Roster Building Thread - Part VIII (2023-24 season)

[Machinehead]

Lol! Come on, MH. The "we have a #1 goalie dilemma" posts were flying after Igor's last loss. "Washed up". "He's done". Etc.

Idk maybe I just block out posts that are completely unserious.

The only earnest discussion about Quick "taking over" is whether it would be controversial to ride the hot hand until he cooled off.

 

[Fitzy]

Lol! Come on, MH. The "we have a #1 goalie dilemma" posts were flying after Igor's last loss. "Washed up". "He's done". Etc.

From the posters with personality disorders, yeah.

I stick by my statement that Igor is a well above average goaltender, but that hes prone to slumps due to mental issues (Which is 99% of goalies not names Lundqvist or Brodeur, to be fair)

 

[Machinehead]

From the posters with personality disorders, yeah.

I stick by my statement that Igor is a well above average goaltender, but that hes prone to slumps due to mental issues (Which is 99% of goalies not names Lundqvist or Brodeur, to be fair)

Even Brodeur let in some of the biggest playoff whoppers in recent memory. Goalies are weird. That's why I don't like paying them a lot.

If there wasn't a cap, then absolutely, get the best one possible.

 

[Levitate]

From the posters with personality disorders, yeah.

I stick by my statement that Igor is a well above average goaltender, but that hes prone to slumps due to mental issues (Which is 99% of goalies not names Lundqvist or Brodeur, to be fair)

Lundqvist also often had some slow starts etc
Big thing will always be whether Igor is ready for the playoffs and playing well then.

Anyways been watching Lindgren a bit more lately and I think he's just trying to do too much. Look, when Adam Fox is your partner and you're trying to make the breakout stretch pass down the ice, just...don't. When you're trying to walk the line and then take the puck deep and make a play, just...don't. Your job is to play defense and move the puck accurately to Adam Fox. I mean, you can make some plays, sure that's fine, but you don't need to play like you're trying to prove you aren't being carried by Fox (because you are and you can't get away from that).

If he pulled it back just a bit he'd probably kill offensive possession a lot less. I dunno why people also are all upset about people stating Lindgren hasn't been good this year. In the past he's been better, that's what a lot of us are remembering and wishing he'd get back to. He hasn't been good this year, we feel like he could play better, but waving our hands in the air and going "but he's a warrior" isn't changing the stats about what he's doing right now. He needs to be better.

FINALLY...team definitely needs to make a move at some point but I think as long as they're winning then Drury isn't feeling pressured into jumping the gun early. But obviously they can't go past the trade deadline with Bonino as a center on a "3rd line", and while the "4th line" has been better (I think??) they don't score enough overall to be a real 3rd line replacement.

They need Kakko to come back and at least be a positive player who can create some offense and they need a center replacement whether it's Chytil coming back or someone who can push the offense a bit but not be terrible in other areas of the ice. I'd be happy with a Cuylle/Vesey-Chytil-Kakko "3rd line" (honestly probably would rather have Vesey up there) and think that would provide a lot of depth, but with Chytil an unknown then they probably have to fix that "3C" spot so the 4th line can go back to being the 4th line

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

So Lindgren sucks, the Miller Trouba pairing sucks, Schneider sucks, the goaltending has been “OK”, but the team has the most points in the league going into 2024. I don’t have enough breadcrumbs to get me back home. Somebody get me a fancy chart so I can use it as a fan to cool off and help me breathe.

 

[Savant]

Yeah good idea. Have you bothered to look at how many supposedly good teams this year have suffered because of average goal tending. Toronto for one and look across the Hudson at the Devils for another. And the reason the Rangers are better than Boston is because of what is between the pipes. Take a look back at the last game we won in Boston 2-1.

I don’t care. You can’t commit that much cap to a goalie in this era unless you are doing Tampa/Vegas shenanigans. There is something in the middle of a Vezina winner and what Toronto has. Toronto also locked themselves into their roster and couldn’t improve. If the Rangers sign Igor, they are in the same boat.

It’s not personal it’s just cap management. Blame the Trouba deal and all the NMCs that got given out

 

[Blue Blooded]

I don't know what you're "disagreeing" with. We're 15th in save percentage at even strength. They've been good, but not difference-making.

The poster said that's why we're better than Boston. Boston ranks 2nd just behind Winnipeg. They were 1st last year by a lot. Boston has better goaltending than we do.

That's not to say our goaltending is bad, far from it, but we're not leaning on it like a crutch anymore. That's a good thing.

According to Moneypuck we're #1 in the league in GSAx. xG models are what they are, but goaltending has definitely been a strength.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Who said the goaltending has been just okay?

Igor had a rough patch but aside from that it’s been excellent collectively.

 

[huerter]

Ottawa chucked Brannstrom up at forward. Zach Jones at forward proponents are butt cised.

 

[Machinehead]

According to Moneypuck we're #1 in the league in GSAx. xG models are what they are, but goaltending has definitely been a strength.

Our total in that metric has been split pretty evenly between Quick and Shesterkin, so it's not a good argument to just hand Igor a blank check.

 

[Machinehead]

So Lindgren sucks, the Miller Trouba pairing sucks, Schneider sucks, the goaltending has been “OK”, but the team has the most points in the league going into 2024. I don’t have enough breadcrumbs to get me back home. Somebody get me a fancy chart so I can use it as a fan to cool off and help me breathe.

Who even brought up "fancy charts?"

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Our total in that metric has been split pretty evenly between Quick and Shesterkin, so it's not a good argument to just hand Igor a blank check.

I’m not a goalies are voodoo guy but I agree with this.

Just grab what ever knob is playing for Arizona for like 2 mill and let Benoit do
His thing.

 

[Machinehead]

I’m not a goalies are voodoo guy but I agree with this.

Just grab what ever knob is playing for Arizona for like 2 mill and let Benoit do
His thing.

It sounds like you are but you haven't admitted yet.

 

[Machinehead]

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It sounds like you are but you haven't admitted yet.

Nah I think there are goalies who are good or can be good. Sometimes they play on really bad teams and/or have poor coaching.

I feel like Arizona does a good job selecting guys who are good but has no idea how to keep them good at this level.

I don’t think some of the other teams with goaltending issues do that. They suck at selecting and developing goalies

 

[Machinehead]

Nah I think there are goalies who are good or can be good. Sometimes they play on really bad teams and/or have poor coaching.

I feel like Arizona does a good job selecting guys who are good but has no idea how to keep them good at this level.

I don’t think some of the other teams with goaltending issues do that. They suck at selecting and developing goalies

You might be right in some cases. I also think some teams just play defense so bad that it breaks the scales of what analytics can measure. Toronto has an all-time bad defense corps. That's why all of their goalies suddenly suck. I hope that's the problem with the Devils.

On the other end of the spectrum, Boston pulled Tim Thomas out of a garbage can and he became the best goalie ever, then they did it with Ullmark, and now Jeremy Swayman is Hasek. The team has to be doing something that makes it easy to play goal.

There was a whole thing around the 2014 World Cup around key passes and key dribbles in soccer. A "key" pass or dribble is one where the attacker beats the defender that was covering him. It reached in and grabbed the crux of what produces offense, and analytics in the sport took off.

I still don't think hockey has found that silver bullet yet, if it exists at all. Some teams are doing it. Barry Trotz teams never gave up goals despite the underlying numbers repeatedly saying that they should have. But they haven't distilled it yet.

 

[Avery16]

Our total in that metric has been split pretty evenly between Quick and Shesterkin, so it's not a good argument to just hand Igor a blank check.

One is entering his prime years and the other is decidedly in his twilight. Their pay won’t be equal.

 

[Machinehead]

One is entering his prime years and the other is decidedly in his twilight. Their pay won’t be equal.

Nobody's arguing that.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Our total in that metric has been split pretty evenly between Quick and Shesterkin, so it's not a good argument to just hand Igor a blank check.

But again, that’s not what you said:

The Rangers haven't gotten particularly good goaltending this year.

Now you’ve gotten called out on the comment a few times and are changing the goalposts. You made a blank statement saying goaltending hasnt been particularly good. Stick with that and defend that(without moving goal posts or cherry pickings stats) or just admit you were wrong.

 

[pld459666]

For those in here that want Lindholm, have you seen him this year? He’s not remotely the same player, and I don’t think it’s worth the assets CGY would want for him at the deadline; not even factoring in the cap maneuvers it would require.

If Drury wants to spend a first+, make it a worthwhile investment by seeing what CBJ or CGY would want for Sillinger or Zary. Both would be great fits as centers to the roster long-term, depending on what happens to Chytil, or can easily shift to the W which they’ve both done plenty. Both fit the north-south style they want to play and have shown the ability to be able to finish between the circles. Neither player are likely even available, but it’s worth looking into it.

No one in CGY is having a decent go at it this year.

I still think, down season aside, Lindholm would be a great add.

 

[Avery16]

A meme is worth a thousand charts.

 

[Machinehead]

But again, that’s not what you said:

Now you’ve gotten called out on the comment a few times and are changing the goalposts. You made a blank statement saying goaltending hasnt been particularly good. Stick with that and defend that(without moving goal posts or cherry pickings stats) or just admit you were wrong.

Fine, I was wrong. The way described it obviously didn't capture what was I trying to convey.

 

[pld459666]

So Lindgren sucks, the Miller Trouba pairing sucks, Schneider sucks, the goaltending has been “OK”, but the team has the most points in the league going into 2024. I don’t have enough breadcrumbs to get me back home. Somebody get me a fancy chart so I can use it as a fan to cool off and help me breathe.

And they are I believe 7th in GA.

 

[Levitate]

I don't think MH was specifically saying "the Rangers goaltending has been bad" he was mostly getting at "The Rangers haven't been relying on their goaltending to the extent they have in other seasons and that's a GOOD thing"
Reading between the lines because context is hard etc etc I get "the Rangers goaltending hasn't been noteworthy this year but it has been good enough for what the Rangers need and that is a good thing in itself" and also "don't pay Shesterkin $8 mill/year + because a goalie isn't worth that in this cap league"

 

[Machinehead]

The new MoneyPuck odds have us at 5th best.