RLR: Malkin could be No. 1 Pick

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MagnusJondus

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EroCaps said:
It's very very possible AO busts or Malkin turns out better? Everything on the guy says he's the safest superstar scouts have either ever seen, or seen in some time.

IMO, the possiblity exists, but is remote.

IMO he plays too much of a complete game to flat out bust like Daigle did unless he gets injured or one day stops putting the effort in. At the very worst, he uses his speed, size, defense on a third/fourth checking line for the next 15 years. I wouldn't consider that a true "bust" though.
 

sparkplug

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Prospects at this stage are just that, prospects. Not superstars, not busts, not checkers, not scorers, nothing is set in stone at this point.
 
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Alex Kovalev

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sparkplug said:
Prospects at this stage are just that, prospects. Not superstars, not busts, not checkers, no scorers, nothing is set in stone at this point.

Its a crapshoot, their 17 and 18 year old boys. Its just that some guys progress faster than others and some have talent that others dont have. But who knows how their going to turn out.
 

Vlad The Impaler

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Alex Kovalev said:
Why is that? They havent even played a game in the NHL for Christsake.

If it was probable, he'd be rated #1 by most. I don't think it's a stretch to say it's not probable that Malkin will be better than Ovechkin. But regardless... if folks making vague statements about players who haven't hit the NHL offend you, you're on the wrong website *big time*.
 

EroCaps

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Alex Kovalev said:
Hummmmm, EroCaps maybe :dunno:




Very nicely said.

Beautiful.

If you think it's that likely Ovy will bust, or Malkin will be better, you haven't seen/read up on either much.
 

Jaded-Fan

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EroCaps said:
Beautiful.

If you think it's that likely Ovy will bust, or Malkin will be better, you haven't seen/read up on either much.


I do not think that anyone is saying that . . . I can only speak for me though, and what I have been saying is that AO has done nothing to lessen what everyone thought of him, but more and more sources are reporting that Malkin has significantly picked up his game. Where Malkin was a pretty sure number 2 coming into the season but with some challengers for that spot reported at certain times, not for long, but I remember reading about that (AO never had any talk of anyone but Malkin anywhere near him), Malkin has grown and come along at a surprising rate to where he is mentioned by some, not all, in the same rarified air that AO has been breathing. Even those who do not talk of Malkin as in a virtual heat with AO have said that EM has really picked up his game, great prospect and would love having him.

Not sure where any of the AO will be a bust talk came from, sure any can Daigle on ya, but nothing I have read says any hint of a scout expressing anything but excitement about the potential of AO, that he has no real chinks in the armor, and the word bust is no where to be seen.
 

EroCaps

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Jaded-Fan said:
I do not think that anyone is saying that . . . I can only speak for me though, and what I have been saying is that AO has done nothing to lessen what everyone thought of him, but more and more sources are reporting that Malkin has significantly picked up his game. Where Malkin was a pretty sure number 2 coming into the season but with some challengers for that spot reported at certain times, not for long, but I remember reading about that (AO never had any talk of anyone but Malkin anywhere near him), Malkin has grown and come along at a surprising rate to where he is mentioned by some, not all, in the same rarified air that AO has been breathing. Even those who do not talk of Malkin as in a virtual heat with AO have said that EM has really picked up his game, great prospect and would love having him.

Not sure where any of the AO will be a bust talk came from, sure any can Daigle on ya, but nothing I have read says any hint of a scout expressing anything but excitement about the potential of AO, that he has no real chinks in the armor, and the word bust is no where to be seen.

I don't mean to be contentious, Malkin is as good as the scouts say. It's diifficult to compare the two, because both can be effective scoring line players, and both have the makings of the necessary maturity it takes to lead a contender.

A good example is their slapshot. Malkin's will blow by you high and effortless, whereas AO's is ripped deceptively low and rising. They remind me of soccer shots, to be fair, Malkin's will come at you hard and accurate like a slug, as will AO's but AO's has teeth, English, smacks the keeper, comes off and creates a rebound opporunity. It's in their stride as well, AO will move hard with force, has superb reach and has sick lateral dekes, but Malkin looks like something out of War of the Worlds coming down at you, with great reach. Both have excellent vision, awareness, and savvy.

I don't take Woodlief too seriously, but you've got to listen to Conte, with the success he's had. Scouts do seem more competent when it comes to analyzing talent nowadays, as the majority of top 5 players over the past 5-7 years have gone on to be major contributors on some level.
 

Alex Kovalev

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EroCaps said:
Beautiful.

If you think it's that likely Ovy will bust, or Malkin will be better, you haven't seen/read up on either much.


I never said that man, dont put words in my mouth. This is what I mean, your assuming things and not seeing the real picture. I never said Ovechkin will be a bust or that Malkin will be better. I want you to realise that there is a chance that Malkin will be a better NHLer, and believe it or not, there is a chance that Ovechkin could be a bust and the same goes for Malkin too. With that said, its a no brainer that right now Ovechkin is the better prospect - just stop making him out to be this superstar when he hasnt ever played a game in the nhl yet.
 

Alex Kovalev

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Vlad The Impaler said:
If it was probable, he'd be rated #1 by most. I don't think it's a stretch to say it's not probable that Malkin will be better than Ovechkin. But regardless... if folks making vague statements about players who haven't hit the NHL offend you, you're on the wrong website *big time*.


How about you calm down man, I didnt say anything wrong, I am just tired of EroCaps singing the Ovechkin Praise nonstop.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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EroCaps said:
Malkin looks like something out of War of the Worlds coming down at you, with great reach.

So you are saying germs can kill Malkin, but not AO?
 

EroCaps

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Alex Kovalev said:
I never said that man, dont put words in my mouth. This is what I mean, your assuming things and not seeing the real picture. I never said Ovechkin will be a bust or that Malkin will be better. I want you to realise that there is a chance that Malkin will be a better NHLer, and believe it or not, there is a chance that Ovechkin could be a bust and the same goes for Malkin too. With that said, its a no brainer that right now Ovechkin is the better prospect - just stop making him out to be this superstar when he hasnt ever played a game in the nhl yet.

I didn't put words in your mouth.
 

Captain Conservative

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ducksflytogether said:
The #1 overall has been the sure-fire best in a couple drafts. The only ones I can think of at the moment are 1984(Mario) and 2001(Kovalchuk), and whenever Hawerchuk got drafted.


Were you following hockey in 2001? Maybe, but I doubt you were following the draft, because Senators fans were all over the place with their Spezza over Kovy talk. Actually up until this season when Kovy established his place as one of the top 5 offensive talents in the league, Sens fans were saying how you just had to give Spezza time for this reason or that. Perhaps all the scouts had Kovy as the clear cut no.1, but I truly doubt that, esp. considering that Spezza was a good old Canadian boy.


As a side note, I just wanted to slip in that at this stage in his development, Malkin sounds a LOT like a young Joe Thornton. Huge frame, superb playmaking ability to complement his soft hands, strong skater esp. considering his height and youth.


Can an informed poster answer two questions:

1. Can you compare/contrast Thornton and Malkin coming into their draft years? What did Thornton do better than Malkin is doing now? Is Malkin stronger in any areas than Thornton was before his draft year? Does Malkin lack grit?

2.If the Thornton comparison is a close fit, why would Ovechkin be rated ahead of Malkin? Is his style closer to the NA style? Is his skating/shooting/defensive game more polished from the extra year of development?


I appreciate any answers!
 
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EroCaps

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Captain Conservative said:
Were you following hockey in 2001? Maybe, but I doubt you were following the draft, because Senators fans were all over the place with their Spezza over Kovy talk. Actually up until this season when Kovy established his place as one of the top 5 offensive talents in the league, Sens fans were saying how you just had to give Spezza time for this reason or that. Perhaps all the scouts had Kovy as the clear cut no.1, but I truly doubt that, esp. considering that Spezza was a good old Canadian boy.


As a side note, I just wanted to slip in that at this stage in his development, Malkin sounds a LOT like a young Joe Thornton. Huge frame, superb playmaking ability to complement his soft hands, strong skater esp. considering his height and youth.


Can an informed poster answer two questions:

1. Can you compare/contrast Thornton and Malkin coming into their draft years? What did Thornton do better than Malkin is doing now? Is Malkin stronger in any areas than Thornton was before his draft year? Does Malkin lack grit?

2.If the Thornton comparison is a close fit, why would Ovechkin be rated ahead of Malkin? Is his style closer to the NA style? Is his skating/shooting/defensive game more polished from the extra year of development?


I appreciate any answers!

Ovechkin is an offensive dynamo with excellent physicality, size, speed, a shot McKeen's compared to Sakic's, defensive play, desire, and maturity. Most scouts rank him 10/10 in every category.
 

Vlad The Impaler

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Alex Kovalev said:
How about you calm down man, I didnt say anything wrong, I am just tired of EroCaps singing the Ovechkin Praise nonstop.

I am perfectly calm. And yes, you did say something wrong, IMO. Just pointing out that your argument was weak. Obviously, if we have to wait for prospects to be in the NHL to have an opinion, we might as well shut this place down.

We all know EroCaps by now. It's not going to be hard for you to not pay attention to him or to point out when he's out to lunch (happens daily). But at the same time, you gotta be fair.

If you honestly believe that it is too soon to make a harmless statement such as (quote) "Ev. Malkin could be a better player than Ovechkin, but I wouldn't say it's probable." and that we should wait for them to be in the NHL... then I have to ask, why the hell are you wasting your time at HF?

That's what the site is about, in case you didn't notice.
 

Edge

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I think Malkin has a chance to be the better overall player, but he's not going first.

Interesting food for thought on the Lecavalier/Malkin comparison.

In 1998 it was Red Line who thought that Legwand was probably the better player than Lecavalier.
 

Karamazov

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While I agree with Kovalev that it may turn out in the end that Malkin could surpass Ovechkin (while I don't see it as probable), I think it's insane to claim that there is no basis for projections until they have played for some time in the NHL. That would be like saying that there is no merit to predicting that a top 5 pick will likely produce more than a late 5th round pick, or that it's quite possible a career grinder in juniors may turn into a prolific scorer in the NHL - simply based on the fact that we haven't seen him play in the bigs, and thus all our knowledge of that player so far is irrelevent. While nothing is set in stone there are valid reasons for projecting a player to be a certain type, based on what we've seen of them so far in their careers. As Vlad said, if it's outrageous to speculate about what prospects might accomplish then these boards should be "shut down".
 

Mothra

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MrKnowNothing said:
Malkin has impressed enough different scouts to have some of them saying they might think about taking him number one.

I admit I could have missed some...I have seen one say he would think about it....followed closely by saying he would probably chicken out
 

Mothra

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paul99 said:
Up to now,Ovechkin has definitively been a better hockey player than Malkin. And there is a general consensus that he should be a better NHLer. That is the reason he will be the number one pick. But it doesn't mean he will have a better career neither than Malkin or some of other 2004 draft picks.

From 1979 to 2000, only 3 of the 22 first selections overall became clearly the best of their vintage: Hawerchuk (1981), Lemieux (1984) and Sundin ( 1989).

Few became very good NHLers without beeing clearly the best of all, as Modano over Roenick (8th, 1988), Hamrlik over Yashin, Thornton over Luongo (4th in 1997) and Lecavalier over Tanguay (12th in 1998).

Keep in mind that the first pick overall is not the garanteed best of his promotion.


This is a very good point.....its possible neither AO/EM will be the best player from this draft......
 

TVanek26*

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JasonMacIsaac said:
Ovechkin will be a bust no matter what on this site. His expectations are far too high at this point.

You said it the best...if AO doesn't net 40 he will be a bust....
 

montreal

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Captain Conservative said:
As a side note, I just wanted to slip in that at this stage in his development, Malkin sounds a LOT like a young Joe Thornton. Huge frame, superb playmaking ability to complement his soft hands, strong skater esp. considering his height and youth.


Can an informed poster answer two questions:

1. Can you compare/contrast Thornton and Malkin coming into their draft years? What did Thornton do better than Malkin is doing now? Is Malkin stronger in any areas than Thornton was before his draft year? Does Malkin lack grit?

2.If the Thornton comparison is a close fit, why would Ovechkin be rated ahead of Malkin? Is his style closer to the NA style? Is his skating/shooting/defensive game more polished from the extra year of development?


I appreciate any answers!


I can't see Malkin compared to Thornton. Thornton was a beast even back then, Malkin is not. I've got 2 games of Malkin on tape in the RSL, so my opinion is only based on that, and I could be way off, but to me he's not very big (tall but skinny) and he doesn't have a big frame like Thornton. I don't see Malkin playing a power game at all, he seems like a very smart playmaker and a real offensive weapon. But I don't see him crashing and banging and knocking players over. That's just my opinion from 2 games.

Also I don't see how Malkin is ahead of AO, who was one of the younger players I can think of to play for the Senior National Team. AO was great in the WJC's last year, and I've got one game on tape with him in the RSL. Both should turn out to be great players though and I'd be happy to get either one.
 
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