Line Combos: Roster 2021-2022

[LowLefty]

The post I replied to, as with every post I've replied in that manner to, said Wheeler's game has completely fallen off. That claim doesn't hold to scrutiny so far this season.

Could the CDW line completely fail? Sure, maybe Wheeler throws off the chemistry. But the fact that people are so averse to throwing Wheeler on that line seem to have less to do with chemistry and more to do with a strong dislike of Wheeler.

Someone even said that the line would be less effective because Wheeler is too slow, when he's replacing Svechnikov. Who probably is our slowest skater.

Thanks for clarifying - I agree that Wheeler has not fallen off and is playing decent hockey right now.
I was off on a different tangent - more about how he could impact the line in the wrong way if he is not prepared to do some of the things Schech was doing (as covered in an earlier post)

 

[LowLefty]

agreed. wheeler can do everything svech can do on that line, and is a far better producer, more skilled, faster etc.

Probably could - hope he does
We'll see soon enough

 

[Adam da bomb]

Repeating it for the people in the back: Wheeler is #4 among forwards on our team in xGF% this season. Away from Scheifele, he's second after PLD.

Kind of shows how xgf can be misleading if it shows Wheeler is playing better than connor.

 

[ecolad]

agreed. wheeler can do everything svech can do on that line, and is a far better producer, more skilled, faster etc.

The thing is - it's quite clear coach has clearly asked Svetch to strongly emphasize providing support for PLD and Connor, rather than looking for scoring opportunities. Svetch is fully focussed on playing the direct style of hockey favored by PLD and perhaps even Connor, and in so doing, has stayed along the boards where he operates with a surprising degree of physicality for a player of his stature. Svetch seems to function well (almost intuitively)with PLD on the forecheck and in down-low grunt work and cycle work when they get puck possession - something that may be rooted in their pre-pro experience. Svetch also has shown to be defensively aware, providing support for teammates in the offensive zone. He has also shown some surprisingly good judgment in his own end of the rink ,which has helped PLD and Connor exit reasonably well.

I'm guessing that , if this line were to stay together, for a reasonable period of time, they would get stronger as a unit. Particularly, if coach would loosen the reigns on Svetch a bit more and let his offensive instincts come into play.

I'm also guessing that Wheeler will not be able to adjust his game enough to provide the support to PLD and Connor - but we''ll just have to see.

This is not really a question of whether Wheeler or Svetch is the better player by stats comparison - it is a question of which player most effectively gets PLD to the pinnacle of his game and the line operating at top efficiency.

 

[DRW204]

great, and you think wheeler can't do exactly that, on top of that provide more?

it's funny, ppl on here bitch and complain about copp in the top-6 (not you exactly, rhetorical), but want svech over wheeler. just lol.

ppl on here complain about no speed, but want svechnikov who even at 10+ years younger than wheeler is not exactly a burner or quick footed probably still worse speed wise than Wheeler.

puck support lol.. did you just start watching the Jets this season? wheeler is fully adequate in doing this. Wheeler is still a top 2 option at RW on this team, and as long as it is not CSW, should be in the top-6

The thing is - it's quite clear coach has clearly asked Svetch to strongly emphasize providing support for PLD and Connor, rather than looking for scoring opportunities. Svetch is fully focussed on playing the direct style of hockey favored by PLD and perhaps even Connor, and in so doing, has stayed along the boards where he operates with a surprising degree of physicality for a player of his stature. Svetch seems to function well (almost intuitively)with PLD on the forecheck and in down-low grunt work and cycle work when they get puck possession - something that may be rooted in their pre-pro experience. Svetch also has shown to be defensively aware, providing support for teammates in the offensive zone. He has also shown some surprisingly good judgment in his own end of the rink ,which has helped PLD and Connor exit reasonably well.

I'm guessing that , if this line were to stay together, for a reasonable period of time, they would get stronger as a unit. Particularly, if coach would loosen the reigns on Svetch a bit more and let his offensive instincts come into play.

I'm also guessing that Wheeler will not be able to adjust his game enough to provide the support to PLD and Connor - but we''ll just have to see.

This is not really a question of whether Wheeler or Svetch is the better player by stats comparison - it is a question of which player most effectively gets PLD to the pinnacle of his game and the line operating at top efficiency.

 

[Gil Fisher]

great, and you think wheeler can't do exactly that, on top of that provide more?

it's funny, ppl on here bitch and complain about copp in the top-6 (not you exactly, rhetorical), but want svech over wheeler. just lol.

ppl on here complain about no speed, but want svechnikov who even at 10+ years younger than wheeler is not exactly a burner or quick footed probably still worse speed wise than Wheeler.

puck support lol.. did you just start watching the Jets this season? wheeler is fully adequate in doing this. Wheeler is still a top 2 option at RW on this team, and as long as it is not CSW, should be in the top-6

That's one thing I've noticed about Svech lately is his (lack of) speed. Wheeler is definitely fast than him, and I wouldn't put Wheeler at more than average for an NHLer.

The nice thing about Svech with 81-80 though is it strengthens your third line. It would be nice to have 25-17-26 there when Stats is back. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing 93 up with 81-80. He's faster and has a better shot. I think he would be good there. Ideally, 4th line would be Harkins-Gus-Svech.

 

[ecolad]

great, and you think wheeler can't do exactly that, on top of that provide more?

it's funny, ppl on here bitch and complain about copp in the top-6 (not you exactly, rhetorical), but want svech over wheeler. just lol.

ppl on here complain about no speed, but want svechnikov who even at 10+ years younger than wheeler is not exactly a burner or quick footed probably still worse speed wise than Wheeler.

puck support lol.. did you just start watching the Jets this season? wheeler is fully adequate in doing this. Wheeler is still a top 2 option at RW on this team, and as long as it is not CSW, should be in the top-6

Hmmm - seems like I've triggered the childish response that people resort to when they have literally nothing of value to offer concerning the subject at hand. Whatever happened to polite discourse.

There really is not much substance that I can respond to in your post, friend. Buncha "people bitch and complain" assertions and of course your unwavering assertion that Wheeler can (and presumably will) do whatever Svetch does, and then more. Such approach certainly keeps any analytical discussion of how best to make up the lines at the lowest level doesn't it?

By the by, optimizing one line to be Connor/PLD/ Svetch does not automatically mean that Wheeler would no longer be a top 6 winger @RW. It's almost a certainty that coach would put him with Scheifele and hope that Ehlers can complement the pairing. If memory serves, they were quite effective in limited appearances in past years.

 

[GumbyCan2]

The important first step is that Wheeler is now separated from Scheifele, which I believe will help both of them.

The next step is to try Wheeler with different combinations on the second line. Despite his ixG/60 I haven't seen a good Wheeler very often this year. But he is a notoriously slow starter, so deserves a longer trial to show his stuff on the top-6 with different partners.

The final and hardest step for Maurice will be to demote him to the third line if the old body just can't keep up in the next number of games.

When Stats is back healthy, could see a line of Ves(l), Stats (C) Wheels(r). Never know? Vet experience and skill, savvy, allowing Ves to work hard and be in the play and maybe finish on a few opportunities S & W can provide, giving the "kid" some confidence and further his drive?
Others could fill-out as KC-PLD-Svech, and AC-MS-NE and JH or DT-Lowry-Nash.

 

[GumbyCan2]

great, and you think wheeler can't do exactly that, on top of that provide more?

it's funny, ppl on here bitch and complain about copp in the top-6 (not you exactly, rhetorical), but want svech over wheeler. just lol.

ppl on here complain about no speed, but want svechnikov who even at 10+ years younger than wheeler is not exactly a burner or quick footed probably still worse speed wise than Wheeler.

puck support lol.. did you just start watching the Jets this season? wheeler is fully adequate in doing this. Wheeler is still a top 2 option at RW on this team, and as long as it is not CSW, should be in the top-6

I liken it to a desire to keep a line together that is producing and reeling and competing, game-in-game out , for chemistry and cohesiveness. Replacing Wheeler in there, to me is potentially disruptive to overall cohesiveness just to appease coaches tendency preferences in getting the captain more minutes and playing with top scorers.

 

[bennylundholm]

When Stats is back healthy, could see a line of Ves(l), Stats (C) Wheels(r). Never know? Vet experience and skill, savvy, allowing Ves to work hard and be in the play and maybe finish on a few opportunities S & W can provide, giving the "kid" some confidence and further his drive?
Others could fill-out as KC-PLD-Svech, and AC-MS-NE and JH or DT-Lowry-Nash.

Makes sense, but my money is on Wheeler staying with PLD and KFC for the next 20 games.

 

[Jack7222]

I don't get the Stas - Lowry - Wheeler talk, personally. To me that looks like two playmakers and a grinder... seems like a waste.

I'd like to see Wheeler stick with Connor and Dubois for a while and see if we can get offense out of the Lowry line with Stastny and Vesa or something.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Hmmm - seems like I've triggered the childish response that people resort to when they have literally nothing of value to offer concerning the subject at hand. Whatever happened to polite discourse.

There really is not much substance that I can respond to in your post, friend. Buncha "people bitch and complain" assertions and of course your unwavering assertion that Wheeler can (and presumably will) do whatever Svetch does, and then more. Such approach certainly keeps any analytical discussion of how best to make up the lines at the lowest level doesn't it?

By the by, optimizing one line to be Connor/PLD/ Svetch does not automatically mean that Wheeler would no longer be a top 6 winger @RW. It's almost a certainty that coach would put him with Scheifele and hope that Ehlers can complement the pairing. If memory serves, they were quite effective in limited appearances in past years.

Very good points, response! 2 thumbs up.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Makes sense, but my money is on Wheeler staying with PLD and KFC for the next 20 games.

You're probably right. Hope it works out and team keeps on rolling, hey.

 

[LowLefty]

Wheeler played well last night - if he keeps the energy level up and continues to play fast, I'll walk my opinion back.
Maybe Wheeler needed this change to get his mojo back - this could work out well.

 

[KingBogo]

I thought Maurice's post practice interview was an interesting watch. He spent a lot of time discussing his roster decisions mostly on defense but also Connor and PLD as a pairing. If you are interested here is the link.

 

[voyageur]

When Stastny comes back into the lineup I'd like to see Maurice dial it up, because some things are working in terms of attack.

I'd go with

Connor-Dubois-Svetchnikov
Copp-Scheifele-Ehlers
Harkins-Lowry-Wheeler
Vesalainen-Stastny and whoever wants to double on that line, making it a 4 line attack.

Beaulieu in as the 7th defenseman to boost our PK. Bench leader, and a guy who will drop the gloves when the heavier teams come up on the schedule.

Toninato and Nash sitting out. Eventually bring up Gustafsson to for the 4th line.

 

[gojetsgo]

our 5on5 game drastically improved when we went back to four lines, instead of instantly going back to 11-7 why not try vesa, svech, harkins or stastny before having to play an extra d-man 2-3 mins a night

 

[voyageur]

our 5on5 game drastically improved when we went back to four lines, instead of instantly going back to 11-7 why not try vesa, svech, harkins or stastny before having to play an extra d-man 2-3 mins a night

What's the effect of Vesalainen-Toninato-Nash, you add Stastny to that mix, one comes out. More than likely Harkins goes down to the 4th.

I don't think either of Nash or Toninato will have a drastic impact on our 5 on 5 game, and the stats more or less support this. Sneak a couple more shifts of Connor or Ehlers, or Scheif or Dubois, with Stastny and you have a legit 4 line attack in my opinion. Not 4 lines, with 3 attacking.

If Beaulieu improves the PK, and the PK is near the bottom of the league, and cost the team last game, why not have a player who has a positive impact, impact the game?

I mean it's not like the very same model won a Stanley Cup just recently.

 

[bennylundholm]

Kind of shows how xgf can be misleading if it shows Wheeler is playing better than connor.

Great point.
Likely need to repeat it for those who swear by analytics over anything else.
Dave Tippett had a good presser a couple weeks referring to the analytics crowd as not fully in tune with reality.

 

[bennylundholm]

When Stastny comes back into the lineup I'd like to see Maurice dial it up, because some things are working in terms of attack.

I'd go with

Connor-Dubois-Svetchnikov
Copp-Scheifele-Ehlers
Harkins-Lowry-Wheeler
Vesalainen-Stastny and whoever wants to double on that line, making it a 4 line attack.

Beaulieu in as the 7th defenseman to boost our PK. Bench leader, and a guy who will drop the gloves when the heavier teams come up on the schedule.

Toninato and Nash sitting out. Eventually bring up Gustafsson to for the 4th line.

Fully agree.
I love the first two lines.
And I believe a line of Wheeler, Lowry and whoever could be extremely effective
I’d consider putting Perfetti with them after Christmas.

 

[gojetsgo]

What's the effect of Vesalainen-Toninato-Nash, you add Stastny to that mix, one comes out. More than likely Harkins goes down to the 4th.

I don't think either of Nash or Toninato will have a drastic impact on our 5 on 5 game, and the stats more or less support this. Sneak a couple more shifts of Connor or Ehlers, or Scheif or Dubois, with Stastny and you have a legit 4 line attack in my opinion. Not 4 lines, with 3 attacking.

If Beaulieu improves the PK, and the PK is near the bottom of the league, and cost the team last game, why not have a player who has a positive impact, impact the game?

I mean it's not like the very same model won a Stanley Cup just recently.

please don't use tampa as an example of it working they had hedman who could carry anyone in his 30 mins a night. when we went back to 12-6 our 5on5 play was night and day and instead of instantly going back to beaulieu so he can play 2-3 mins a night we should try something else first. it's not like our pk was even good going 11-7 and we spend the majority of the game 5on5 so why hurt the best part of our game to get slightly better on the pk especially when there are other things to try first

 

[ps241]

I thought Maurice's post practice interview was an interesting watch. He spent a lot of time discussing his roster decisions mostly on defense but also Connor and PLD as a pairing. If you are interested here is the link.

Yea this is a pretty solid breakdown by Paul on some key areas that match up with the eye test. Thanks for the heads up I didn’t see this one.

 

[voyageur]

please don't use tampa as an example of it working they had hedman who could carry anyone in his 30 mins a night. when we went back to 12-6 our 5on5 play was night and day and instead of instantly going back to beaulieu so he can play 2-3 mins a night we should try something else first. it's not like our pk was even good going 11-7 and we spend the majority of the game 5on5 so why hurt the best part of our game to get slightly better on the pk especially when there are other things to try first

I don't know if we are hurting the best part of our game when the Jets are 6-1-2 with 7 d-men formation, and 3-3-2 with 12-6. Maybe analytically there is some kind of difference, but some of those losses are because the PK didn't do the job. That's where Beaulieu helps in my opinion, the same way Luke Schenn played on the Lightning. Yes they had a Norris d-man but I'd say 5 on 5 the Jets have 6 competent d-men. Maybe a player like Gustafsson who could help the PK up front might be a bigger addition, I would be behind that, but current roster doesn't allow for his promotion, without a demotion. And I think if you played Stats 4th line, got PP/PK time out of him you might get more than we do out of our current 4th line. I'm not convinced Nash or Toninato are the solution for a 4 line attack, early in the season. We can disagree on this one.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I don't know if we are hurting the best part of our game when the Jets are 6-1-2 with 7 d-men formation, and 3-3-2 with 12-6. Maybe analytically there is some kind of difference, but some of those losses are because the PK didn't do the job. That's where Beaulieu helps in my opinion, the same way Luke Schenn played on the Lightning. Yes they had a Norris d-man but I'd say 5 on 5 the Jets have 6 competent d-men. Maybe a player like Gustafsson who could help the PK up front might be a bigger addition, I would be behind that, but current roster doesn't allow for his promotion, without a demotion. And I think if you played Stats 4th line, got PP/PK time out of him you might get more than we do out of our current 4th line. I'm not convinced Nash or Toninato are the solution for a 4 line attack, early in the season. We can disagree on this one.

I’d disagree about toninato and would play him over Harkins. Linking him with Nash seems wrong.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Not that wheeler hasn’t played well on the first line, but the chemistry doesn’t seem the same with him there over Svetch.

I hope either wheeler develops chemistry with PLD and KC or they go back to what worked, to keep that line scoring and being dominant.

To my eyes it was simply a better line with Svetch up front and left Wheeler to improve a lower line. Was better for the whole team imo.