Roster and Fantasy GM Thread: Pre-Draft Silly Season

[Addison Rae]

So, it sounds like we agree. He's a bottom pairing guy. Do you think he has any additional upside?

I don’t think he’s a bottom pairing defender, I think he’s a replacement level skill defender similar to Clendenning or Wiercioch.

Fine on a rebuilding team but absolutely not a type of defender you want on a contenders top pairing.

 

[iceburg]

I don’t think he’s a bottom pairing defender, I think he’s a replacement level skill defender similar to Clendenning or Wiercioch.

Fine on a rebuilding team but absolutely not a type of defender you want on a contenders top pairing.

Ok.. then we disagree. I still don't understand why the assessment other than "he was cast off by his previous teams". I don't buy the argument.

 

[rune74]

Poulliot is currently a 5 or 6 dman, who makes some good passes and some...not so good. He needs to be stronger on the boards, but can also make some controlled exits.

 

[Addison Rae]

Ok.. then we disagree. I still don't understand why the assessment other than "he was cast off by his previous teams". I don't buy the argument.

Huh your only argument is skewed analytics that were completely debunked by my comparisons to Wiercioch and Clendenning. These types of players will always be positive possession players in ridiculously easy deployment.

Pouliot has ~70% offensive zone starts to start the season and looked good because he was playing in pillow soft minutes after that he got absolutely destroyed when he became a strength on strength and looked liks one of the worst defenders in the NHL in that stretch.

He’s bleeding goals against while playing the easy minutes among defenders on the team is that not alarming? A guy that couldn’t crack a NHL roster for 5 years do you act like that’s not an issue, if he had a good track record you could give him a benefit of the doubt but he doesn’t.

It’s hilarious that you don’t consider this stuff an apt argument yet are holding on to garbage corsi stats without any context.

 

[iceburg]

Huh your only argument is skewed analytics that were completely debunked by my comparisons to Wiercioch and Clendenning. These types of players will always be positive possession players in ridiculously easy deployment.

Pouliot has ~70% offensive zone starts to start the season and looked good because he was playing in pillow soft minutes after that he got absolutely destroyed when he became a strength on strength and looked liks one of the worst defenders in the NHL in that stretch.

He’s bleeding goals against while playing the easy minutes among defenders on the team is that not alarming? A guy that couldn’t crack a NHL roster for 5 years do you act like that’s not an issue, if he had a good track record you could give him a benefit of the doubt but he doesn’t.

It’s hilarious that you don’t consider this stuff an apt argument yet are holding on to garbage corsi stats without any context.

Hyperbole isn't useful. Come back when you can be more measured.

 

[Addison Rae]

Hyperbole isn't useful. Come back when you can be more measured.

What a colossal waste of time you’ve proved to be.

What a joke complains about no people making good arguments yet ignores them to nitpick language.

Sounds like another poster I know...

 

[ginner classic]

We need to move out some forwards for right D.


Andersson - Need scoring wingers
McKeown - Need scoring
Jokiharju - No idea why they would part with him.
Timmins/Makar/Meloche - Need depth forwards, left side D
Honka - Need forward prospects
Brook/Fleury - Center, scoring forwards
Fabbro - NHL ready left D
Roy - Change of scenery trade
Foote/Spencer - NHL ready top 4 right D/Depth forward on a good cap hit
Liljegren - Ditto

..............................

Depending what we come out of the draft with, we may need a few of them. I also hope we can sneak Durzi in the 3rd round.

 

[MS]

Hyperbole isn't useful. Come back when you can be more measured.

His statement is 100% correct.

Pouliot looked marginally ok early in some of the softest minutes for any defender in the NHL, and then was absolutely obliterated when injuries forced us to give him more normal minutes. Like, his GA/60 is literally almost DOUBLE that of Biega while playing softer minutes.

He's a poor man's Cam Barker and one of the worst players in the NHL.

 

[iceburg]

His statement is 100% correct.

Pouliot looked marginally ok early in some of the softest minutes for any defender in the NHL, and then was absolutely obliterated when injuries forced us to give him more normal minutes. Like, his GA/60 is literally almost DOUBLE that of Biega while playing softer minutes.

He's a poor man's Cam Barker and one of the worst players in the NHL.

It may be a good point. It's just hard to find the point among the extreme language.
I haven't looked at Pouliot's oZone starts throughout the season. He's at about 60% now. Does that mean he's getting 50/50 now?

 

[Intangibos]

Is Edler playing like he wants to get traded?

Also, how the hell can anyone think Pouliot is a 5-6 defender. Do you think even a middle of the road playoff team would have Pouliot in their top 6? I don't think they would even want him as an extra.

 

[m9]

By what metric? I would like to understand why people think Pouliot isn't that good. Again, I don't think he's a top 4 right now but I see him as a legitimate NHLer that could get better.

On the line-up...Del Zotto needs to go. He's ok but he really is only holding back the development of other players. I for one believe that Hutton will rebound. He's going through a head issue right now and once he realizes the physical skill he has really can work in this league, he will rebound. Edler should be traded next TDL...he better waive. I respect what he has done for the team but, if he stays, he will be holding back the rebuild. I believe Juolevi will be ready next year. Whether that is in October or January is yet to be determined.

He's not a top 4 guy, agreed. So he's a 5th or 6th guy on a brutal defense, which probably means he's a fringe NHLer on a half-decent team.

 

[racerjoe]

Even on our team I have Pouliot at 7. I have Tanev, Edler, Del Zato, Biega Hutton and Stecher above him. Not that all of those guys are great, hell I think 4 of them are bottom pairing, but that just shows how bad he really is. He has a few nice parts to his game, but it doesn't make up for what he lacks.

 

[iceburg]

He's not a top 4 guy, agreed. So he's a 5th or 6th guy on a brutal defense, which probably means he's a fringe NHLer on a half-decent team.

Among the top 8 Canucks D-men:
18 min TOI/g: 5th
59% oZone starts: 1st
17 Pts: 2nd
4.2 CF% rel: 1st
5.4 FF% rel: 1st
90 Blks: 3rd
54 Hits: 6th
49 GV: 7th
19 TK: 3rd

Of course these stats can be looked at in different ways depending on your bias. His points, CF% rel, and FF% rel show, when given the opportunity, he can generate offense. But it's a fair position to take that they are skewed by oZone starts. His career CF% rel is 3.2 with 52.4% oZone starts. He's decent at blocking shots but doesn't hit very much. His takeaways are middle of the pack but he gives the puck away a lot.
At this stage of his carer, Pouliot looks like a guy who can be decent offensively but has some challenges when it comes to defending. None of these numbers scream "worst player in the league". It seems to me they say bottom pairing D-man that leans towards offense.

 

[sting101]

Among the top 8 Canucks D-men:
18 min TOI/g: 5th
59% oZone starts: 1st
17 Pts: 2nd
4.2 CF% rel: 1st
5.4 FF% rel: 1st
90 Blks: 3rd
54 Hits: 6th
49 GV: 7th
19 TK: 3rd

Of course these stats can be looked at in different ways depending on your bias. His points, CF% rel, and FF% rel show, when given the opportunity, he can generate offense. But it's a fair position to take that they are skewed by oZone starts. His career CF% rel is 3.2 with 52.4% oZone starts. He's decent at blocking shots but doesn't hit very much. His takeaways are middle of the pack but he gives the puck away a lot.
At this stage of his carer, Pouliot looks like a guy who can be decent offensively but has some challenges when it comes to defending. None of these numbers scream "worst player in the league". It seems to me they say bottom pairing D-man that leans towards offense.

If you take out the 2 month stretch between Dec 10th and Feb 10th where he was absolutely dreadful Pouliot has been a nice find for a 4th round pick. Pre Dec 10th. (27gp 2g 8a 10pt -3 ) and post. (11gp 0g 6a 6pt +6) He transitions the puck nicely but his work ethic along the boards and in front of his net needs to be way better.

I still think he's got something to give (he's only just turned 24) but without a doubt he needs to compete at a much higher level and bring consistency. The 2 month stretch where he looked like he belonged in the ECHL happened and can't happen anymore.

Also Corsi and Fenwick numbers without added context to situational usage and comp is basically a joke.

 

[vancityluongo]

http://theprovince.com/sports/hocke...8-secret-sauce-and-the-showdown-with-friedman

BEST WOULD YA?
I did hear a team — or teams — called in recent weeks to inquire on Eriksson’s availability via trade.
Impossible you say?
Was told Montreal was one, which would add up because the Habs were in on Eriksson when he was a free agent and their current head coach is Claude Julien who just happens to be the head coach.
As the story goes, Montreal wasn’t going to do anything unless the Canucks retained salary.

Two thoughts:

1) lmao Bergevin

2) Eriksson (no retention) for Alzner (no retention) ?

 

[Bleach Clean]

The Provies: The Stretcher, the JV18 secret sauce and the showdown with Friedman





Two thoughts:

1) lmao Bergevin

2) Eriksson (no retention) for Alzner (no retention) ?

"Or teams", so not just Bergevin, possibly. Great to hear. Obviously, trading him without retention would be the way to go.

If Bergevin is foolish enough to want Eriksson, may as well ask for Galchenyuk in return. It's not like the trade makes sense from the outset anyway.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Is Edler playing like he wants to get traded?

this is something i have wondered in passing. the guy seems to be stepping up for no clear reason. i doubt it, but if you want to go one step further down that rabbit hole, maybe the sedins have told him they will not be back so he finally wants out.

 

[krutovsdonut]

The Provies: The Stretcher, the JV18 secret sauce and the showdown with Friedman



Two thoughts:

1) lmao Bergevin

2) Eriksson (no retention) for Alzner (no retention) ?

amazing.

 

[krutovsdonut]

If you take out the 2 month stretch between Dec 10th and Feb 10th where he was absolutely dreadful Pouliot has been a nice find for a 4th round pick. Pre Dec 10th. (27gp 2g 8a 10pt -3 ) and post. (11gp 0g 6a 6pt +6) He transitions the puck nicely but his work ethic along the boards and in front of his net needs to be way better.

I still think he's got something to give (he's only just turned 24) but without a doubt he needs to compete at a much higher level and bring consistency. The 2 month stretch where he looked like he belonged in the ECHL happened and can't happen anymore.

Also Corsi and Fenwick numbers without added context to situational usage and comp is basically a joke.

i am skeptical anything we see of pouliot right now is a mirage. he hasn't reformed his sloppy defensive game since december, the team has just caught up with him.

canucks right now are so sloppy defensively they cannot hold a lead or play even up. they are best when down a couple of goals with the other team trying to play defensively when the canucks can try and go on a sustained push. as soon as they tie it up or get ahead, the other team pushes back and the defence breaks down again.

so to the extent we look good it's because we are behind all the time often by a couple of goals where they can play high risk. pouliot should thrive offensively in that kind of game. he also needs a contract so he has a big incentive to try and put up some numbers.

 

[sting101]

i am skeptical anything we see of pouliot right now is a mirage. he hasn't reformed his sloppy defensive game since december, the team has just caught up with him.

canucks right now are so sloppy defensively they cannot hold a lead or play even up. they are best when down a couple of goals with the other team trying to play defensively when the canucks can try and go on a sustained push. as soon as they tie it up or get ahead, the other team pushes back and the defence breaks down again.

so to the extent we look good it's because we are behind all the time often by a couple of goals where they can play high risk. pouliot should thrive offensively in that kind of game. he also needs a contract so he has a big incentive to try and put up some numbers.

Yes i agree KDonut. I dont think the contract thing is that big a deal because he's at a stage of his career where he hasn't proven anything and could be dumped at anytime anyway. He's basically playing for a career.

As far as his play i see this as well. When the game is fast and free flowing he's usually pretty good but when good teams with relentless forecheckers and tight systems clamp down on things he's mostly a ticking time bomb.

Unlike most i still like the aquisition and gamble. He's entertaining and moves the puck nicely. For now he helps us tank and he either gets good in the next year or 2 or he goes as we improve.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Yes i agree KDonut. I dont think the contract thing is that big a deal because he's at a stage of his career where he hasn't proven anything and could be dumped at anytime anyway. He's basically playing for a career.

As far as his play i see this as well. When the game is fast and free flowing he's usually pretty good but when good teams with relentless forecheckers and tight systems clamp down on things he's mostly a ticking time bomb.

Unlike most i still like the aquisition and gamble. He's entertaining and moves the puck nicely. For now he helps us tank and he either gets good in the next year or 2 or he goes as we improve.

yup. he's still an unproven age gap gamble and he's only playing because of possible upside and room on the roster. i don't see two years to make good. if he doesn't show it soon his career is gone, and he will have to reinvent himself or go overseas.

i don't mind the age gap gambles, and i expect the hit rate on them to be low, but it does suck that none of them other than baertschi has graduated to sustained nhl regular. i hate the notion that you only ever get what you paid for. i am a bargain hunter by nature.

 

[ginner classic]

http://theprovince.com/sports/hocke...8-secret-sauce-and-the-showdown-with-friedman





Two thoughts:

1) lmao Bergevin

2) Eriksson (no retention) for Alzner (no retention) ?

Can we also throw in Gudbranson and Sutter?

 

[Addison Rae]

It may be a good point. It's just hard to find the point among the extreme language.
I haven't looked at Pouliot's oZone starts throughout the season. He's at about 60% now. Does that mean he's getting 50/50 now?

It’s hard to find to understand what pillow soft minutes are? My lord dude you can’t possibly be serious.

Again Patrick Wiercioch has a season two years ago where he had one of the fullest HERO charts in the NHL where he played in a similar offensive situation to Pouliot is now. You don’t seem to grasp all these borederline skills defenders are all capable of doing what Pouliot has in easy minutes and they all have track records of doing it.

In the same offensive zone starts and deployment as Pouliot had this year Patrick Wiercioch had the best CFRel% on a team that had the best defender of this generation. His CFRel% was also much better than Pouliot’s this year.

Adam Clendening when he was on the team had the 3rd best CF Rel% on the Canucks defensive core behind Edler and Tanev who had the best season of their careers.

These are the type of players Pouliot compares to, he was a guy that looked really good with 70 offensive zone starts which is a situation where pretty much any replacement level skill guy would look good then when he started to become a strength on strength player he was one of the worst players in the NHL in a ~20 game stretch he had something like 2 points and was ~-20.

There’s zero excuses for a guy to be playing in the easiest deployment among defenders on a team who is still bleeding goals against, that’s a sign that a defender isn’t really good at defending.

 

[kanuck87]

Feel like if Virtanen can maintain his consistency, he would be a good fit with Horvat and Leipsic, which would free up Boeser to potentially play with Pettersson and maybe Baertschi, whom I feel are better fits with Boeser's style of play.

Leipsic - Horvat - Virtanen
Baertschi - Pettersson - Boeser
Archibald - Sutter - Gaudette
Gaunce - Dowd - Eriksson

Bottom two lines capable of effectively eating up defensive zone starts to give the top two lines opportunities in the offensive zone.

 

[Addison Rae]

Sam Gagner is on a 3 year contract