RLR: Malkin could be No. 1 Pick

[sparkplug]

Ovechkin's allround game isn't rated by stats in the RSL. He is extremely strong, physical, fast, accelerates fast, lightning quick wrist shot and great hockey sense. There is noway in hell any scouts would have Malkin over Ovechkin.....well maybe Toronto or Vancouver.

If Vancouver took Ovechkin, they'd probably turn him into a third line checker or something.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

If Vancouver took Ovechkin, they'd probably turn him into a third line checker or something.

I know, that was my joke I know many canucks fans who don' really like their scouts.

 

[txpd]

I'm not an Ovechkin-hater by any stretch. I was just pointing out that people have the two in a dead heat, and there have been some comments made that suggest these two are close. Does this mean Ovechkin won't go number one? No.

But I would say that it means these two are on a level above the rest of the pack. Malkin has impressed enough different scouts to have some of them saying they might think about taking him number one.

Given the talents and abilities of Ovechkin, that is quite the compliment to Malkin.

read that stuff all you want. it makes pens fans feel better and works a good pysch job on caps fans, but the bottom line is that if the pittsburgh and washington suddenly swapped spots in the draft, the pens would choose ovechkin.

if "many scouts" are saying its a dead heat or that malkin "might" be the better player, its certainly not the majority opinion or else there would be some stories suggesting that the capitals were torn between the two or should be. so far i have seen no indication that there is any movement to move malkin to the top ranked spot.

 

[sparkplug]

I know, that was my joke I know many canucks fans who don' really like their scouts.

I don't know if it's the scouts or the coaches on the farm team. Right now, it seems like the Moose could screw up the developement of Gretzky.

 

[pittengineer]

They way I look at it is the pens and caps are in position to get 1 of the 2 great players in this draft. Both will be good players. Ovechkin will def go #1. But from my view from the pens side, I would rather have malkin just because it fills a need in their system for a #1 possible franchise type center. I would nto be upset to get AO as he looks to be a great player and a franchise winger. I just think pens and caps fans should be overjoyed with either of them. Chicago is the real loser this year having to pick 3rd.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

read that stuff all you want. it makes pens fans feel better and works a good pysch job on caps fans, but the bottom line is that if the pittsburgh and washington suddenly swapped spots in the draft, the pens would choose ovechkin.

if "many scouts" are saying its a dead heat or that malkin "might" be the better player, its certainly not the majority opinion or else there would be some stories suggesting that the capitals were torn between the two or should be. so far i have seen no indication that there is any movement to move malkin to the top ranked spot.

I never said any of that. All I said was that SOME scouts have suggested that the gap between the two is not all that big, and that they might think about even taking Malkin number one. Not that he will or should go number one.

Last I checked, David Conte doesn't work for Red Line. And Kyle Woodlief is a respected scout, just like Conte. Both have made some great compliments towards Malkin that are very encouraging as a fan of the team who will get him. Malkin and Ovechkin are on a level above the rest of the pack. And it's obvious that some respected hockey minds have these two closer than a lot of people seem to think.

But hey, maybe I should not read into guys like Conte and Woodleif and concern myself with the experts here at HFBoards.

 

[MagnusJondus]

You need to get out more....

Thanks, Vlad. I've been a member of these boards as long as you have and have read alot of your posts which usually raise some sort of point which I either agree with or don't, but nonetheless respect.

But taking offbase pot shots at people on a freaking Hockey Prospect board is the definition of lame.

Are you sure I'm the one who should be getting out more?

 

[Dextrous*]

People need to **** about this. Gap is closed. Ovechkin is a better player now. Caps WILL pick him. We will see who the best players are in 5-10 years. Truth is first overall means nothing, It means that player has the best chance to be a better player than the rest. Any player can still be a star. Great nhlers have been drafted 200+. So lets just say theyre both good PROSPECTS and both MAY be future stars.

 

[paul99]

Pierre Tugeon did not disapoint Buffalo Sabres when they selected him first overall in 1997. Nevertheless, Joe Sakic ( 15th) became a better hockey player IMO. That is why I sticked with Hawerchuk, Lemieux and Sundin as the only clear best selection of their respective promotion from 1979 to 2000.

 

[MagnusJondus]

There ain't anything special I have seen apart from him blooming early.

As far as the rest of your argument which makes some points. This is what I said about him possibly being overrated if you'd read the whole post I had. I said he was developed beyond his years when he was in the U-18's as a 16 year old.

And as far as me saying he is "special"...

Maybe I meant "special" as in "special ed".
You can only assume the context I was talking in.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

read that stuff all you want. it makes pens fans feel better and works a good pysch job on caps fans, but the bottom line is that if the pittsburgh and washington suddenly swapped spots in the draft, the pens would choose ovechkin.

if "many scouts" are saying its a dead heat or that malkin "might" be the better player, its certainly not the majority opinion or else there would be some stories suggesting that the capitals were torn between the two or should be. so far i have seen no indication that there is any movement to move malkin to the top ranked spot.

There is no doubt in my mind Ovechkin will go first.

It would be a PR nightmare if the Caps stayed at#1 and took Malkin. Only because Ovechkin is more well known.

Ovechkin by all accounts, should of been drafted last year. So he has had another full year of media attention and hype.

The media have you believe he can walk on water if he wants.

The media gets most of their information from scouts and such, then they hype up a certain player, such as AO. However, 99% of these writers never saw AO play lol. It is almost comical.

Ovechkin hasn't dropped back to the pack, Malkin just took his game up another level.

With 5-6 weeks before the draft, there simply isn't enough time for Malkin to unseat AO for the #1 spot.

However, when they are both 24..25...I will not be shocked if Malkin is the better all around player.

Once people see Malkin play on a regular basis, then they will see how talented he is, and may start to understand why scouts are starting to wonder which of the two Russian phenoms has more long term potential.

I allow the fact AO could be better than Malkin. However, many AO supporters refuse to yield that Malkin could be better than AO. That is when it gets annoying.

Projecting greatness in 18 and 19 year olds is nearly impossible.

No one on these boards knows how the two will turn out. Period.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Thanks, Vlad. I've been a member of these boards as long as you have and have read alot of your posts which usually raise some sort of point which I either agree with or don't, but nonetheless respect.

But taking offbase pot shots at people on a freaking Hockey Prospect board is the definition of lame.

Are you sure I'm the one who should be getting out more?

It doesn't matter how long you have been a member of HF. People are under the impression that someone with 10,000 posts has more hockey knowledge than someone with 100. Just means some people have more time on their hands than others, right?

Someone with 5000+ posts in two years, does need to get out more.

I wouldn't concern myself with what he thinks bro and get yourself upset over it.

 

[X-SHARKIE]

Thanks, Vlad. I've been a member of these boards as long as you have and have read alot of your posts which usually raise some sort of point which I either agree with or don't, but nonetheless respect.

But taking offbase pot shots at people on a freaking Hockey Prospect board is the definition of lame.

Are you sure I'm the one who should be getting out more?

The Funny thing about Vlad is, he complains, talks about how much he hates people who take personal shots, yet I continuesly see him doing the same if not more....I'm glad somone else pointed this out. No place for it. Were here to talk HOCKEY.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Thanks, Vlad. I've been a member of these boards as long as you have and have read alot of your posts which usually raise some sort of point which I either agree with or don't, but nonetheless respect.

But taking offbase pot shots at people on a freaking Hockey Prospect board is the definition of lame.

You get offended awfully easily. All this means is, I question that statement of yours that you haven't seen so much hype for a prospect. It's not really different from what we've seen for a couple of others, including guys who did not even get drafted 1st overall (Spezza, Bouwmeester).

Wasn't meant as an insult.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

The Funny thing about Vlad is, he complains, talks about how much he hates people who take personal shots, yet I continuesly see him doing the same if not more....I'm glad somone else pointed this out. No place for it. Were here to talk HOCKEY.

Or in your case, to talk bull****.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

It doesn't matter how long you have been a member of HF. People are under the impression that someone with 10,000 posts has more hockey knowledge than someone with 100.

I don't.

 

[s7ark]

Ovechkin will def go #1. But from my view from the pens side, I would rather have malkin just because it fills a need in their system for a #1 possible franchise type center.

I had this conversation with my roomate, and originally believed that any team that would best benefit from an ultra-talented, potential franchise center would do best to pick Malkin over Ove. However, if the team with the number one pick this year was looking for a great young center, guess what you could get in a trade for Ove. That's why you have to pick Ove with the first pick. Not only is he the best player available, he also has the most potential trade value for any team looking to acquire/build by position rather than BPA. From what I've seen on all the threads around here, most teams should be willing to give up a superstar (a center for example), a top pick, and a filler (yet still starting) player for the chance to pick Ovechkin. Instead of picking Malkin you could get all of that if you desired. It's the best business decision.

 

[EroCaps]

Ev. Malkin could be a better player than Ovechkin, but I wouldn't say it's probable.

 

[Dextrous*]

Thing is you very rarely trade franchise players.(heatly/thorton/iggy) Ovechkin is likely going to be one. The only real thing worth him is an already proven franchise player(several lower prospects is pointless) and he fits with that team already. So that doesnt make much sense

 

[MagnusJondus]

You get offended awfully easily. All this means is, I question that statement of yours that you haven't seen so much hype for a prospect. It's not really different from what we've seen for a couple of others, including guys who did not even get drafted 1st overall (Spezza, Bouwmeester).

Wasn't meant as an insult.

In remembering what people were saying about Spezza, Lecavalier, and Thornton this close to their draft year, I still don't think they were as hyped up as AO. Bouwmeester's different because he's a D-man and when people are talking about AO being the best offensive-prospect since Lemieux you can't pull D-men into that argument. Goalies as well, with Fleury/Luongo being the best goaltender since.... yadayada

However, I think Daigle was as hyped as AO. Lindros as well. Lecavalier maybe. Being from Pittsburgh and knowing Lemieux so well, I'm always looking for someone with that sort of potential and most years I don't excited that there is one near that level talent-wise. I mean, its easy to see that although Jagr was one of the best in the game for a few years, he was no Lemieux. Not as talented. I truly think that with a player with the potential of Lemieux/Gretzky/Whoever, you'll only know enough to seriously make those comparisons when they are approaching 18 years old and are being judged a bit more on fulfilled ability than simply potential. By then you can see if they stand so far ahead of the pack to get that excited about them. Sure, there are many 15-16 year olds who carry that sort of rediculous hype because they have so much room to develop, but by the time they're 18 the picture becomes clearer and many people stop making references to the game's past greats (Schremp, Robert Dome, Spezza, even Rico freaking Fata comes to mind). In fact, it will be interesting as we'll have to wait and see about Sidney in a year also.

I get the feeling most years from the talk that the big player coming out has Jagr-like sort of potential. IMO, this is one of the few draft years we have people talking up a prospect to a level beyond that. I don't how much of it is coming from Russia or the media or scouting community, but that's what I've gathered.


Oh, and Vlad, no offense taken. I actually don't get offended easily, but have a bad habit of wanting to getting a word in edgewise.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

In remembering what people were saying about Spezza, Lecavalier, and Thornton this close to their draft year, I still don't think they were as hyped up as AO. Bouwmeester's different because he's a D-man and when people are talking about AO being the best offensive-prospect since Lemieux you can't pull D-men into that argument.

Yeah, but Bouwmeester was said to have the talent to be close, as good or better than Orr (in terms of potential) as early as 16-17 years old. Considering that most hockey fans have Gretz, Lemieux, Orr and Howe as the best players of all time in various orders, that was jaw-dropping praise

 

[PecaFan]

Redline is just soooooo smart some times.

According to them...the top 10 in 2004 well be like this....Malkin could go #1 over a hybrid player, who has some of the most sick skills and all around play that drawas comparisons to Foppa...... Alexander Radulov well go #3 overall simply because of a dominating tournament....and Robby Schremp wont even touch the top 10 because of what?

How many times must it be pointed out? Redline is NOT predicting the draft order. They're not saying Schremp won't be in the top 10. In fact, they've even stated that they believe he will be top 10, if I'm not mistaken.

They're simply putting the players in order of how good they think they are. That's it.

And again, they *never said* Malkin is #1. They have him rated #2. Yet folks are so blind in their hatred, they keep accusing them of doing so.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Will Ovechkin go first overall? Yes, most likely. Only way he probably won't is if Ovechkin tells Washington he won't play for them, and/or Ovechkin burns down GMGM's house and pisses on the ashes.

But anyone who says AO will be a for sure NHL superstar must be in love with him or something. The #1 overall has been the sure-fire best in a couple drafts. The only ones I can think of at the moment are 1984(Mario) and 2001(Kovalchuk), and whenever Hawerchuk got drafted.

Also, if I remember correctly, in 1993, Alexandre Daigle was drafted 1st overall. He was expected to be one of the best players in the NHL for a long time, and was considered easily first overall. His best season so far was this season, in which he got like 20 goals and 30 assists for 50 points. I think Pronger's had a better career high than that, and if not him, I know Kariya has, and Niedermayer I think does as well.

People like Daigle don't come around too often, but top picks do become busts sometimes. Chances are, AO becomes an NHL superstar, but it's very, very possible that he becomes a bust and/or Malkin turns out better.

 

[MagnusJondus]

Yeah, but Bouwmeester was said to have the talent to be close, as good or better than Orr (in terms of potential) as early as 16-17 years old. Considering that most hockey fans have Gretz, Lemieux, Orr and Howe as the best players of all time in various orders, that was jaw-dropping praise

Good point. I didn't know of the Orr talk, and that was what I was getting at. If he was still being talked up like that in his draft year then he would be in the same group as AO. Sidney was being called the next Gretzky as a 15 year old in some circles, where it would matter is if they are still saying when he's an 18 year old. Who knows, next year they may be saying he's more in the Denis Savard mold as his true potential becomes clearer.

 

[EroCaps]

Will Ovechkin go first overall? Yes, most likely. Only way he probably won't is if Ovechkin tells Washington he won't play for them, and/or Ovechkin burns down GMGM's house and pisses on the ashes.

But anyone who says AO will be a for sure NHL superstar must be in love with him or something. The #1 overall has been the sure-fire best in a couple drafts. The only ones I can think of at the moment are 1984(Mario) and 2001(Kovalchuk), and whenever Hawerchuk got drafted.

Also, if I remember correctly, in 1993, Alexandre Daigle was drafted 1st overall. He was expected to be one of the best players in the NHL for a long time, and was considered easily first overall. His best season so far was this season, in which he got like 20 goals and 30 assists for 50 points. I think Pronger's had a better career high than that, and if not him, I know Kariya has, and Niedermayer I think does as well.


People like Daigle don't come around too often, but top picks do become busts sometimes. Chances are, AO becomes an NHL superstar, but it's very, very possible that he becomes a bust and/or Malkin turns out better.

It's very very possible AO busts or Malkin turns out better? Everything on the guy says he's the safest superstar scouts have either ever seen, or seen in some time.

IMO, the possiblity exists, but is remote. Scouts and GMs are becoming much better adept at weeding out busts in recent years. Nash, Kovalchuck, Thornton, Lecavalier, etc.

Only goalies are taken over superstar forwards, when the team picking first is weak in net, witness DiPietro and Fleury.