Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXVII - 5 weeks until TDL

[mas0764]

I don’t know if aiming for recent first round picks is reasonable. I think it’s more likely that they try to find a Chandler Stephenson type. I think the young, cost controlled types are just not available, unless we’re trading a piece we don’t want to. We’re going to have to find older guys with specific traits that won’t demand huge salaries and that may produce a more than they previously did in our ecosystem.

I think Nils, Krav, and a first would constitute the "pieces we don't want to," that have enough value to get it done.

 

[mas0764]

I think the best move for the Rangers now is to kick the 2C decision into the summer when guys like Scheifele could be more available. By then, both Strome's camp and the Rangers will know where the other stands on contract talks.

At the deadline this year focus on depth and stylistic fits. Lehkonen would be a great add for the bottom 6. Domi or DeBrusk are interesting to me as buy low guys who maybe you can catch lightning in a bottle in the top6. Miller & Pysyk from BUF are also interesting as cheap depth options (and familiar with Gallant) if they arent fully sold on an all-rookie pair in the playoffs.

Agreed, keep the powder dry. You can find a longer term center solution this summer whether it's a Scheifele or a Dach or something.

 

[mas0764]

We don't need a 30 goal scoring center signed for two more seasons?

I like Scheifele a little more cause he's a bit younger than Miller and has 2 more years instead of 1.

But that's still a very now move.

I'd way rather Dach.

 

[mas0764]

Watching Canes-Panthers and now Avs-Knights, it's very clear that these teams are at another level of depth. Our D depth may be on the verge of being solved if we can just trust the rooks, but our forwards are a minimum of 2 players away from being able to match the depth of either team. Quite frankly, the team we match up best against is the Panthers and only because they're not quite as fast as the other teams. Knights, Canes and Avs are very fast up front. They attack with constant waves. They will simply dismantle us 5v5.

But not sure how much we should be willing to spend to fix the issue this season. I'd be open to moving some B prospects or picks, but if it's a pure rental -- def none of the 22 first round pick, Schneider, Jones, Robertson, Barron, Berard, Cullye, Lundkvist or Othmann. If we're trading for an top 9 player with term who can increase the overall skill, speed, forecheck of the team (and it can make cap sense) then i'd be more open to moving VK, Lundkvist, Robertson and possibly, the 22 1st. But I'm not moving any of those pieces outside VK for someone like Lehkonen. It would need to be a bigger asset.

That being said, if we plan to compete against the best in the POs -- we simply can't expect much if McKegg, Rooney and Gauthier are making up half of our bottom 6. Not when the other 3 (when Kakko comes back) are Chytil, Reaves and Goodrow.

I think one of Mckegg, Rooney and Gauth can be in the lineup but not all 3. So that means we're minimum 2 forwards away from matching depth. Next year, Blais comes back and we possibly add a rookie or two from Barron, Cullye and Berard and we're not that far off, really.

Good analysis. And not only are the Canes ahead of us in current depth but their prospect pool is deeper than ours so they will be ahead for a while. They have the star power too, so it's not like we are going to beat them at the top while they get us with depth. They are a tier ahead of us plain and simple.

But the sheer fact is making a 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 isn't great for us, because it further depletes our asset depth and still doesn't really catch us up to those teams.

What we need is time. Carolina has been at this for a while, a couple more seasons than us building up their young core, and they've hit, or are in the process of hitting, on a ton of post-first round picks. We basically just started in 2018 and haven't found as many later-drafted forwards, hell even our first round picks haven't arrived yet truly.

We still need to flood our roster with highly talented youth to equal them.

Patience, grasshoppers.

 

[Anthony5967]

Where is Chicago trading Dach? Lol

 

[mas0764]

But imo Kravy is a pretty time sensitive asset.

I'm not understanding the risk of this.

If his value now is only a second, and that value is "time sensitive," then what exactly is the risk? That the value is going to drop to a third or fourth? Who cares?

Seconds are already basically shots in the dark and anything after that is almost a guaranteed zero.

Rift and all, it's still a way better chance that Kravtsov either has a change of heart or rehabs his play in the KHL to make himself more valuable, than the chance that you find something good from that second round pick you're gonna get for him.

It's like saying you can have $10 now, but if you wait, you have a 5% chance to get $100, or a 30% chance that you only get $5.

I'll take the chance at $100.

 

[mas0764]

Where is Chicago trading Dach? Lol

Speculated by Brooks and inferred from their list of untouchables allegedly not including him, as well as possibly Chiarelli taking over there.

 

[bhamill]

I said "assist," not sole responsibility.

Oh boy. Hahahah.

 

[Anthony5967]

I'm not understanding the risk of this.

If his value now is only a second, and that value is "time sensitive," then what exactly is the risk? That the value is going to drop to a third or fourth? Who cares?

Seconds are already basically shots in the dark and anything after that is almost a guaranteed zero.

Rift and all, it's still a way better chance that Kravtsov either has a change of heart or rehabs his play in the KHL to make himself more valuable, than the chance that you find something good from that second round pick you're gonna get for him.

It's like saying you can have $10 now, but if you wait, you have a 5% chance to get $100, or a 30% chance that you only get $5.

I'll take the chance at $100.

100% correct. This idea that they have to trade him is ridiculous. Let another team offer sheet him and match it if it’s less than $1.5M lol. He’s got to play or waits till he’s 27 to come back.

 

[Anthony5967]

Speculated by Brooks and inferred from their list of untouchables allegedly not including him, as well as possibly Chiarelli taking over there.

If Chiarelli takes over that team, I’ll be laughing.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

2-0 against TB.
2-1 against TOR.
1-1 vs FLA.
1-1 vs VGK.
0-1 vs CAR.
0-2 vs COL.

? vs PIT.

Are you looking for perfect records against everyone? It’s not that bad. Actually, some may say it’s good, especially against eastern teams. And it’s been noted before that we dominated Carolina before the bubble and look what happened next.

2-1 vs Florida actually.

 

[Synergy27]

I think Nils, Krav, and a first would constitute the "pieces we don't want to," that have enough value to get it done.

That’s where we disagree. I value those guys myself but I don’t think, even combined, that they have value enough around the league to return, say, Turcotte. Teams draft those centers for a reason.

I think we need to move Laf or Kakko to get into that tier, and in doing so transfer our planned future investment from wing to center.

I’m hoping to be pleasantly surprised though.

 

[mas0764]

That’s where we disagree. I value those guys myself but I don’t think, even combined, that they have value enough around the league to return, say, Turcotte. Teams draft those centers for a reason.

I think we need to move Laf or Kakko to get into that tier, and in doing so transfer our planned future investment from wing to center.

I’m hoping to be pleasantly surprised though.

Yeah, I just can't see that. Laf and Kakko were 1st and 2nd overall picks.

Turcotte was picked 7th. It's not the same, it's an entire tier or tiers down. If Kakko is in the deal I want Turcotte and substantial additions.

Of course, Nils and Krav are down tiers from Turcotte's tier, but that's why I'm including three assets.

 

[Kocur Dill]

The Rangers would need to find a very cheap goaltender. They can't afford a $2.4M back up goalie and have another $3M plus player in their bottom six. They still have one more season of Miller on his ELC. Schneider and Jones are ELC players.

Calgary traded a 3rd round pick in 2022 to the Bruins for Daniel Vladar. The Flames signed Vladar to a 2 year deal worth $750K per. Group II free agent. He has been OK/good for the Flames in his limited opportunities. His numbers are decent at 7-3-1 2.57 GAA and .911 save % in 11 games. Vladar is good for the Flames cap at $750K. It allows them to pay everyone else.

The Rangers have to get Nemeth off their cap. His buyout is cheap.

I feel like Charlie Lindgren is in the cards this summer.

 

[Synergy27]

Yeah, I just can't see that. Laf and Kakko were 1st and 2nd overall picks.

Turcotte was picked 7th. It's not the same, it's an entire tier or tiers down. If Kakko is in the deal I want Turcotte and substantial additions.

Of course, Nils and Krav are down tiers from Turcotte's tier, but that's why I'm including three assets.

I know that’s not how you see it, but I think it’s wishful thinking to think that other teams don’t see it that way, especially considering their continuing slow starts. Lundkvist was a very late first that has been just ok since coming to NA. Kravtsov, who I personally still have very high hopes for, obviously comes with a ton of baggage. Our firsts are likely going to be very late for the foreseeable future.

Those C prospects are insanely valuable. That’s why we need to draft them much more regularly. Shift the ones that don’t work out to wing, or trade them because they remain valuable longer than other positions.

 

[mas0764]

That’s why we need to draft them much more regularly.

We agree on that.

 

[jay from jersey]

I'm not understanding the risk of this.

If his value now is only a second, and that value is "time sensitive," then what exactly is the risk? That the value is going to drop to a third or fourth? Who cares?

Seconds are already basically shots in the dark and anything after that is almost a guaranteed zero.

Rift and all, it's still a way better chance that Kravtsov either has a change of heart or rehabs his play in the KHL to make himself more valuable, than the chance that you find something good from that second round pick you're gonna get for him.

It's like saying you can have $10 now, but if you wait, you have a 5% chance to get $100, or a 30% chance that you only get $5.

I'll take the chance at $100.

You might. But if you need that 10$ for something important now, your not going to worry about the small possibility of it becoming 100.
The longer krav stays out of NA, the worse it’s going to be for his value.
And the rangers aren’t going to hold him until he’s 27, no team does that.
If they can get Lehkonen straight up for him and they have him for at least 1 more year maybe more it’s a win.
Kravs value likely doesn’t get any higher from this point in time. Only lower. There still remains almost no chance he’ll ever play for the rangers again.
If you can get a now asset of Lehkonen/Connor brown for say krav+4th you take that and run all day.
Kravy has significant baggage. Leaving twice and all that’s gone on certainly has affected his value.
Any GM trading for him will be wary because he’s a known flight risk if he’s not on the big club out of camp.
Gorton/Bobrov would likely take a gamble on him since he was there guy and they all probably still have a good relationship.
His value likely doesn’t get any higher then it is right now, it can/and almost certainly will get worse the longer we hold him.
Even if his value is a 2nd+Decent prospect, you’d take it and hopefully use some of the 3 2nd rounders to move up in the draft to get their guy.
No GM wants to hold an asset that will likely never play for the team, that will likely keep going down in value.
They’d rather use it to improve upon what they have.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

The Knicks don't stink. The Knicks suck. The Knicks have lost three straight games to Portland, OKC and the Nets. Portland traded their entire team. The Knicks blew a 20 point lead in that game. Josh Giddey did a dance on the Knicks at the Garden. SGA didn't play. It didn't matter. Triple double for the white boy from Australia. The Nets were playing with their backups and the Knicks blew another 20 point plus lead at home. Dolan will be preoccupied with that disaster.

I couldn't even believe what I was watching last night. Let's hope this leads Dolan back to his true love and Drury is left in peace.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Laf, Miller, Jones, Schneider are all on ELCs next season. That’s a lot of talent and potential production. There’s a cap squeeze for sure, but they can be very competitive next season if they make the right moves and the kids continue to develop.

Then you add in some of the guys like Cuylle, Berard, Othman (Depending on who is traded) and you have plug and play young guys to fill out the lineup, which is what every high end team needs.

 

[GAGLine]

We just watched Jones-schneider do really well. Why waste an asset on giordano?

It was one game, against a team missing 2 of its best players and they aren't that deep when they are healthy. And injuries happen. We could use a better option than Nemeth.

No interest in Scheifele. I like what has developed here in Strome.

Would much rather use assets to improve RW and strong depth.

Do we really need a long term RW solution? We've got Kreider, Panarin, Kakko and Laf. If we add a long term RW, then we are pushing someone down to the 3rd line.

I do to. I'd love to have a top 3 C of Zibby/Scheif/Strome.

That C depth, as well as having Fox + Igor... we can go toe to toe with any team for 7 games. Even the Florida/Carolina/Avs of the NHL.

Neither Strome nor Scheifele are strong defensively, and it's moot anyway since we can't remotely afford both.

 

[Avery16]

this can’t be the only reason for all his issues, can it?

 

[CLW]

this can’t be the only reason for all his issues, can it?

It's a bit of PR lipstick imo but it's what it is. Best of luck to him.

 

[Kaapo di tutti capi]

this can’t be the only reason for all his issues, can it?

Depends on how he was affected by COVID - everyone is different. When I got it, I had the sniffles and some body aches - I've had head colds that made me feel way worse. Other people have become bedridden or have died - probably depends on a whole bunch of factors - which variant you contracted, genetic makeup etc.

 

[Avery16]

 

[bleedblue94]

Yes, because Chicago didn't rely on Niemi like the Rangers rely on Igor. Niemi played well, but he wasn't the ONLY reason why the Blackhawks won night in and night out. Put Niemi on this team right now and you think they'd be where they are? They'd be in the dumpster.

I've discounted it because that's what is it. That's what the eye test shows and that's what the underlying numbers back up. If Igor wasn't playing out of his mind the Rangers would thinking about the lottery and not the playoffs. That's not a recipe for long term success and it's not a recipe for winning a championship.

Again, point out where I exactly said "ELITE GOALTENDING ISN'T IMPORTANT". Please do because I can't wait to see it. You're trying to twist my argument into me saying that because yours is failing so badly and every example you give just proves my point. I have consistently said (and please read this CAREFULLY) is that ALONE it is NOT ENOUGH. You're goaltender CANNOT be the sole reason for your success. A big part? Absolutely. But the sole reason like it is now? That team is going nowhere.

I understand this, but the point is that chicago did not rely on neimi bc they invested more money on the rest of the roster. You like that model better, so I am saying than why not advocate trading igor to invest more into the skaters on the roster and role with georgiev. you cant advocate that igor is better than neimi but the rest of the nyr roster should also be as good as the chicago roster that made up for niemi's deficiencies. every team is going to have weaknesses, chicago had niemi and they covered for it. nyr has horrible depth and have igor covering for that. all I am saying is there is a ying and yang with every roster. I absolutely want to see the roster improved, but I cant just discredit the team success simply bc they have the best goalie in the nhl (again) playing at an elite level that is helping his team win games.