Roster and Fantasy GM Thread: Pre-Draft Silly Season

[kanuck87]

Sam Gagner is on a 3 year contract

Doesn't mean we have to play him. The guy is useless anyways.

 

[vancityluongo]

Feel like if Virtanen can maintain his consistency, he would be a good fit with Horvat and Leipsic, which would free up Boeser to potentially play with Pettersson and maybe Baertschi, whom I feel are better fits with Boeser's style of play.

Leipsic - Horvat - Virtanen
Baertschi - Pettersson - Boeser
Archibald - Sutter - Gaudette
Gaunce - Dowd - Eriksson

Bottom two lines capable of effectively eating up defensive zone starts to give the top two lines opportunities in the offensive zone.

Not to pick on you, but two additions - both rookies - to a bottom-5 team (while subtracting two 50-point players) is not exactly a recipe for progression, let alone success. And even then, you're just dumping Gagner, a guy who for all intents and purposes will be on the opening day roster. Sadly, I do agree that this is probably what the team looks like in September, plus Gagner and maybe Vanek or a similar signing.

Every forward on the roster aside from Horvat and Boeser should be playing for their jobs in camp. Benning came in as GM guns blazing to change over the team, but has now put the team in a position where there are commitments to random assortments of players that have just been accepted despite being utterly mediocre. Legitimately don't know if that forward group would be a slam dunk favorite to win the Calder Cup.

 

[iceburg]

It’s hard to find to understand what pillow soft minutes are? My lord dude you can’t possibly be serious.

Again Patrick Wiercioch has a season two years ago where he had one of the fullest HERO charts in the NHL where he played in a similar offensive situation to Pouliot is now. You don’t seem to grasp all these borederline skills defenders are all capable of doing what Pouliot has in easy minutes and they all have track records of doing it.

In the same offensive zone starts and deployment as Pouliot had this year Patrick Wiercioch had the best CFRel% on a team that had the best defender of this generation. His CFRel% was also much better than Pouliot’s this year.

Adam Clendening when he was on the team had the 3rd best CF Rel% on the Canucks defensive core behind Edler and Tanev who had the best season of their careers.

These are the type of players Pouliot compares to, he was a guy that looked really good with 70 offensive zone starts which is a situation where pretty much any replacement level skill guy would look good then when he started to become a strength on strength player he was one of the worst players in the NHL in a ~20 game stretch he had something like 2 points and was ~-20.

There’s zero excuses for a guy to be playing in the easiest deployment among defenders on a team who is still bleeding goals against, that’s a sign that a defender isn’t really good at defending.

First, I think you have a valid point. Pouliot's minutes being sheltered is absolutely relevant to the analysis.

On Wiercioch, it has been suggested that he is the poster child for why analytics can only go so far. He had great numbers in Ottawa but was benched several times. Word is that inconsistency, lack of intensity, and foot speed were his challenges. I didn't watch him play at all so I can't really comment further. On Clendening, I remember getting so frustrated because he just never got anything done. I liked what Kevin Woodley said this morning on the radio (paraphrasing): "analytics are helpful but they don't tell the whole story". The eye test adds context and is relevant.

So, some of Pouliot's numbers are good, he makes some nice transition passes, and is decent in the offensive zone. I didn't see any of these things with Clendening. Pouliot has some challenges in the defensive zone, for sure. I see him as a decent depth defenseman. And, if he can avoid the mid-season 20 game downturns, he could have some upside. Again, I'm not trying to make Pouliot a top 4 D-man. I just think phrases like "one of the worst players in the league" and even "replacement level player" are a little harsh.

Finally, on the "pillow soft/absolutely destroyed" comments, I will always push back against hyperbole of which I believe this is an example. Some people like it and think they have to do it to add strength to their argument. I actually think it does the opposite, distracts from the relevant points and effectively weakens the argument... but, of course, that's my bias. So, hyperbole along with personal attacks I just ignore. I don't see them as useful.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Kane - Petterson - Boeser
Eriksson - Horvat - Virtanen
Leipsic - Gaudette - Goldobin
Gaunce - Sutter - Archibald
Gagner

Edler - Dahlin
Hutton - Tanev
Juolevi - Gudbranson
Stetcher / Biega

Trade MDZ to Chicago for whatever.

Yes lots of rookies in the lineup - often NCAA players transition well, Petterson needs to be in the NHL next imo. Juolevi we'll see. That 3rd line would get some of the Sedin line soft minutes.

 

[Verviticus]

On Wiercioch, it has been suggested that he is the poster child for why analytics can only go so far.

that’s a stupid f***ing thing to suggest

 

[m9]

The Provies: The Stretcher, the JV18 secret sauce and the showdown with Friedman





Two thoughts:

1) lmao Bergevin

2) Eriksson (no retention) for Alzner (no retention) ?

Alzner only makes 4.6 instead of 6 million, so if you can do the deal straight-up then I can think you have to. Figure out the rest out from there.

 

[Josepho]

This is absolutely moronic for the Oilers to do if true, but if they're really looking to dump him I'd see if we could snag him cheaply.

He's still young enough that he could help our defence in the future and he had a great year last season.

But only at the right price. No idea what Chiapete wants for him.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Baertschi and Gudbranson for Klefbom. I bet Chia does it.

 

[iceburg]

that’s a stupid ****ing thing to suggest

I hear you but apparently that's what people were thinking when he went to Colorado.

Edit:
Found the article: not sure how credible the milehighsticking.com is but, again, it's what was being said when he went to Colorado.

Colorado Avalanche: Patrick Wiercioch Might be a Steal

And the referenced TSN article by Yost

Patrick Wiercioch: analytics vs. eyeball test - Article - TSN

 

[Josepho]

I thought so too but apparently that's what people were thinking when he went to Colorado.

Those people who claimed that don't actually understand analytics.

I'm not gonna act like some math guru but I recall his zone starts being very ozone-heavy and his high CF% numbers being influenced by Karlsson (his numbers weren't nearly as good away from him obviously).

Not to mention, those numbers were from multiple seasons ago.

 

[iceburg]

Those people who claimed that don't actually understand analytics.

I'm not gonna act like some math guru but I recall his zone starts being very ozone-heavy and his high CF% numbers being influenced by Karlsson (his numbers weren't nearly as good away from him obviously).

Not to mention, those numbers were from multiple seasons ago.

Murray's comments in the TSN articled (link embedded in my post above) are very interesting. Yost goes into it in some detail.

 

[ginner classic]

Without the Sedins and with no acquisitions things are looking pretty full. If the Sedins come back we have to move at least two forwards out. Two of Goldobin, Baertschi and Granlund making the most sense.

We can go Sedin-free, weaponize the cap space late in the year (deadline), look for opportunities to trade the cheap middling forwards like Goldobin, Baertschi, and Granlund (highest value in November-ish when injuries strike and depth charts are exposed but cap hits still matter), look for significant opportunities to trade higher value assets (draft and deadline), and leave room for the kids to come up. If we sign the Sedins or any other free agents, we immediately have to move out players or lose them for nothing on waivers.

This is the blank canvas we start with...

Baertschi----Horvat----Boeser S1
Granlund-----Sutter ----Eriksson C1
Goldobin---Gagner---Virtanen S2
Leipsic--------Gaunce---Archibald C2
Boucher

Edler Stecher
MDZ Tanev
Hutton Gudbranson
Pouliot Biega


AHL - Pettersson, Gaudette, Dahlen, Gadjovich, Lind, Motte, Juolevi

 

[terrible dee]

Not to pick on you, but two additions - both rookies - to a bottom-5 team (while subtracting two 50-point players) is not exactly a recipe for progression, let alone success. And even then, you're just dumping Gagner, a guy who for all intents and purposes will be on the opening day roster. Sadly, I do agree that this is probably what the team looks like in September, plus Gagner and maybe Vanek or a similar signing.

Every forward on the roster aside from Horvat and Boeser should be playing for their jobs in camp. Benning came in as GM guns blazing to change over the team, but has now put the team in a position where there are commitments to random assortments of players that have just been accepted despite being utterly mediocre. Legitimately don't know if that forward group would be a slam dunk favorite to win the Calder Cup.

Also, people need to accept that Peterson is not going to play center, if he's not doing it in the SHL he sure as hell isn't doing it in the NHL

So, stop thinking our quest to solidify center ice, the most important position in hockey, is over, it's not

Once again the Canucks seem to be entering an era where the team is built from the Wings out, which aside from "The goal out" is the worst way to build a team.

If Peterson ends up being what we hope he will, I would trade either him or Boesser for a Blue-Chip first line center prospect or the opportunity to draft one.

Because if we don't have that piece, this next era will have ZERO CHANCE of EVER getting past the 2nd round, people who like regular season goals will certainly enjoy it, but that's all it will be good for.

Teams built around wingers don't cut it

We need Horvat + "?????"

Finding that guy is the difference between the chance for a cup and another 20 years treading water,

It doesn't matter who we trade to fill that spot (Besides Horvat) trade them, but get that spot FILLED

 

[terrible dee]

I clearly said it was a post from a while ago that I copy and pasted instead of going out of my way to type another paragraph.

Focus on the points I made as you said you want to enagage in discussion, ignore the rest of the stuff because it was directed at another poster.

You make no sense

 

[Addison Rae]

You make no sense

I make no sense? Huh who even are you.

My points were clearly outlined in my further post, learn to comprehend English.

 

[terrible dee]

There's no way they are trading JV18. Whether or not it's the right move there's just no way. He was the first player drafted in the current regime, and he was drafted 6th OA. The loss of face of turning a 6th overall pick for a few years of 10mins a game and turning it into what? A 2nd? A 22-24 year old player who is also struggling? Not worth it.


Also they'd probably trade him to someone like NYI for another "reclamation project" and we'd get to watch Michael Dal Colle put up 15 points from our 4th line while JV18 pots 30G next to Barzal. It's the Canucks way.

I'd have to agree,

This regime has shown, again and again, it is not willing to lose face by admitting mistakes.

JV ain't going nowhere

 

[Canadian Canuck]

How about Baertschi+Hutton for Klefbom?

Then move MDZ for a 3rd.

Klefbom-Tanev
Juolevi-Stecher
Edler-Gudbranson(ugh)
Pouliot/Biega

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Edmonton won't have interest in Hutton. They have a logjam on left D which his why they're shopping Klefbom in the first place (Nurse, Sekera, Russell).

 

[NoShowWilly]

At least these two teams have a mutual agreement to just play the game as fast as possible. Awful

 

[Black Noise]

If we get Klefbom for scraps I eat my shoe. However, Chiarelli though....

Klefbom is a stud.

 

[ginner classic]

Also, people need to accept that Peterson is not going to play center, if he's not doing it in the SHL he sure as hell isn't doing it in the NHL

So, stop thinking our quest to solidify center ice, the most important position in hockey, is over, it's not

Once again the Canucks seem to be entering an era where the team is built from the Wings out, which aside from "The goal out" is the worst way to build a team.

If Peterson ends up being what we hope he will, I would trade either him or Boesser for a Blue-Chip first line center prospect or the opportunity to draft one.

Because if we don't have that piece, this next era will have ZERO CHANCE of EVER getting past the 2nd round, people who like regular season goals will certainly enjoy it, but that's all it will be good for.

Teams built around wingers don't cut it

We need Horvat + "?????"

Finding that guy is the difference between the chance for a cup and another 20 years treading water,

It doesn't matter who we trade to fill that spot (Besides Horvat) trade them, but get that spot FILLED

Fully agree. Winger led teams don't win. Also agree that it's unlikely Pettersson is that guy. Horvat is not it either. He is a perfect number 2. We have another bottom 5 finish in us before this downturn is over. There are 3 pretty good centers in 2019 so far. Of even greater concern is the D.

 

[bossram]

Without the Sedins and with no acquisitions things are looking pretty full. If the Sedins come back we have to move at least two forwards out. Two of Goldobin, Baertschi and Granlund making the most sense.

We can go Sedin-free, weaponize the cap space late in the year (deadline), look for opportunities to trade the cheap middling forwards like Goldobin, Baertschi, and Granlund (highest value in November-ish when injuries strike and depth charts are exposed but cap hits still matter), look for significant opportunities to trade higher value assets (draft and deadline), and leave room for the kids to come up. If we sign the Sedins or any other free agents, we immediately have to move out players or lose them for nothing on waivers.

This is the blank canvas we start with...

Baertschi----Horvat----Boeser S1
Granlund-----Sutter ----Eriksson C1
Goldobin---Gagner---Virtanen S2
Leipsic--------Gaunce---Archibald C2
Boucher

Edler Stecher
MDZ Tanev
Hutton Gudbranson
Pouliot Biega


AHL - Pettersson, Gaudette, Dahlen, Gadjovich, Lind, Motte, Juolevi

Management constantly talks about putting the right "culture" in place and still being competitive. The roster above (sans Sedins) would get roasted alive. People desperately want to avoid the "losing culture" like Oilers (despite finishing in the basement three years running). We take the Sedins off the roster, we're probably worse than Arizona. What about that "culture" then?

Side Note: I think there's almost zero chance Elias is in the AHL.

I'd far, far, far rather have the Sedins come back for another seasons to help the young guys than the likes of Sutter, Eriksson, Gagner, or Granlund. They're all mostly deadweight. Or at the very least, easily replaceable.

What I would like to see:

Leipsic - Horvat - Boeser
Sedin - Sedin - Petterson
____ - Gaunce - Eriksson
Virtanen - _____ - Archibald

Eriksson is probably untradeable, so there's that. Blanks at wing can be filled with Baertschi (although I'd explore a trade there as well), Goldobin, Boucher, or Granlund as he's likely around. Maybe one of Dahlen or Gaudette surprises.

I'd desperately looking at moving at least one of Sutter/Gagner at putting the other in that 4C spot.

 

[m9]

It's a tough balance as there are so many guys that are tough to move, but you still need to have some turnover up front.

As a base, with lines being fairly interchangeable:

Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser
Sedin-Sedin-Eriksson
Leipsic-xxxx-Virtanen
Archibald-Sutter-xxxx
Gaunce (Biega as 8th dman/14th forward)

That has Granlund, Dorsett, Gagner, Boucher, Dowd, Goldobin, Jokinen and Motte as guys who were on the "roster" this year at some point not penned in for next year. It also only leaves two spots for some of those guys to fight with Petterson, Dahlen, Gaudette, and others.

I'm hoping that they don't just have Gagner and Granlund filling those two spots and call it a day, but we'll see.

 

[krutovsdonut]

what do folks think the chances are of the canucks signing a ufa dman this summer? it seems like something they would try and do. maybe de haan or cole.

 

[iceburg]

Not so concerned about the future of the forward group with Pettersson, Gaudette, Dahlen, Lind, potentially adding to Horvat and Boeser.

But what about that defense…

In two years (i.e. starting 20/21 season):

• I expect that Tanev will still be here. He will be 30 years old at the start of the season.
• Del Zotto, Edler and Biega will likely all be gone.
• If the aim is to have a highly competitive team, Gudbranson will be in a 7/8 role.
• Again, with the focus on being a highly competitive team, I believe it’s fair to assume that only one of Pouliot, Hutton, Stecher will be contributing. For argument sake let’s say it’s Stecher.

So, how do they fill out the other spots, again, to be a competitive team. Assuming Juolevi ends up being a top 4 D-man and Brisebois is mostly an AHLer you have:

XXXX – Tanev
Juolevi-XXXX
XXXX-Stecher
Gudbranson
Biega clone

One of Dahlin, Bouchard, or Boqvist could come this draft. But my sense is they will still need to find two more top 6 D-men, one of which will have to be a top-4.