-1907)
- Top-6 in League PIM Five Times (2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 5th, 6th)
- Led all Defensemen in Playoffs in Points with 2 (1916 - including NHA and PCHA and Stanley Cup games)
- Named to the 1893-1926 All-Star Team on Defense by historian and author Charles C. Coleman

... After playing two seasons in the Canadian Amateur Hockey League he signed on with the Montreal Wanderers for the Eastern Canada Amateur Hockey Association's inaugural season of 1905-06 where he finished tenth in scoring with 12 goals in a ten-game schedule. In March 1906 the Wanderers ended the three-year reign of the legendary Silver Seven by defeating Ottawa in a two-game challenge for the Stanley Cup.

Prior to the start of the 1906-07 season the ECAHA ruled that professionals would be allowed to play with the amateurs in the league and the Wanderers were quick to sign Johnson (and others) to lucrative contracts. Those men officially became the first five pro players allowed to compete for the Stanley Cup when the Wanderers successfully won a Cup challenge from New Glasgow in December 1906, prior to the start of the new ECAHA season.

The Wanderers were three games into the 1907 ECAHA season when they hosted the Kenora Thistles in a two-game, total-goals, Stanley Cup challenge series at Montreal. Kenora won both games and took the Cup from the Wanderers by a total score of 12-8, though the Wanderers returned to league play and posted a perfect 10-0-0 season record to qualify to challenge right back.

Johnson continued to impress during the regular season, increasing his goal production to 15 from the previous season and again finishing in the top ten of league scoring. The Wanderers traveled west to Winnipeg in late March 1907 to avenge their earlier loss to the Thistles and reclaimed the Cup in the two-game, total-goal series by a score of 12-8. After the final game a Kenora player cracked Johnson over the head with his stick and cut him for 13 stitches.

Johnson was named to the ECAHA Second All-Star Team in 1908 as he and his Wanderer teammates defended their Stanley Cup title again in January, March, and December of that year, before losing the ECHA title, and thus the Stanley Cup, to Ottawa in 1909. They were champions again in 1910 after winning the newly formed National Hockey Association title from the Ottawa Senators and defended the Cup against Berlin (now Kitchener) on March 12, 1910.

Moose Johnson played one more year for the Wanderers before moving west to play for the New Westminster Royals of the Pacific Coast Hockey Association. He was a perennial all-star in the western league, making the PCHA First All-Star Team in 1912, 1913, 1914, 1915, 1916, 1917, 1918, 1919, and 1921. It was while playing in Victoria as a member of the Cougars that he was first called Moose. "As far as I know," he recalled later, "I was the first 'Moose' in sports history. Now there are dozens." He was noted for using the longest stick in hockey and had a 99-inch reach. "The year I quit they buried my stick," said Johnson. "It was the longest stick ever used. In those days there was no size regulations and they couldn't take it from me because it was my livelihood." His final year in the PCHA was with Victoria in 1921-22.

Johnson was a powerful skater and one of the faster men of his day. Oddly, he played his entire career without any fingers on his right hand! In 1900, he lost the fingers after receiving a 2,300 volt electrical jolt.

**** *******, who played point behind Johnson in Montreal, held the big blond in high regard: "By the time a forward got around Johnson on defense, the rest was easy for me," ******* explained. "They were usually somewhere over by the boards."

Johnson was a regular First-Team All-Star on PCHA referee Mickey Ion's famous hand-picked squads and has been considered the finest all-around rearguard in hockey between 1900 and 1925. Regularly playing with broken jaws, fractured arms, even separated shoulders, Johnson was a gamer in the truest sense.

A long and spectacular career... was the speedy left wing for the Wanderers... In those days there he was described as a six-footer with terrific speed, a bullet shot and indomitable courage... He developed a marvelous poke check and was a very difficult man to get around... developed an extraordinary skill at playing the puck rather than the man, although he was by no means backward with his bodychecking... In his first years in the PCHA he was a hard man to keep in training, and was inclined to draw useless penalties for rough play. However, when he steadied down there was no better defenseman in the estimation of those who saw him perform...He played eleven years in the PCHA, and was chosen as an all-star defenseman ten times. He was never sold or traded, being too valuable an attraction... He earned the nickname "Moose" for the fortitude he displayed in brushing off injuries that would put other players out of action for weeks. During his career he had his nose broken twice, received three bad cuts over his eyes, a piece cut from a thigh, many ankle cuts, and a badly gashed foot. Black eyes, jammed fingers and bruises didn't count. In spite of these injuries, he missed only twelve games in ten years of play... at times he was unpopular for his rough play... He developed the poke check so well to such an art that in his last few years with Victoria, Lester patrick used him frequently at rover to spearhead the defense. In his final years with Victoria he had regained all his popularity and the fans applauded him everywhere. Near the close of the 1921 season a special Johnson night was held in Victoria. He was presented with a trophy from the PCHA inscribed "To Moose Johnson as a token of appreciation of his brilliant career as the greatest defense player in the PCHA during the past ten years."

The most feared pokechecker on hockey's ponds...

A magnificent and extremely popular defenseman for over a decade... certainly not named Moose because of his delicate nature... big, fun-loving, good-natured...

Ultimate Hockey says he lost all his fingers. But was it only two?

His poke check made it virtually impossible for forwards to get around him with any success... He was a big man, and he played much longer than the average star player... Perhaps most amazing was that in 1900 he absorbed a 2300 volt shock and lost two fingers on his right hand.

He had a successful career, despite losing some fingers on his right hand from an accident in his youth.

Johnson was put out for some minutes with a crack on the arm, but aside from this, the two escaped injury. Both played excellent games for their respective teams, Johnson's work being particularly good. He went right into the thick of the fray and took all that was going.

(ECAHA, key game late in the season) There seemed little doubt as to the outcome after play got started. The smooth skating Patrick and Johnson were all over the Senators.

The Kenora team roughed it up considerably and Johnson took a going over from **** *********. However, Ernie was playing hockey and got a brace of goals in spite of the heavy going.

Johnson worked like a trojan, and never let up in following back when Quebec had possession of the puck.

And if you got past the forwards and were able to move into the Wanderers' end, Moose Johnson and his point partner **** ******* were right there, ready to play it however you wanted. Those two wouldn't back down from anyone!

The feature was the play of the two cover points, Taylor and Johnson, generally considered to be the two greatest men to have ever donned skates.

(a list of many pro players and who takes the cake in what categories)
Gordon Roberts has the honor of being the most matter of fact.
Fred Taylor is the most eccentric.
Ernie Johnson gets the diploma as the most sensational.
Arthur Ross is the most selfish player.
Newsy Lalonde is the wickedest of the lot.

Among the contracts which Patrick secured is one calling for the services of Ernie Johnson, the sensational cover-point player of the New Westminster champions...

Ernie Johnson, the Westminster cover-point is a great drawing card, and one of the Vancouver/Westminster games may be transferred to Victoria so that the fans there may have an opportunity to see "The Cyclone" and "The Bull Moose" up against one another.

The schedule opened at Victoria January 2nd... Ernie Johnson was the star of the game, scoring two goals and giving a great display of his steady defence work.

On February 2nd, Johnson was struck above the eye by a puck that inflicted a bad gash. The doctors were afraid the eye had been damaged and wanted Johnson to leave the game. However, Ernie insisted on returning to the game in which he scored two goals. He missed one game but was back in the lineup on February 16th playing with blurred eyesight. The press was now referring to him as The Big Moose.

Ernie Johnson had a piece of flesh gouged out of his thigh by a skate, but The Moose was back in action three days later.

I noticed that the ice near my defense area was stained with blood. I said to my defense partner, "gosh, someone has a bad cut". We finished the half and went to the dressing room where I was surprised to discover blood-covered snow around the top of one of my skates. The club doctor looked at it and said "Well, Moose, you're through for the night." That was a calamitous declaration in those days. "No, I said, just fix me up so I can finish the game." An artery had been cut, but the doctor tied it up, put in a few stitches, and I played straight through the second half. And a long 30 minutes it was, too.

Another casualty was Ernie Johnson who required 14 stitches in a gashed foot. however, he was only off the ice long enough to have the surgical repairs. Two weeks later Johnson received another bad ankle cut but he didn't miss a game.

The game on December 14th was featured by a bulldozing stunt by Ernie Johnson. In a headlong rush he crashed into the boards and a whole section toppled over.

Ernie Johnson continued to play a rough game and drew the ire of president Lester Patrick for his work when the Rosebuds defeated the Mets January 7th.

Moose Johnson was a tower of strength for Portland on both the offense and the defense, and it was his work that broke up the concerted attacks of Les Canadiens not once, but almost every time that he dove after the puck.

In the second period Moose Johnson began to show signs of his famous speed, and with ****** as his chief assistant, he made many daring and spectacular raids on the Canadian cage. Although time after time, these two players passed the defensemen of Les Canadiens, their shots to the cage were blocked by Vezina.

Johnson was stopping most of the attacks of Les Canadiens before they got within hailing distance of the Portland goal...

Brilliant playing by ***** and Moose Johnson put them in the running... Their work was the best of the evening, each of them showing wonderfully clever stick work and passing.

Ernie had a bit of a rough 1917 but despite being an alleged drinker, was the star of the game most nights:

On December 12th 1500 fans were on hand to see Ernie Johnson roughing it up.

Although Johnson was easily the outstanding star of the Portland team, he was making himself very unpopular with his continued rough play.

Johnson was captain of Portland and recognized as the best defenseman in the league. He was many times noted as the star of the game but just as often criticized for his unnecessarily rough play. In a game against Vancouver February 3rd, he specialized in knocking sticks out of players' hands and it was alleged that he was probably drunk. A few days later he was reported as the star of the game, scoring two goals in sensational end-to-end rushes.

Ernie Johnson was again a standout on defense. he still played his rugged game that drew many penalties.

Although Victoria proved to be weak it was not due to lack of effort on the part of Moose Johnson. He was playing better than ever and keeping out of the penalty box.

Ernie Johnson was still starring on defense using his great poke check to advantage. He was playing clean steady hockey in spite of being the target for many butt ends and cross checks.

This was the final year for Ernie Johnson who was now beginning to show signs of slowing up but his great spirit and checking power kept him in the lineup... In a game against Seattle January 4th, Johnson was cut badly over the eye and had to be carried from the ice. Manager Patrick had to take away his skates to keep him from returning to the ice.

 

[Pear Juice]

My take on the Czech league at the time is that they at least one powerhouse team (maybe a few) and a bunch of doormats. I think it's fair to say that the World Championships of the early 70s were played at a pretty high level, though. They did have the USSR in them, after all, and we know what the USSR did in 1972. And Suchy was the dominant defenseman in the World Championships from 1969-1971 or perhaps even 1968-1971.

It's hard to know what to make of that one quote without knowing what game that was. Was it an exhibition game? I think you'd be very naive to think that an NHL player never played an exhibition game mildly drunk (or on other things if it's the 1970s we are talking about).

The Holik brothers and Vladimir Bednar are to my knowledge probably the most well known players from Dukla Jihlava at the time. Martinec played for Pardubice, Nedomansky and Dzurilla for Bratislava, Pospisil was with Kladno, Jiri Holecek was in goal for Kosice, Bubla and Hlinka played for Litvinov.

The Czech league was not at all like the Russian were almost the entire national team was on the same team. The stars of the national team were spread out among many teams. Dukla Jihlava were obviously a dominant team, but it should be pointed out very strongly that we're not dealing with a team like CSKA here. Dukla Jihlava dominated the Czech league in late 60s early 70s by their own merit, not by getting help from the government in drafting an elite team.

 

[steve141]

I am a fan of Sushy, but I can't shake the feeling that he was a big fish in a pretty small pond, whereas Kasatonov was a big fish in a much bigger pond. The quality of play, and the physicallity, was on a completely different level in Soviet in the eighties compared to Czechoslovakia in the 60s.

Sushy might have been flashier, but Kasatonov brought a consistently dominant all-around game every night. There's no doubt in my mind that I'd take a peak Kasatonov over a peak Sushy on my team.