Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XI: We can read between the lines

[haveandare]

Where would Shaw even play? The fourth line is great right now and Shaw doesn’t deserve to play much higher than that

 

[NickyFotiu]

This month is crucial to paint a better picture for the playoffs. If we’re well out of it by Thanskgiving, it’ll be tougher to catch up ground and make the playoffs

I agree that 3 more weeks of games will give us a better idea of our chances. I said last week it is hard for us to be ruled out in October when people were saying we had no chance to catch up with a playoff pace. The pace arguments were pretty hysterical for any team (not us specifically) 3 points out of the playoffs in October but by December we will have larger sample side of games to look at.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I agree that 3 more weeks of games will give us a better idea of our chances. I said last week it is hard for us to be ruled out in October when people were saying we had no chance to catch up with a playoff pace. The pace arguments were pretty hysterical for any team (not us specifically) 3 points out of the playoffs in October but by December we will have larger sample side of games to look at.

I always had my benchmark set around Thanksgiving for AV and any trades to happen. We got a tougher schedule coming up this month so the boys better be ready to face some adversity.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I always had my benchmark set around Thanksgiving for AV and any trades to happen. We got a tougher schedule coming up this month so the boys better be ready to face some adversity.

That makes sense. Last night was the first game this season that we looked like a legitimate team. We still have a lot to prove but last night was encouraging. I hope they continue on that path. JT was great. Brady had his best game of the season. We need guys to step up like those two did last night.

 

[brians1128]

That makes sense. Last night was the first game this season that we looked like a legitimate team. We still have a lot to prove but last night was encouraging. I hope they continue on that path. JT was great. Brady had his best game of the season. We need guys to step up like those two did last night.

I agree to me it was the first win that actually felt like a win, Our other wins didn't have us playing 60 mins or we beat a bottom feeder

 

[haveandare]

I agree to me it was the first win that actually felt like a win, Our other wins didn't have us playing 60 mins or we beat a bottom feeder

Yeah, Vegas had been making it work with bad goalies, but I could only get so encouraged by beating a 4th goalie behind any team.

 

[Lion Hound]

22 NHL Scouts at the Wings/Sens game last night.

 

[NikC]

That first article is steaming hot garbage.

Gorton had not been good so far.
The Talbot trade was awful, the Smith signing looks suspect, E. Stall, Hagelin, Stepan trade... Yandle to Shattenkirk. .

Whatever percentage of blame you attribute to post Sather, Gorton. .. this organization has their heads up their behind....

Gorton will be defined fully by this season. .. but how anyone can be pleased with him is beyond me...

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Gorton had not been good so far.
The Talbot trade was awful, the Smith signing looks suspect, E. Stall, Hagelin, Stepan trade... Yandle to Shattenkirk. .

Whatever percentage of blame you attribute to post Sather, Gorton. .. this organization has their heads up their behind....

Gorton will be defined fully by this season. .. but how anyone can be pleased with him is beyond me...

Talbot was on a 1-year extension and a backup.
Hagelin was RFA
Letting Yandle go was the right call with the salary cap
Signing Shattenkirk was a good move at that AAV
The Stepan trade (And I love Stepan) looks like a good one but we are yet to see the results from that

The Smith deal looks bad, the Staal trade was awful

 

[NikC]

Talbot was on a 1-year extension and a backup.
Hagelin was RFA
Letting Yandle go was the right call with the salary cap
Signing Shattenkirk was a good move at that AAV
The Stepan trade (And I love Stepan) looks like a good one but we are yet to see the results from that

The Smith deal looks bad, the Staal trade was awful

Talbot salvaged a season for NYR... he's a starter now... that was Bad trade.

Etem for Hagelin was an awful trade.

Trading assets for Yandle, not resigning only to pick up a similar player in Shattenkirk.....

Stepan and Raanta for what looks to ???? At moment is not a win either...

Not good

 

[Ori]

Pavelec + Graves for a 2nd in 2018?

 

[Lion Hound]

Under Sather

Talbot trade was a loss because the had a first rounder on the table and missed the opportunity. But...was this Sather or Gorton?
Hagelin trade was just flat out terrible. Regardless of pending free agent status. The return was just bad. Mismanagement of assets. Sather or Gorton?
Yandle could have garnered a return but they needed him. I don't fault the GM here.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Under Gorton

Shatty- Really good signing for the money. Guy wanted to be here. Not sure how much the GM had to do to get him? He will come around.

Vesey- Winner winner...Free asset Gorton or Drury?

Stepan Trade- Still not done cooking yet. 7OA Pick in a weak draft. Significant, but I still question the pick. That's likely more on Gordie, not the GM. Time will tell. DeAngelo is a soild skater and has lots of potential. Too bad the org traded for a guy they are wasting in the AHL. GM or Coach here? I'm not certain. But...with certainty there were other players on that Arizona roster I think the majority of the board wanted. Dvorak, Domi etc. Not sure how much the Rangers won this deal.

Looking Ahead
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Nash - Good GM's make deals happen. Its a shame that Nash's list doesn't include Canadian teams, or so we hear. If it didn't I think the best partners for Rick Nash might be in Canada. With that said, last season of the contract. Club is currently in a good position against the cap. Leverage is there to eat some of Nash's cap and swing a deal to get a prospect or a 1st round pick. That should be the move. Take a player back in the deal to gain the asset. A Sather move would be to re-sign Nash to show loyalty to the player who came to your organization. Gortons move can't be the same. This is the test for JG.

Zuccarello- Fan favorite. Hustler, play maker. Home grown talent. Afforable....All of the aforementioned make him the clubs most tradeable asset. Is JG a visionary, or is he going to look at this for the now? Can this team win a cup with these players, in the next two seasons? If not...Is there enough talent currently cooking on the stove to be ready to compete in a couple of seasons? What can Matz Zucc garner in a return? Puuljujarvi and a 1st? Hall was traded for Larson, lol. What is Zucc's worth to Edmonton?

McDoangh- Capt, top 1, 2 dman for just about any team in the league. 2 years left. Affordable for the now. What's the market for a top pairing Dman who fits in your cap? Is he irreplaceable to the NYR? Could be. But...what could he get in a return?

If JG really is to impress, the 3 players mentioned to me seem to be his biggest tests as GM.

 

[Krams]

Under Sather

Talbot trade was a loss because the had a first rounder on the table and missed the opportunity. But...was this Sather or Gorton?
Hagelin trade was just flat out terrible. Regardless of pending free agent status. The return was just bad. Mismanagement of assets. Sather or Gorton?
Yandle could have garnered a return but they needed him. I don't fault the GM here.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Under Gorton
Shatty- Really good signing for the money. Guy wanted to be here. Not sure how much the GM had to do to get him? He will come around.

Vesey- Winner winner...Free asset Gorton or Drury?

Stepan Trade- Still not done cooking yet. 7OA Pick in a weak draft. Significant, but I still question the pick. That's likely more on Gordie, not the GM. Time will tell. DeAngelo is a soild skater and has lots of potential. Too bad the org traded for a guy they are wasting in the AHL. GM or Coach here? I'm not certain. But...with certainty there were other players on that Arizona roster I think the majority of the board wanted. Dvorak, Domi etc. Not sure how much the Rangers won this deal.
Looking Ahead
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Nash - Good GM's make deals happen. Its a shame that Nash's list doesn't include Canadian teams, or so we hear. If it didn't I think the best partners for Rick Nash might be in Canada. With that said, last season of the contract. Club is currently in a good position against the cap. Leverage is there to eat some of Nash's cap and swing a deal to get a prospect or a 1st round pick. That should be the move. Take a player back in the deal to gain the asset. A Sather move would be to re-sign Nash to show loyalty to the player who came to your organization. Gortons move can't be the same. This is the test for JG.

Zuccarello- Fan favorite. Hustler, play maker. Home grown talent. Afforable....All of the aforementioned make him the clubs most tradeable asset. Is JG a visionary, or is he going to look at this for the now? Can this team win a cup with these players, in the next two seasons? If not...Is there enough talent currently cooking on the stove to be ready to compete in a couple of seasons? What can Matz Zucc garner in a return? Puuljujarvi and a 1st? Hall was traded for Larson, lol. What is Zucc's worth to Edmonton?

McDoangh- Capt, top 1, 2 dman for just about any team in the league. 2 years left. Affordable for the now. What's the market for a top pairing Dman who fits in your cap? Is he irreplaceable to the NYR? Could be. But...what could he get in a return?

If JG really is to impress, the 3 players mentioned to me seem to be his biggest tests as GM.

Zibanejad trade should be highlighted, it's Gorton's best move to date.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Talbot salvaged a season for NYR... he's a starter now... that was Bad trade.

Etem for Hagelin was an awful trade.

Trading assets for Yandle, not resigning only to pick up a similar player in Shattenkirk.....

Stepan and Raanta for what looks to ???? At moment is not a win either...

Not good

Talbot wasn't a starter when we traded him. And he was on a 1-year extension, limiting options for negotiations. Lowering his value. Just because he is a starter now, doesn't mean he was worth a starter package in return. He was also pending UFA. Had no RFA years left.

Hagelin was a cap dump. You can complain about it all you want but no team is going to give up good assets for a player we could not sign due to the cap. Etem for Hagelin is what you get for a camp dump. That was not a bad trade by Gorton. It was bad cap management leading up to that off-season by Sather

Yandle couldn't be re-signed again, due to the salary cap. it isn't really Gorton's fault. That trade was done by Sather. With 50% retained. Once that contract expired, we needed more cap space to keep him. We couldn't make that work. A year later, we cleared cap by trading away Derek Stepan

Stepan+Raanta for a 22-year old cost-controlled D-man and a 7th overall pick used on a 18-year old center and you want to judge that trade 5 months later? Really?


And how about signing Grabner, trading for Zibanejad, getting Shattenkirk short-term when nobody thought it was possible, getting Holden who had a 30-point season as a D-man for a 4th rounder. Or are we just going to cherry pick to bitch about Gorton?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Gorton had not been good so far.
The Talbot trade was awful, the Smith signing looks suspect, E. Stall, Hagelin, Stepan trade... Yandle to Shattenkirk. .

Whatever percentage of blame you attribute to post Sather, Gorton. .. this organization has their heads up their behind....

Gorton will be defined fully by this season. .. but how anyone can be pleased with him is beyond me...

Neither the Talbot or Hagelin trades happened under his watch. I don't understand why people continue to assign these trades to him, its as ridiculous as those who gave JG credit for the Gaborik trade.

Staal was a horrible move, but calling the Stepan trade a bust is way too premature. There is no problem with going from Yandle to Shattenkirk when you look at the term of the contract between the 2 players. People who whined that they didn't sell of Yandle need to look at how many teams actually sell off players while firmly entrenched in a playoff spot. St Louis was 2 points up on LA when they moved Shattenkirk with LA literally getting Quick back a few days (may have actually been the day before) prior to that so they don't exactly qualify. San Jose is the only team that I can remember doing this in 2013, and they had young replacements ready to take the minutes of the guys they moved.

I think its fair to say that his performance as GM has been a mixed bag (I though his 2nd offseason was excellent tbh) but to paint his tenure as GM as a failure thus far is just flat out wrong.

I don't know what the issues was with moving assets for Yandle either. This team won the presidents trophy and was a legitimate contender to win the whole damn thing. If you're not going to move assets then, when exactly is the time to do it? Yes they're hurting because of it now, but it was the right move at the time.

 

[Lion Hound]

Zibanejad trade should be highlighted, it's Gorton's best move to date.

Def agree there.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Pavelec + Graves for a 2nd in 2018?

Why?

I get that they should be trying to add picks but why?

 

[Riche16]

The only thing (jury still being out) about GM GG is that he didn't sell the past two seasons when he CLEARLY should have.

The mantra that "anything can happen" etc. kept him from cashing in on some assets he should have. That may include Nash.

Otherwise he seems to be doing a fairly good job at turning the ship around. It won't / can't happen overnight or in one off season... the damage inflicted by "going for it" year after year seeps all the way into the roots of the tree. No GM alive or dead could do significantly more in all probability. It's going to take some time.

I don't think judging him after this season is fair.

 

[aufheben]

Gorton has been one of the best GMs in hockey IMO. You wanna see a general manager with his head up his arse, look at the Oilers and Chiarelli.

 

[NickyFotiu]

This under Sather under Gorton stuff is bordering on silly. Gorton had a huge say before 2015 and Slats still has a huge say today. Its not one voice making moves. Its 2-5 people voicing their opinions on moves.

 

[haveandare]

Talbot salvaged a season for NYR... he's a starter now... that was Bad trade.

Etem for Hagelin was an awful trade.

Trading assets for Yandle, not resigning only to pick up a similar player in Shattenkirk.....

Stepan and Raanta for what looks to ???? At moment is not a win either...

Not good

Shattenkirk is vastly superior to Yandle and is on a far better contract

 

[Ori]

Why?

I get that they should be trying to add picks but why?

Graves is a 4th rd, 19th pk (110th overall) - I hope he could make the team this year, but he did not - so why wait and he is 22 years old. I think we should look for a new prospect, and some teams are interested in Graves so it should be easy to move him for a future. And I`m not happy about Pavelec - I think we should look after a new backup goalie so add him in that Graves package to move some salary at the same time.

 

[JT Kreider]

What sucks about the Talbot trade is that we couldn't get that 2nd first rounder the Oilers had. Instead it went to the freaking Islanders for freaking Griffin Reinhart. Barzal should have been ours.

 

[Kovalev27]

I could throw a blanket passed talbot right now so could care less about that one. Never was a big fan.

The hagelin trade was the one that was horrific especially considering he ended up in Pitt

Letting yandle walk because AV wouldn’t play him was awful as well but considering the glut on the left it made more sense.

 

[RangerBlues]

However you arrive at it the Rangers are a collection of interchangeable parts with no dynamic superstar talent.