News Article: Roenick: Sharks' Marleau not one of 'locker room favorites'

[Led Zappa]

I know this won't be popular with Marleau lovers and stat aficionados, but these are my general complaints about the player who has been the 2nd highest paid player for several seasons... The consistency of effort at a high level is just not there for my liking.

This.

And yes, years after Marleau retires many will look back at the stats and use those stats to ignore the above.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

When someone can actually quantify effort reasonably and put it in an argument, I'll give a crap what anyone thinks about someone's effort level.

 

[Alwalys]

given how many times injuries were a major part of our undoing, it's hard to say that managing your body might not be as right a call as breaking it.

 

[pappaf2]

It's not about the droughts in scoring, those happen to everyone. It's the, not continuing to do the little things and going to the dirty areas even when he may not be lighting the lamp. As mentioned above, it's the willingness to go the "extra mile".


I agree patty will be missed when he is gone. He is a great talent that has produced a great many points in his career.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It's not about the droughts in scoring, those happen to everyone. It's the, not continuing to do the little things and going to the dirty areas even when he may not be lighting the lamp. As mentioned above, it's the willingness to go the "extra mile".


I agree patty will be missed when he is gone. He is a great talent that has produced a great many points in his career.

And it's a weak argument because if you dissect the games of every individual, they all have faults in certain details and they all don't go the extra mile all the time or go to the dirty areas all the time. Mostly because it's impossible.

This all stems from some people having unrealistic expectations of Marleau and him not living up to said unrealistic expectation so they point to some weak effort issue and project that onto him and even to some extent like Roenick, try to drive a wedge in things.

 

[Sharksrule04]

When someone can actually quantify effort reasonably and put it in an argument, I'll give a crap what anyone thinks about someone's effort level.

On Sharks HF board, Lack of effort = lack of scoresheet production in games 5-7 of a playoff series.

I don't buy in to that lack of effort crap either, but I think people blame Marleau of it because they know his speed and if he's not blazing down the ice then he is coasting and not giving full effort. That's the only thing I can think of because everyone on the team and in the league has had slumps, so it can't be that.

 

[Alwalys]

given how many times injuries were a major part of our undoing, it's hard to say that managing your body might not be as right a call as breaking it.

and to go further on this, marleau himself was the major injury that undid arguably the best Sharks team ever. so having been through that, that might have had a significant effect on how he approaches the game.

 

[Mafoofoo]

Who cares what Roenick thinks. Dudes has a bigger grudge against him than people who've been cheated on have against their spouses.

 

[Gilligans Island]

When someone can actually quantify effort reasonably and put it in an argument, I'll give a crap what anyone thinks about someone's effort level.

Oh Patty - since you posted, you do give a crap! ;-)


For the stats folks, is there a stat for board battles? That would be an interesting one to track. It could/should even be weighted based on opponent.

Then again, if Hedican's right, that Marleau doesn't engage enough in board battles, then his stat may be skewed.

 

[Trojan35]

How ridiculously, generationally talented do people think Patrick Marleau is in order to believe that a guy who has averaged 32 goals per 82 games since the 2005 lockout, was 2nd in the entire NHL in goals from 2008 to 2011 (4th from 2008 to 2014), has scored more playoff goals than any other player since he entered the league, is top 30 all time in playoff goals and has won two Olympic gold medals as one of Canada's forward ice time leaders is a version of Marleau that isn't trying hard? Do people seriously think he'd be smoking Ovechkin in the goal scoring race every year if he actually gave a crap? The expectations of Marleau necessary to believe a player with his production over the years isn't trying hard enough are patently insane.

Well said. You don't battle through as many injuries and hit the weight room enough to be the fastest player on the team well into your thirties because you don't give a ****. This board for some reason thinks Marleau would be Crosby or Ovechkin if he worked harder, and I just don't see that. His shot and vision have never been at that level, and he was rightfully selected behind JT.

 

[Thepainter]

On Sharks HF board, Lack of effort = lack of scoresheet production in games 5-7 of a playoff series.

I don't buy in to that lack of effort crap either, but I think people blame Marleau of it because they know his speed and if he's not blazing down the ice then he is coasting and not giving full effort. That's the only thing I can think of because everyone on the team and in the league has had slumps, so it can't be that.

Or maybe some of us base our opinions on what we see with our eyes and not what's on the score sheet.

We watch as he shies away from contact, as he just dumps it into a corner rather than try to make a play with the puck, as he pulls up on hits that should be made. We watch him constantly pick the easiest possible shot time and time again, striking the goaltender directly in the chest as if it might magically go through all of that equipment. It might be his body language that radiates "I really don't care and would rather be 20 other places right now".

I hate Marleau. I think he is lazy and a waste of talent. He could have been a superstar yet decides to mail it in time after time. I also tend to think Roenick was frustrated by this as well and is the reason he went off on Marleau.

But I know you guys, from behind your computers, probably know what goes on in the locker room better than somebody who was his teammate.

 

[Sharksfan83]

Roenick has stated before that he believes that Marleau is a supremely talented player.. He just thinks he wastes it.. It's really the same as what a lot of fans think also..

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Or maybe some of us base our opinions on what we see with our eyes and not what's on the score sheet.

We watch as he shies away from contact, as he just dumps it into a corner rather than try to make a play with the puck, as he pulls up on hits that should be made. We watch him constantly pick the easiest possible shot time and time again, striking the goaltender directly in the chest as if it might magically go through all of that equipment. It might be his body language that radiates "I really don't care and would rather be 20 other places right now".

I hate Marleau. I think he is lazy and a waste of talent. He could have been a superstar yet decides to mail it in time after time. I also tend to think Roenick was frustrated by this as well and is the reason he went off on Marleau.

But I know you guys, from behind your computers, probably know what goes on in the locker room better than somebody who was his teammate.

The last bit is pretending like Roenick is the only guy who has ever talked about Marleau. If Marleau was lazy and mailed it in time after time, he'd have been out of the league by now. Lazy players don't play in the NHL at 36.

But you're going to focus and buy into anything that is shown as a detriment to the player because of your hate for him. You're going to scoff at anyone with a different opinion. The reality is that you're the one with the problem expecting him to be a superstar when he was never capable of that. He was never capable of being someone like Crosby or Ovechkin or anyone like that. He doesn't have that kind of talent and vision. It has nothing to do with trying harder. It has everything to do with talent level and vision level. And Roenick's no different just because he was in the locker room for a couple years a long time ago. He's just as capable of being out of whack with expectations as anyone else. There's a reason why nobody has brought Roenick in to help run a team or seek out talent.

You know who did mail it in and was just about of the league at 36? Roenick before DW gave him one last chance to stop screwing it up.

 

[matt trick]

I can see some of the young guys not getting him, as he is such a quiet, focused guy, but aside from Pavelski (who defended him during the first round of this year's rumors) and Couture, I just can't see anyone on the team that really matters, having an issue with him.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

Mind-boggling that someone can be a Sharks fan and actively hate a player synonymous with the franchise. You're just cheering for laundry at that point.

 

[Bizz]

Mind-boggling that someone can be a Sharks fan and actively hate a player synonymous with the franchise. You're just cheering for laundry at that point.

maybe because as fans we have standards we hold players to.

-13 (worst on the team) & 2 points in his last (what, 10 games?) is unacceptable for a player of his caliber & contract size no matter what the rest of the team is accomplishing. Not to mention stuff that doesn't show up on the score sheet, such as all his defensive mistakes, coasting, terrible passing, lax defensive coverage, the list goes on.

Marleau hasn't played at an elite level since maybe 2007. He became way too complacent under McLellan and his game has suffered past the point of no return. Anyone who is a fan of good hockey rather than a teal-glasses wearing homer knows this by now.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

maybe because as fans we have standards we hold players to.

-13 (worst on the team) & 2 points in his last (what, 10 games?) is unacceptable for a player of his caliber & contract size no matter what the rest of the team is accomplishing. Not to mention stuff that doesn't show up on the score sheet, such as all his defensive mistakes, coasting, terrible passing, lax defensive coverage, the list goes on.

Marleau hasn't played at an elite level since maybe 2007. He became way too complacent under McLellan and his game has suffered past the point of no return. Anyone who is a fan of good hockey rather than a teal-glasses wearing homer knows this by now.

You could've said the same thing about Thornton in mid-November into December. The only reason why the minus is even there for him instead of Thornton is because Thornton is given better opportunities overall. But did you have these types of scathing remarks when Thornton was struggling? No. Do you even acknowledge the defensive issues that go with Thornton or the coasting he does or the fact that he is a selfish player when he forces a pass instead of taking a shot in a prime scoring area? The fact that he never digs in on a faceoff even if it's a defensive situation? No? Then you're just biased about how you see things and it just depends on who you like and who you don't. Those opinions mean significantly less when one wants to talk about holding players to standards.

 

[Bizz]

yeah and Thornton from Mid-November to December was fighting off the effects of a concussion.

Marleau's struggles have gone on longer (like, 2-3 seasons now) and without injury.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

yeah and Thornton from Mid-November to December was fighting off the effects of a concussion.

Marleau's struggles have gone on longer (like, 2-3 seasons now) and without injury.

The concussion was mere speculation and if it were true is still just an excuse. Marleau's struggles aren't even anything you can actually quantify reasonably. Having a minus doesn't mean he's struggling. Him having a point drought is standard for his career. That isn't some revelation. You can't even recognize what an actual defensive mistake is and if you tried to apply any standard for that, you'd have a hard time finding anyone on this team better at that part of the game than Marleau...and it sure as hell isn't Thornton. If it's been 2-3 seasons now, that includes a 33 goal campaign so if you have higher expectations than that, that's your problem.

 

[pappaf2]

There are two types of patty marleau fans:

Those that feel he is always giving his best effort and his dips in his play are caused by bad luck or something similar.

Those that think he doesn't put forward his best effort on a consistent enough basis and that leads to his play not being its best.

 

[Jwec]

You could've said the same thing about Thornton in mid-November into December. The only reason why the minus is even there for him instead of Thornton is because Thornton is given better opportunities overall. But did you have these types of scathing remarks when Thornton was struggling? No. Do you even acknowledge the defensive issues that go with Thornton or the coasting he does or the fact that he is a selfish player when he forces a pass instead of taking a shot in a prime scoring area? The fact that he never digs in on a faceoff even if it's a defensive situation? No? Then you're just biased about how you see things and it just depends on who you like and who you don't. Those opinions mean significantly less when one wants to talk about holding players to standards.

Thornton has our team leading +18 and Marleau has -13 which is the worst of our team. Of course Thornton has better linemates etc. but still that gap is too wide to explain with better opportunities overall.

I am not saying that Marleau isn't a good player or he sucks defensively (he still is great player and good defensively. Why would he be on our PK-unit if he wouldn't?) but Thornton is more important for this team and better player than Marleau. Also if I would say which one of these two effort level isn't 100% I would say Marleau. But that would be stupid because I am sure that Marleau wants to win as much as anyone else of the team but I am quite sure that Jumbo would do whatever it takes to win the cup this year. I think Jumbo really wants to win it and give it all on the playoffs if we likely are going to get there.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Thornton has our team leading +18 and Marleau has -13 which is the worst of our team. Of course Thornton has better linemates etc. but still that gap is too wide to explain with better opportunities overall.

I am not saying that Marleau isn't a good player or he sucks defensively (he still is great player and good defensively. Why would he be on our PK-unit if he wouldn't?) but Thornton is more important for this team and better player than Marleau. Also if I would say which one of these two effort level isn't 100% I would say Marleau. But that would be stupid because I am sure that Marleau wants to win as much as anyone else of the team but I am quite sure that Jumbo would do whatever it takes to win the cup this year. I think Jumbo really wants to win it and give it all on the playoffs if we likely are going to get there.

People say this about Jumbo and his effort yet still give him a pass on shooting the puck which even if you can point to a higher shot count, you can still see him on a regular basis passing up shooting opportunities. We can't just sit here and cut down someone's effort level if you're not going to do the same thing to everyone else. That whole player standards argument is weak just in general because people don't hold everyone to the same standards. They can't.

 

[CrypTic]

There are two types of patty marleau fans:

Those that feel he is always giving his best effort and his dips in his play are caused by bad luck or something similar.

Those that think he doesn't put forward his best effort on a consistent enough basis and that leads to his play not being its best.

I guess I don't count then.

I don't think Marleau always gives his best nor are all the dips in his play due to bad luck. I think that's a strawman bc I haven't seen ppl say that. Not even PF who is probably Marleau's biggest fan.

I think always giving your best and only having dips in your play be due to bad luck is a ridiculously high standard for any player (or anyone in any job). Patty slacks off sometimes. So do Thornton, Pavs, Burns, Couture, Vlasic, and any other player you can name. Maybe it's bc he's playing with an injury, a cold, after little sleep, a fight with his wife, a sick kid, being PO'd at linemates, being PO'd at DW, having an off day or brain fog that day, whatever.

Whether Marleau's play is consistent enough is debatable. I think it makes sense to talk about that even if ppl here are unlikely to ever agree about it.

 

[hohosaregood]

I guess I don't count then.

I don't think Marleau always gives his best nor are all the dips in his play due to bad luck. I think that's a strawman bc I haven't seen ppl say that. Not even PF who is probably Marleau's biggest fan.

I think always giving your best and only having dips in your play be due to bad luck is a ridiculously high standard for any player (or anyone in any job). Patty slacks off sometimes. So do Thornton, Pavs, Burns, Couture, Vlasic, and any other player you can name. Maybe it's bc he's playing with an injury, a cold, after little sleep, a fight with his wife, a sick kid, being PO'd at linemates, being PO'd at DW, having an off day or brain fog that day, whatever.

Whether Marleau's play is consistent enough is debatable. I think it makes sense to talk about that even if ppl here are unlikely to ever agree about it.

I'm kinda with you. I kind of think that at this point, we might be overrating Marleau's offensive abilities. He does a lot of things really well but I wouldn't say any part of his offensive skillset is great.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

He's a well rounded player with elite physical tools (size, speed etc) but he doesn't have an elite skillset. You don't score that many goals and points if you don't give a **** and or lazy. Maybe he's not one of the boys and not everyone's pal but as long as he's not a cancer...who cares.