Value of: Ristolainen to Toronto.

[The Winter Soldier]

Rielly is absolutely a #1D.

Would Rielly have been a #1 on last year's 4 conference final teams for the Stanley Cup? St Louis, Boston, SJ, and Carolina?

 

[CatchyTune]

Would Rielly have been a #1 on last year's 4 conference final teams for the Stanley Cup? St Louis, Boston, SJ, and Carolina?

Did you ignore my entire post?

I would rather have him over anyone San Jose or Boston has.

Also you are being extremely selective here and moving the goalposts. I said he is a #1D. Which he is. Maybe wanna hand pick out 4 more teams?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Did you ignore my entire post?

I would rather have him over anyone San Jose or Boston has.

Also you are being extremely selective here and moving the goalposts. I said he is a #1D. Which he is. Maybe wanna hand pick out 4 more teams?

I just want to be sure here. Providing all are healthy. You are saying Rielly is better than all of these D men, Burns, Karlsson, McAvoy, and Krug? If so, I think we are done here.

 

[CatchyTune]

I just want to be sure here. Providing all are healthy. You are saying Rielly is better than all of these D men, Burns, Karlsson, McAvoy, and Krug? If so, I think we are done here.

I easily take him over Burns Karlsson and Krug. McAvoy is the only tough one. Still extremely selective, we can absolutely win with him as the 1D.

If you wanna be "done here" because you know you're wrong, go ahead. I'll take a no reply as the only answer I need. But I would love to hear 4 more teams! Maybe 2018-19 conference finalists??? The teams with the Norris finalists? Anything to downplay Rielly!

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I easily take him over Burns Karlsson and Krug. McAvoy is the only tough one. Still extremely selective, we can absolutely win with him as the 1D.

If you wanna be "done here" because you know you're wrong, go ahead. I'll take a no reply as the only answer I need. But I would love to hear 4 more teams! Maybe 2018-19 conference finalists??? The teams with the Norris finalists? Anything to downplay Rielly!

I am curious about one more thing. In another thread you cited takeaways as an advanced stat that illustrated defensive play. Rielly was 412th in the NHL this season in takeaways behind Burns, Krug, McAvoy, and Karlsson in takeaways and takeaways/60. Curious what your thoughts are for this? Do you hold the same value in takeaways in this thread as in the other?

 

[CatchyTune]

I am curious about one more thing. In another thread you cited takeaways as an advanced stat that illustrated defensive play. Rielly was 412th in the NHL this season in takeaways behind Krug, McAvoy, and Karlsson in takeaways and takeaways/60. Curious what your thoughts are for this? Do you hold the same value in takeaways in this thread as in the other?

How long did it take you to dig up that reply?

1st of all, takeaways isnt an advanced stat. 2nd when did I mention defensive play in this thread? You can criticize Rielly's defensive play if you want, but Krug/Burns/Karlsson are all very poor defensively and I wouldnt trust any of them to lead the rush or produce like Rielly does.

Rielly was also 5th in Norris voting last year. Pretty sure thats more important than takeaways. Yes, I know Burns was 2nd, but he is 35 and took a massive step back this season. Rielly was on a broken foot and missed time. At 26 I wouldnt count on a decline.

 

[Jerkbait]

Would Rielly have been a #1 on last year's 4 conference final teams for the Stanley Cup? St Louis, Boston, SJ, and Carolina?

Pitt won a cup with letang injured...without a # 1 ..Morgan is a # 1 D man..and a top 10 d man in the NHL..get over it

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Depends on the team. This is why the reference to Cup contender. On St Louis a cup winner and contender, Rielly would be behind Pietrangelo and Parayko.

he'd be behind Pietrangelo but him and Parayko are extremely close

 

[Walt22]

How long did it take you to dig up that reply?

1st of all, takeaways isnt an advanced stat. 2nd when did I mention defensive play in this thread? You can criticize Rielly's defensive play if you want, but Krug/Burns/Karlsson are all very poor defensively and I wouldnt trust any of them to lead the rush or produce like Rielly does.

Rielly was also 5th in Norris voting last year. Pretty sure thats more important than takeaways. Yes, I know Burns was 2nd, but he is 35 and took a massive step back this season. Rielly was on a broken foot and missed time. At 26 I wouldnt count on a decline.

Norris voting is now a stat to show how good a player is? This is the most hilarious thing I have ever heard on here, and it is always from leafs fans. Any voting system that does not require the voters to disclose who the votes for, and considering the leafs have on average 4 times the number of writers voting than other teams cities should be a clue. Case in point...Jake muzzin finished tied for 11th in Norris voting last year. Someone gave him a 3rd place vote....I wonder where that writer was from....Andrea's Johnsson finished 8th in rookie of the year voting. Someone gave him a 2nd place vote. WTF??? And the hilarious part is you are using this as a benchmark to show how good a player is. That is just embarrassing. Mods should kick your ass off this forum cause it is this kind of tomf***ery that brings this site down to a big joke. I am expecting you to come back with your argument that John Scott is a superstar...fans voted him into the all star game and writers voted him as mvp....2 groups cant be wrong. Bwaaahaa. I cant believe anyone used voting for an arguement.

 

[SnizzMitch]

Did you ignore my entire post?

I would rather have him over anyone San Jose or Boston has.

Also you are being extremely selective here and moving the goalposts. I said he is a #1D. Which he is. Maybe wanna hand pick out 4 more teams?

This is the @The Winter Soldier special. Everytime he loses an argument, he’ll start completely ignoring the points that were made and only focus on one other thing that was said before.

 

[CatchyTune]

Norris voting is now a stat to show how good a player is? This is the most hilarious thing I have ever heard on here, and it is always from leafs fans. Any voting system that does not require the voters to disclose who the votes for, and considering the leafs have on average 4 times the number of writers voting than other teams cities should be a clue. Case in point...Jake muzzin finished tied for 11th in Norris voting last year. Someone gave him a 3rd place vote....I wonder where that writer was from....Andrea's Johnsson finished 8th in rookie of the year voting. Someone gave him a 2nd place vote. WTF??? And the hilarious part is you are using this as a benchmark to show how good a player is. That is just embarrassing. Mods should kick your ass off this forum cause it is this kind of tomf***ery that brings this site down to a big joke. I am expecting you to come back with your argument that John Scott is a superstar...fans voted him into the all star game and writers voted him as mvp....2 groups cant be wrong. Bwaaahaa. I cant believe anyone used voting for an arguement.

Someone needs a drink and a day off. Holy crap what is this post ?!?!

Are you here to criticize the argument or disagree? Because I dont see any argument Karlsson/Burns and especially Krug are better than Rielly.

 

[CatchyTune]

This is the @The Winter Soldier special. Everytime he loses an argument, he’ll start completely ignoring the points that were made and only focus on one other thing that was said before.

I was never enlightened onto how Rielly isnt a 1D

He derailed it talking about how stupid I am for taking him over Krug/Karlsson/Burns and turned it into an argument against myself about takeaways.

I would love for him to cut the crap and focus on Rielly!

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Can someone rewind what is are the most plausible offers in this thread with mutual acceptance?

Interesting subject but 30 pages is too long.

Other than the “Risto isn’t even worth a bag of replica pucks” people, it’s accepted that Risto for Kapanen & Dermott works for both teams.

Johnsson & Dermott for Risto works too (financially). Only it’s not as appealing to the Sabres because of the question marks around AJ.

Regardless both deals roughly work financially for both teams, depending on what Dermott gets on his next contract. Buffalo can also retain ~$1M as enticement to get Kap instead.

 

[CatchyTune]

Other than the “Risto isn’t even worth a bag of replica pucks” people, it’s accepted that Risto for Kapanen & Dermott works for both teams.

Johnsson & Dermott for Risto works too (financially). Only it’s not as appealing to the Sabres because of the question marks around AJ.

Regardless both deals roughly work financially for both teams, depending on what Dermott gets on his next contract. Buffalo can also retain ~$1M as enticement to get Kap instead.

Uhhh... Since when? I wouldnt even do Kapanen straight up.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Uhhh... Since when? I wouldnt even do Kapanen straight up.

Notice I said that it works for both teams, not works for both fan bases? ;]

Pros for Sabres: get a young fast PKer who can move up the lineup. Get a young potential top 4 D (should be top 4 but the coach loves McCabe )

Pros for Leafs: get their top 4 RHD that has physicality and PP ability and is still young and isn’t fragile.

Cons for Sabres: that RHD will spend 6 games a year beating the shit out of Eichel

Cons for Leafs: 2 for 1 trade. Kap is one of their better PKers. Lose ~20 goals. Dermott can play either side so they lose that flexibility. Also lose the ability of a D that can move up if Muzzin or Reilly get hurt

Pros for both: cap is even(ish).

These are all things that have been agreed to by both fan bases.

 

[CatchyTune]

Notice I said that it works for both teams, not works for both fan bases? ;]

Pros for Sabres: get a young fast PKer who can move up the lineup. Get a young potential top 4 D (should be top 4 but the coach loves McCabe )

Pros for Leafs: get their top 4 RHD that has physicality and PP ability and is still young and isn’t fragile.

Cons for Sabres: that RHD will spend 6 games a year beating the shit out of Eichel

Cons for Leafs: 2 for 1 trade. Kap is one of their better PKers. Lose ~20 goals. Dermott can play either side so they lose that flexibility. Also lose the ability of a D that can move up if Muzzin or Reilly get hurt

Pros for both: cap is even(ish).

These are all things that have been agreed to by both fan bases.

I honesty think we lose this trade in 2 ways. We lose the trade from a value standpoint, and we get worse on the ice.

Kapanen is an important piece to this team. He is a lethal PKer, up there with Marner as our top forward PKer, who is also on a very good contract ($3.2 for 2 years and an RFA at the end) is we are worried about cap here.

Dermott is a very underrated piece. I will be extremely sad to see him so unless he helps us reel in a bigger piece than Risto. Dermott will also be super cheap, given he missed time and doesnt put up high point totals. Healthy he would probably be fine as a teams #4 dman.

I really dont see any Toronto fans liking this deal, or how it makes us better. If we are giving up these pieces, I aim higher. I am not totally against a move for Risto, just not at this value.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I honesty think we lose this trade in 2 ways. We lose the trade from a value standpoint, and we get worse on the ice.

Kapanen is an important piece to this team. He is a lethal PKer, up there with Marner as our top forward PKer, who is also on a very good contract ($3.2 for 2 years and an RFA at the end) is we are worried about cap here.

Dermott is a very underrated piece. I will be extremely sad to see him so unless he helps us reel in a bigger piece than Risto. Dermott will also be super cheap, given he missed time and doesnt put up high point totals. Healthy he would probably be fine as a teams #4 dman.

I really dont see any Toronto fans liking this deal, or how it makes us better. If we are giving up these pieces, I aim higher. I am not totally against a move for Risto, just not at this value.

I figure he’ll be cheap too. I put Dermott’s next contract (and include Kap’s here) where Buffalo takes on about 500K in additional salary.

Unless you wanna do a trade where you send us your 2C for Risto

Regardless if a trade happens one side is gonna be unhappy.

 

[biotk]

Notice I said that it works for both teams, not works for both fan bases? ;]

All that matters is that it works for both GMs.

Other than the “Risto isn’t even worth a bag of replica pucks” people, it’s accepted that Risto for Kapanen & Dermott works for both teams.

Johnsson & Dermott for Risto works too (financially). Only it’s not as appealing to the Sabres because of the question marks around AJ.

I believe that Lebrun's comments were correct in February - that the deal could only be made in the summer because of cap considerations in season. With Johnsson the only player (other than Horton and Clarkson) on LTIR at the time who was not expected back before the playoffs...

Risto for:
Kapanen and Dermott (fine cap-wise, so wouldn't work as the trade per Lebrun's comments)
Kerfoot and Dermott (fine cap-wise, so wouldn't work as the trade per Lebrun's comments)
Kapanen and Kerfoot (fine cap-wise for Toronto, not for Buffalo, so would work as the trade per Lebrun's comments)
Johnsson and Dermott (no go because of cap issues for TML, so would work as the trade per Lebrun's comments)
Kapanen and Johnsson (no go because of cap issues, for TML so would work as the trade per Lebrun's comments)
Kerfoot and Johnsson (no go because of cap issues for TML, so would work as the trade per Lebrun's comments)

Those were only combinations of two players for Risto. Kapanen straight up for Risto for instance would also not have worked cap-wise for Toronto towards the end of the season and therefore would work as the trade per Lebrun's comments.

However, when it comes to the Sabres their whole cap situation with ELC bonuses carrying over to next season has left me a little defeated so I don't really know for sure.

Regardless, I don't think that the trade talks have survived the Sabres GM change. If Buffalo does not trade Risto they should look to trade either Montour or Miller. While there will be teams who could use D like Montour and Miller, I don't think Dubas should be interested in either.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I honesty think we lose this trade in 2 ways. We lose the trade from a value standpoint, and we get worse on the ice.

Kapanen is an important piece to this team. He is a lethal PKer, up there with Marner as our top forward PKer, who is also on a very good contract ($3.2 for 2 years and an RFA at the end) is we are worried about cap here.

Dermott is a very underrated piece. I will be extremely sad to see him so unless he helps us reel in a bigger piece than Risto. Dermott will also be super cheap, given he missed time and doesnt put up high point totals. Healthy he would probably be fine as a teams #4 dman.

I really dont see any Toronto fans liking this deal, or how it makes us better. If we are giving up these pieces, I aim higher. I am not totally against a move for Risto, just not at this value.

I LOVE Kappy but he is replaceable because he is a depth piece and ALL depth pieces are replaceable that's why they are depth pieces.

Beyond that he's a winger which makes him even more replaceable because the Leafs have wingers coming out the ass.

Justin Holl can't be all you have on RD that's not going to work.

I don't want to hear about Dermott it's been 5 years since he played RD consistently.

I don't want to hear about Lilly he's not ready for a top 4 role.

They need a proven established RD.

Risto isn't my 1st choice but he'd be a MASSIVE upgrade

 

[CatchyTune]

I LOVE Kappy but he is replaceable because he is a depth piece and ALL depth pieces are replaceable that's why they are depth pieces.

Beyond that he's a winger which makes him even more replaceable because the Leafs have wingers coming out the ass.

Justin Holl can't be all you have on RD that's not going to work.

I don't want to hear about Dermott it's been 5 years since he played RD consistently.

I don't want to hear about Lilly he's not ready for a top 4 role.

They need a proven established RD.

Risto isn't my 1st choice but he'd be a MASSIVE upgrade

Im not against getting a top 4 RHD. Or moving Dermott. I just think this deal stinks.

Kapanen is not as replaceable as you are making it out to be. Who is going to step in and put up 20+ goals and 40+ points while being a top PKer? While also being 23 on a cheap deal with team control beyond it.

Now im not entirely against moving Kapanen. If the right deal/player is there, you make the move. Rasmus Ristolainen is not that player.

 

[CatchyTune]

I figure he’ll be cheap too. I put Dermott’s next contract (and include Kap’s here) where Buffalo takes on about 500K in additional salary.

Unless you wanna do a trade where you send us your 2C for Risto

Regardless if a trade happens one side is gonna be unhappy.

By my math, you're predicting Dermott clocks in at about $2.7 million? Thats actually pretty good depending on term.

Are you expecting a 2C for Ristolainen?

 

[Fjordy]

Are you expecting a 2C for Ristolainen?

Maybe level Henrique or Tierney, not elite.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Maybe level Henrique or Tierney, not elite.

Sounds like Kerfoot is a fit

 

[MarkusKetterer]

By my math, you're predicting Dermott clocks in at about $2.7 million? Thats actually pretty good depending on term.

Are you expecting a 2C for Ristolainen?

I figure a bridge contract. Maybe like 3 years.

And I totally expect one of the Leafs 2C for Risto. We’ll let Dubas decide if that’s Matthews, Tavares or Nylander.

I know that won’t happen but I want it to just to see the meltdown that happens.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Im not against getting a top 4 RHD. Or moving Dermott. I just think this deal stinks.

Kapanen is not as replaceable as you are making it out to be. Who is going to step in and put up 20+ goals and 40+ points while being a top PKer? While also being 23 on a cheap deal with team control beyond it.

Now im not entirely against moving Kapanen. If the right deal/player is there, you make the move. Rasmus Ristolainen is not that player.

I think Mikheyev can do that personally.

If there is ANYTHING right in the last decade it's find and develop wingers that's why i'm not concerned about losing a winger.