Blue Jays Discussion: RIP Roy Halladay (1977-2017)

[GoonieFace]

Love Stroman, Love Bautista, love baseball in general. The emotions baseball players show are real, and should be part of the game. Never understood why people get upset about that, its professional sports, you don't want Stroman going berserk after a big strikeout, than hit the ball. Much more interesting than watching McDavid, Crosby and the rest of the NHL players (minus Subban who is hilarious) give their robotic interviews.

 

[Woodman19]

I understand that the issue is being subtly painted as a racial issue, but Lawrie, Bautista and someone like Harper is the exact kind of attitude that puts many off. The selfish me first type of incidents while guys like Stroman, Donaldson and Pedro team first type of attitude is endearing.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Bryce Harper is black, Woodrow. Everyone knows that.

 

[Woodman19]

Bryce Harper is black, Woodrow. Everyone knows that.

Oh, then I'm totally racist

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Oh, then I'm totally racist

No you're not.

You just weren't a fan of the Dominican mafia (Bautista, Encarnacion, Reyes, Bonifacio)

 

[Bernini]

Fine for the last homestand, but Gibby's loyalty to Jose was misplaced on the field. Batting him cleanup when his performance rates a bench spot is not fair to the fans who want a competitive team. He has no future here, but his present is not within miles of his past, running, fielding, and hitting.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Fine for the last homestand, but Gibby's loyalty to Jose was misplaced on the field. Batting him cleanup when his performance rates a bench spot is not fair to the fans who want a competitive team. He has no future here, but his present is not within miles of his past, running, fielding, and hitting.

Who should have been hitting clean up?

 

[Woodman19]

No you're not.

You just weren't a fan of the Dominican mafia (Bautista, Encarnacion, Reyes, Bonifacio)

I liked Edwin though, can we find an excuse to exclude him from the mafia. Informant maybe?

 

[Longshot]

I miss All Star Baseball 2004 with Wells/Delgado/Phelps terrorizing everyone

What game system was that on? I remember I had Triple Play 98 for Playstation 1 and Ed Sprague hit five homeruns in a game. I didn't play it much after that. It was fun though, Buck Martinez was the colour guy.

 

[Patmac40]

Bryce Harper is black, Woodrow. Everyone knows that.

Well yeah duh

 

[Longshot]

The things done in 1999 pretty much broke the franchise prior to the Riccardi era. You could re-write history getting the Clemens (for Pettite), Green (for Beltre), and Hentgen (for Morris) deals correct. Alas, Gord Ash was about as bad as Riccardi.

I don't remember the Clemens deal being about Pettite. I can remember a lot of discussion about it being Clemens for a bunch of Yankee prospects in the lower minors, with Alfonso Soriano at the top of the list. But, my memory could be fading.

I don't even think 99 was the biggest mistake Ash made during his brutal tenure.

I still believe that was in 95. The team was awful and a bunch of guys were about to become free agents. Ash traded David Cone and that was it.

Then in the winter: Alomar, Devon White, Al Leiter and Paul Molitor all walked away as free agent. Those guys could have fetched a bunch of prospects at the deadline (it was the first year of four teams in the playoffs), some of whom might have grown into players that could be added to the Delgado/Green/Carpenter/Halladay teams that emerged a few years later.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I liked Edwin though, can we find an excuse to exclude him from the mafia. Informant maybe?

Eddie is definitely the Henry Hill of that group. Jose is Paulie, Reyes was Jimmy the Gent, and Bonifacio was Tommy.

I don't remember the Clemens deal being about Pettite. I can remember a lot of discussion about it being Clemens for a bunch of Yankee prospects in the lower minors, with Alfonso Soriano at the top of the list. But, my memory could be fading.

I don't even think 99 was the biggest mistake Ash made during his brutal tenure.

I still believe that was in 95. The team was awful and a bunch of guys were about to become free agents. Ash traded David Cone and that was it.

Then in the winter: Alomar, Devon White, Al Leiter and Paul Molitor all walked away as free agent. Those guys could have fetched a bunch of prospects at the deadline (it was the first year of four teams in the playoffs), some of whom might have grown into players that could be added to the Delgado/Green/Carpenter/Halladay teams that emerged a few years later.

I can forgive the lack of proactivity in '95. At that point, they didn't quite know what the Yankees and Red Sox were going to become. It would be tough to sell that quick two years after back to back championships. Not a valid excuse, but you can understand it.

In regards to Pettitte:
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/12/10/s...-go-but-clemens-deal-is-unlikely.html?mcubz=3

The Yankees have expressed a willingness to trade Andy Pettitte in a package for Toronto's Roger Clemens, according to a major league executive. The teams, however, are not close to agreeing on the parameters for a deal.

 

[Woodman19]

Eddie is definitely the Henry Hill of that group. Jose is Paulie, Reyes was Jimmy the Gent, and Bonifacio was Tommy. [/url]

You're a funny guy.

 

[Discoverer]

I understand that the issue is being subtly painted as a racial issue, but Lawrie, Bautista and someone like Harper is the exact kind of attitude that puts many off. The selfish me first type of incidents while guys like Stroman, Donaldson and Pedro team first type of attitude is endearing.

Again, though, how are these things actually different? Why is it "me first" when Bautista argues the strikezone and "team first" and "endearing" when Stroman argues the strikezone or complains about getting called for a quick-pitch? They're both doing the exact same thing: arguing a call they disagree with. You just view them differently because... I don't know why.

 

[metafour]

Again, though, how are these things actually different? Why is it "me first" when Bautista argues the strikezone and "team first" and "endearing" when Stroman argues the strikezone or complains about getting called for a quick-pitch? They're both doing the exact same thing: arguing a call they disagree with. You just view them differently because... I don't know why.

Exactly. Glad I'm not the only one who struggles with the suggestion of "me first" vs. "team first" outbursts. Its the same thing, the only thing that differentiates it are the biases you subject yourself to. You see this in every sport: when Tom Brady throws a fit on the sidelines its because he's a "fiery competitor who wants to win", yet when someone like Terrell Owens or Randy Moss do the same thing its a giant "selfish distraction".

 

[FreeBird]

No you're not.

You just weren't a fan of the Dominican mafia (Bautista, Encarnacion, Reyes, Bonifacio)

And Raul Mondesi goes to Jail fro ripping off the Dominican.

 

[Discoverer]

Exactly. Glad I'm not the only one who struggles with the suggestion of "me first" vs. "team first" outbursts. Its the same thing, the only thing that differentiates it are the biases you subject yourself to. You see this in every sport: when Tom Brady throws a fit on the sidelines its because he's a "fiery competitor who wants to win", yet when someone like Terrell Owens or Randy Moss do the same thing its a giant "selfish distraction".

It's especially prevalent in baseball because "me first" and "team first" are basically the same thing. Almost every single time, if something helps the individual, it helps the team.

 

[Woodman19]

So no one sees anything wrong with Bautista throwing Goins under the bus post game or Lawrie yelling at Lind for not tagging up from 3rd?

 

[Anthrax442]

Lawrie was wired up like he had a bag of crack with his redbull every morning

 

[phillipmike]

Teoscar Hernandez’s trade from the Astros to the Blue Jays gives him the opportunity to become a potential replacement for a player he grew up idolizing, writes Richard Griffin of the Toronto Star. Jose Bautista’s 54-homer breakout came the year before Hernandez signed as an amateur with Houston, and the 24-year-old tells Griffin that his countryman and childhood idol has already been an invaluable mentor. “The day that I got here (Sept. 2), Bautista came to me and told me a lot of things,” says Hernandez, who credits Bautista with giving him advice on his hitting as well as his off-field routine. “For me, he’s one of the awesome guys that I ever met. He’s every day telling me something new.” Per Griffin, the Jays plan to give Hernandez “every opportunity to earn an everyday role” in 2018 and beyond.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/blue...nce-to-replace-his-blue-jay-idol-griffin.html

 

[Discoverer]

So no one sees anything wrong with Bautista throwing Goins under the bus post game or Lawrie yelling at Lind for not tagging up from 3rd?

"It's obviously a ball that should've been caught. That's what opened the door. We should be making those plays. I was running to it. Someone called me off. So I peeled off."

That's enough to make you think he's a "me first" player and to colour your opinion of everything else he does?

 

[theaub]

Seriously that was the biggest nothing story ever. That's like saying Donaldson threw the team under the bus with his 'its the get it done league' quote.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

So no one sees anything wrong with Bautista throwing Goins under the bus post game or Lawrie yelling at Lind for not tagging up from 3rd?

Nah I was cool with both. Moreso the Bautista-Goins thing...because you know...***** Ryan Goins.

 

[Discoverer]

Nah I was cool with both. Moreso the Bautista-Goins thing...because you know...***** Ryan Goins.

Plus, I mean... it was pretty clear that Goins screwed up on that play, right?

 

[Woodman19]

Plus, I mean... it was pretty clear that Goins screwed up on that play, right?

Of course he screwed up, but you don't throw teammates under the bus to distance yourself from the mistake. Especially in an interview.