Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LII

[Krams]

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[Fitzy]

Gentle reminder that it's still well over a month before the NHL draft is held.

It's only gonna get worse.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Gentle reminder that it's still well over a month before the NHL draft is held.

It's only gonna get worse.

Yeah Im still waiting for the onslaught of horrible trade proposals out of Montreal.

 

[B17 Apricots]

Lets say we have the 23rd pick, and NSH is targeting someone at the end of the 1st, they offer the 37th & the 40th, or LA same thing, offers the 35th & the 49th. DET, 32nd & 56th...ETC, I'd say its largely dependent on whos still left on the board but it'd be hard for me to pass on those tbh

 

[GAGLine]

Lets say we have the 23rd pick, and NSH is targeting someone at the end of the 1st, they offer the 37th & the 40th, or LA same thing, offers the 35th & the 49th. DET, 32nd & 56th...ETC, I'd say its largely dependent on whos still left on the board but it'd be hard for me to pass on those tbh

That's too far to drop back, and we have never traded down before. I wouldn't rule it out, but I don't see us trading back out of the 1st round.

 

[kovazub94]

Lets say we have the 23rd pick, and NSH is targeting someone at the end of the 1st, they offer the 37th & the 40th, or LA same thing, offers the 35th & the 49th. DET, 32nd & 56th...ETC, I'd say its largely dependent on whos still left on the board but it'd be hard for me to pass on those tbh

If the trade originates with the Rangers then maybe they will accept such a drop off, but typically for 22–24 pick you’d expect something like 28-32 and 40 in return.

 

[GAGLine]

In 2018, we traded #26 and #48 for #22. Going from #23 to #27 or #28 should return a similar pick.

I'm still hoping we can trade up to grab one of Lundell/Holloway, but we will probably need a 2nd round pick, which we can maybe get by trading one of Strome/Georgiev.

 

[B17 Apricots]

If the trade originates with the Rangers then maybe they will accept such a drop off, but typically for 22–24 pick you’d expect something like 28-32 and 40 in return.

I'm all for that, unless you somehow get a Seth Jarvis dropping to that pick I'd absolutely take my chances that you can walk away with 2 of Peterka, Reichel, Khusnutdinov, Bordeleau, Nybeck, Hirvonen, etc...

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If they can't move up for Jarvis/Mercer (I'm assuming Lundell is gone in the top 10), Just stay where ever the Carolina pick is, take Greig and be done with it.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Yes but it wasn't built on puck possession is the original point, its nice when analytics suggest a team is good but the fact they were good was based on a dump and retrieve and physical will to win, not the possession game that the analytic world likes.

This isn't true.

First off, controlled entries lead to more shots/scoring chances than chip and chase. The former is plan A, the latter is plan B. Theres a reason why the Trotz of the world do everything in their power to limit Plan A.

The Blues have 5 or 6 guys who are really good at keeping control of the puck through the NZ and keeping it while entering the oppositions end. David Perron is elite at it and Robert Thomas is almost at the same level. Those guys can cut through a Trotz like system and keep the puck whether or not the other team likes it.

You want some semblance of balance between the two, of course (In the Rangers case, they have a few guys who are fantastic at entries, they realllllllly suck at getting pucks back when they don't have it) but the focus for any good team (including the Blues) was to carry the puck up ice and keep control of it, not dump it in and try to get it back - You can't win in this league if thats your go to and it hasn't been for any team that has won the cup in forever.

 

[Gospel of Prospal]

Has Laf spoken at all since the night we won the Lottery? Now that he's had time to digest things I'd love to hear his thoughts about coming to NYC.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Has Laf spoken at all since the night we won the Lottery? Now that he's had time to digest things I'd love to hear his thoughts about coming to NYC.

This was right after he was taken.

 

[Ola]

Lets say we have the 23rd pick, and NSH is targeting someone at the end of the 1st, they offer the 37th & the 40th, or LA same thing, offers the 35th & the 49th. DET, 32nd & 56th...ETC, I'd say its largely dependent on whos still left on the board but it'd be hard for me to pass on those tbh

Same here for sure. But I think it’s 50/50, it’s perfectly possible that our guys really like someone at that early 20 range too.

I’ve followed up on some players that I think have been on the verge. Two are Andrae and Nybeck. But, I don’t know, they haven’t quite convinced this season. One guy that I’ve seen very little of this year is Helge Grans, but I caught one period between Almtuna and Swe U20 yesterday and Grans was really flying. They will be able to follow the Germans for almost two months before draft day. Reichel is a kid that obviously got a ton of hockey in him but that still really is growing physically. I’ve not seen him this year, but if a kid like that pops and everything just fall in place they can easily shoot up a good 20-30 spots. Theodor Niederbach is a kid I know many scouts are watching closely right now. There could be someone out there that they really like. But if not, I am sure we could find really good quality in the 2nd. We have depth. Anyone we draft now, we can’t keep rushing them. They need 4-5 years at least. Draft for the future, forget about the picks. Then in 2-3 years you check in on them again...

 

[Gospel of Prospal]

This was right after he was taken.

Awesome. Thank you. Any other ones?

 

[Roo Returns]

Yeah Im still waiting for the onslaught of horrible trade proposals out of Montreal.

If you Statler and Waldorf cosplay it will make it all the better.

 

[NYR]

Nothing wrong with it but I get the sense that he doesn't like talking to the media very much lol

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Yeah Im still waiting for the onslaught of horrible trade proposals out of Montreal.

"Kotkaniemi + 2020 first round pick (16th overall) for 1st overall is a fair trade, bro"

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Awesome. Thank you. Any other ones?

I know Bettman hates attention being taken away from the playoffs, so outside of maybe a few clips or small quotes I wouldn't expect the Rangers or hockey media to start ramping up draft stuff until after a team wins the cup

 

[Shesterkybomb]

This isn't true.

First off, controlled entries lead to more shots/scoring chances than chip and chase. The former is plan A, the latter is plan B. Theres a reason why the Trotz of the world do everything in their power to limit Plan A.

The Blues have 5 or 6 guys who are really good at keeping control of the puck through the NZ and keeping it while entering the oppositions end. David Perron is elite at it and Robert Thomas is almost at the same level. Those guys can cut through a Trotz like system and keep the puck whether or not the other team likes it.

You want some semblance of balance between the two, of course (In the Rangers case, they have a few guys who are fantastic at entries, they realllllllly suck at getting pucks back when they don't have it) but the focus for any good team (including the Blues) was to carry the puck up ice and keep control of it, not dump it in and try to get it back - You can't win in this league if thats your go to and it hasn't been for any team that has won the cup in forever.

Ofcourse you are gonna do both, no team does one or the other but the teams that can dump and retrieve the puck well win, is the point. Teams that can't do both don't win. But the original point was that analytic groups are now taking credit for "puck placement dumps" as a new thing, it isn't, they only wanna take credit for it because they realize you need to be able to do it in playoffs to be successful, something they were resistant to acknowledge all along.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Ofcourse you are gonna do both, no team does one or the other but the teams that can dump and retrieve the puck well win, is the point. Teams that can't do both don't win. But the original point was that analytic groups are now taking credit for "puck placement dumps" as a new thing, it isn't, they only wanna take credit for it because they realize you need to be able to do it in playoffs to be successful, something they were resistant to acknowledge all along.

If they're tracking it now thats great, the more data we have the better but I don't remember it being denounced by anyone.

I'm not sure how valuable it'll be though. I imagine retrievals on dump ins would be a much more valuable stat.

 

[Vitto79]

Has Laf spoken at all since the night we won the Lottery? Now that he's had time to digest things I'd love to hear his thoughts about coming to NYC.

He can’t assume even though I’m sure JD told him he’s the NYR pick

 

[Shesterkybomb]

If they're tracking it now thats great, the more data we have the better but I don't remember it being denounced by anyone.

I'm not sure how valuable it'll be though. I imagine retrievals on dump ins would be a much more valuable stat.

The team with the least amount of resources put towards analytics won the cup last year, meanwhile the Leafs can't get out of the first round, go figure.

 

[Gospel of Prospal]

I know Bettman hates attention being taken away from the playoffs, so outside of maybe a few clips or small quotes I wouldn't expect the Rangers or hockey media to start ramping up draft stuff until after a team wins the cup

True, but even independent ones. I mean I can't imagine Laf has been entirely mum.

 

[Gospel of Prospal]

He can’t assume even though I’m sure JD told him he’s the NYR pick

Well, even questions like "IF you go to New York..."

 

[eco's bones]

I would not trade the Rangers Carolina pick for two seconds. We're not desperate for more prospects---at the point where we're at we should always lean towards quality over quantity.