Blue Jays Discussion: RIP Roy Halladay (1977-2017)

[theaub]

I think the issue here is that telling the truth isn't throwing someone under the bus.

 

[Discoverer]

Of course he screwed up, but you don't throw teammates under the bus to distance yourself from the mistake. Especially in an interview.

If Bautista was on deck and someone struck out to end the game and reporters responded by asking him why he didn't come through in the 9th inning, would it be "throwing his teammate under the bus" or shifting blame if he said "I didn't come through because someone struck out"?

Because, while it's a bit extreme, that's what happened. Someone else made a mistake and, in an emotional moment, reporters who presumably watched the play and should have known what happened, asked him multiple times about it. And still, he never referred to Goins by name, said "we" several times in describing the play, and the closest thing to shifting the blame that he said was "someone called me off."

Like others have said, that whole thing was huge bunch of nothing.

 

[Woodman19]

I guess I come from the old school approach to professionalism.

 

[theaub]

So you wanted Bautista to throw at Goins head the next time he went to hit?

 

[TF97]

I personally have no issue with any of Bautista's comments. Sure, he may have been blunt most of the time. But at least he was honest. I have less issue with Bautista calling out Goins (or stating a fact) post game than I do Lawrie screaming at Lind.

 

[zeke]

Bautista interviews the good way.

Shapiro interviews the bad way.

 

[Discoverer]

Bautista interviews the good way.

Shapiro interviews the bad way.

It just wouldn't be a Jays thread if zeke didn't chime in with an anti-Shapiro post on a completely unrelated topic.

 

[zeke]

did you read/hear shappy's embarassing interview today. goddamn insulting.

 

[Woodman19]

Lol having a debate about attitude and in comes Zeke with his anti Shaprio spiel.

 

[Kurtz]

did you read/hear shappy's embarassing interview today. goddamn insulting.

Missed it - what's the synopsis?

 

[rojac]

did you read/hear shappy's embarassing interview today. goddamn insulting.

What do you find insulting about it? Or is it simply that he's not doing things the way you want him to?

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

did you read/hear shappy's embarassing interview today. goddamn insulting.

Is it because he threw shade at Anthopolous....because he threw shade at Anthopolous

Besides that, everything else he said is true.

1. This year was outside of the range of outcomes we might have expected. Doesn't mean we're not bitter about it. Watching other teams celebrate should make you bitter.

We said all along, due to the maturity of the roster (true), a lack of balance (true), lack of upper minors talent and depth (true) due largely to trades (not true; due to poor position player drafting between '10-13 is the correct answer, but he was being polite) it was a precarious position. One that we were fortunate to avoid last year, and one that we were unable to avoid this year. Unless we can reposition the team, which is almost impossible to do through free agency (definitely impossible to do), and even through trade (even harder), its going to be a similar story next year.

2. The silver lining is two-fold. One: If even a couple of the seven or eight things that went wrong this year hadn't happened: a) Sanchez (true), b) Donaldson (true), c) Martin (true), d) Travis (true) hadn't gotten hurt e) Osuna didn't blow six saves, we'd be right in the wild card mix. Two: An incredibly productive year of progress in our player development system (true) which moves the layer of talent one step closer to the Major League environment (true). Not to where we'll have championship depth next year, that we need, but certainly getting closer to having the waves of talent coming that would allow us to build a sustainable championship team.

- His front office's effort is focused on the foundation, obsessively focusing on the farm system and player development
- Also doing everything possible to win in the Majors because they owe that to the fans

Moreover,

No button to push to get youthful and more balance. We're just trying to build a team and an organization the right way. We could flip a switch and get younger, but not necessarily get better. We would like to be much more athletic and much younger, but there's a process.

Pretty much echoed what we already knew. And everything seems reasonable.

 

[zeke]

key takaways:

- nothing we did was bad
- everything bad was beyond our control
- all criticism is because you guys just don't get it
- don't worry, we 'll take care of everything becuz we r smrt
- yeah donaldson is a goner but we will pretend he's not because y'all are dumb
- we will continue fake trying becuz u dumdums will buy tickets


- and oh yeah ryan goins is starting material

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

key takaways:

- nothing we did was bad
- everything bad was beyond our control
- all criticism is because you guys just don't get it
- don't worry, we 'll take care of everything becuz we r smrt
- yeah donaldson is a goner but we will pretend he's not because y'all are dumb
- we will continue fake trying becuz u dumdums will buy tickets


- and oh yeah ryan goins is starting material

 

[Suntouchable13]

What a sad story about Doug Ault. Damn.

 

[shortfuze]

Love Stroman, Love Bautista, love baseball in general. The emotions baseball players show are real, and should be part of the game. Never understood why people get upset about that, its professional sports, you don't want Stroman going berserk after a big strikeout, than hit the ball. Much more interesting than watching McDavid, Crosby and the rest of the NHL players (minus Subban who is hilarious) give their robotic interviews.

i think having emotion in sports is awesome but you don't want to have to much emotion and show up your opposing team. But that's just the way I was brought up.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Leafin]

Not sure if it was posted but Pearce has been shut down for the year. Fair to say we can't count on this guy to be a full time player next season if we hope to compete. He's a solid LF/1B bench bat at this point.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/blue-jays-steve-pearce-shut-season-lower-back-stiffness/

 

[theaub]

The fact that the number of people who thought he'd get to 500+ PA this year was more than zero was a good indicator of how this season went.

 

[Judas Tavares]

A bit confused about the AA vs. Shatkins debate here.

So people wanted no playoffs and us to be a middling team with Hoffman, Norris, Boyd and all those other great prospects we traded away?

And people like the two dudes who misjudged and insulted the fans/market, did nothing to improve the team in the '15 and '16 offseasons? The path that the Hutch trade started has been awesome and I want to see more of that, but otherwise these dudes haven't done much other than twiddle their thumbs wasting this window and the impending rebuild will also take longer because it.

 

[Amadeus]

I've been very impressed with Atkins and Shapiro since they've come. I'd have been upset if we would have taken a drastic shift in our philosophy on young players but they've come in with a mindset that Toronto fans want - building a great farm system.

They came in a signed Lourdes Gurriel Jr. to a pretty ambitious contract. They brought in Steve Sanders to oversea amateur scouting, a guy who was an integral part of the scouting team (Boston) that consistently nets out solid MLB talent from their farm system.

In addition, I haven't disagreed with any move they've made, or not made. I'm perfectly good with how they handled Edwin in FA. They went after all the right players in the FA and while Dexter Fowler would have been great, but he isn't worth the coin St. Louis gave up for him.

They're saying all the right things and I'm content with the job they've done so far.

 

[canucksfan]

A bit confused about the AA vs. Shatkins debate here.

So people wanted no playoffs and us to be a middling team with Hoffman, Norris, Boyd and all those other great prospects we traded away?

And people like the two dudes who misjudged and insulted the fans/market, did nothing to improve the team in the '15 and '16 offseasons? The path that the Hutch trade started has been awesome and I want to see more of that, but otherwise these dudes haven't done much other than twiddle their thumbs wasting this window and the impending rebuild will also take longer because it.

I don't think anyone is saying this. However, the reason why the farm system wasn't good was because of AA. I agree with what he did but that's why the farm system needed to be restocked.

 

[The Nemesis]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/20788225/derek-jeter-asks-miami-marlins-fire-4-luminaries

His royal holiness, St. Derek Jeter has asked the outgoing Marlins president David Samson to fire 4 notable "special assistants to the organization", Andre Dawson, Jeff Conine, Tony Perez, and Jack McKeon before he (Samson) himself is fired/ousted during the ownership changeover. All 4 have been with the organization for 10+ years. Perez has been there since the beginning in 1993 and McKeon was the manager of their last world series team in 2003

Why?

Because Jeter is the one presumably inheriting Samson's job and he doesn't want to fire the guys himself.

What a guy, that Derek Jeter. He's just a straight shooter and a good person and he does baseball the right way.

 

[hoc123]

A bit confused about the AA vs. Shatkins debate here.

So people wanted no playoffs and us to be a middling team with Hoffman, Norris, Boyd and all those other great prospects we traded away?

And people like the two dudes who misjudged and insulted the fans/market, did nothing to improve the team in the '15 and '16 offseasons?The path that the Hutch trade started has been awesome and I want to see more of that, but otherwise these dudes haven't done much other than twiddle their thumbs wasting this window and the impending rebuild will also take longer because it.

As someone who is a fan of both AA and Shapkins, I have two main arguments against what you said.

1. While there is no doubt that AA's 2015 trade deadline moves were great, he failed just as bad in his 2012-13 offseason moves.

2. Shapkins played a pretty big part in the Jays making the postseason in 2016. Throughout the year the big moves they made were:

Signing Estrada to a 2-26M Contract.
Trading Liam Hendricks for Jeese Chavez
Signing J.A Happ to a 3-36M contract.
Getting Joe Biagini in the Rule 5 draft.
Signing Darwin Barney 1-1.1M contract
Trading Ben Revere for Drew Storen
Trading Sen Ratcliffe for Jason Grilli
Trading Drew Storen for Joaquin Benoit
Trading Hansel Rodriguez for Melvin Upton
Trading Lupe Chavez for Scott Feldman
Trading Drew Hutchison for Francisco Liriano+Reese McGuire+Harold Ramirez

To simplify it last year Shapkins got 12.4 bWAR + Reese McGuire + Harold Ramirez for 33.2M + Sean Ratcliffe + Hansel Rodriguez + Lupe Chavez. They managed to get significant value out of 33M for a team that wouldn't have made the playoffs had they lost 2 more games, or would have lost home field advantage in the AL Wild Card if they lost 1 more game.

 

[Eyedea]

key takaways:

- nothing we did was bad
- everything bad was beyond our control
- all criticism is because you guys just don't get it
- don't worry, we 'll take care of everything becuz we r smrt
- yeah donaldson is a goner but we will pretend he's not because y'all are dumb
- we will continue fake trying becuz u dumdums will buy tickets


- and oh yeah ryan goins is starting material

And yet you really thought AA was going to give Price a legitimate offer

So people wanted no playoffs and us to be a middling team with Hoffman, Norris, Boyd and all those other great prospects we traded away?

I'll just reply to this because your other bit is even more ludicrous, but the idea around trading assets is to improve your organization, and what AA did was essentially take the short route and acquire depreciating assets. I can't fault him for that, he saw a window, those specific players were available, he decided it was time. However, if you have good prospects and know they will bust/struggle in the future, you're still not going to try and sell them off for less than they are currently worth. You want to get rich? Invest in appreciating assets. AA took a risk and it flopped the moment he left.