RIP Bobby Hull 1939-2023

[The Blue Baron]

I'll just address this post.

I will admit to having an alcohol problem. My sponsor (AA) was a great guy. He was 50, Indigenous, going to college for social work. He did a 8 1/2 year stint at Stony Mountain. Apparently after a bender, he found a man in bed with his wife, and nearly beat him to death. In prison, he joined AA, became a model prisoner, and started working with at risk youth to discourage them from gang life, and is involved in the community.

Now my question is this: The man he beat had permanent injuries, although my sponsor reached out for forgiveness. Should he be judged for eternity due to bad acts he committed when he was sick with alcoholism? People can change.

As for Hull, I have no idea if he reformed, quit drinking (I heard he could be a monster when inebriated), or if he asked for forgiveness. It's not my place to judge. All I know is he was instrumental in the early success of the Jets,a nd possibly the reason they were able to be absorbed into the NHL. He also did charity work, and went out of his way to greet fans.

That does not obviously absolve him of some of the bad things that he did, and I was really disappointed when I learned about Hull's treatment of women 20 years ago. Should he be forgive? That's ultimately between him and his maker.

However, I guess I grew up in an environment where it was frowned upon to speak ill of the dead. I just don't understand what the point of it would be, but perhaps I am missing something.

Nothing you are missing nothing. Great read, great story. Props man!

 

[Atoyot]

I'll just address this post.

I will admit to having an alcohol problem. My sponsor (AA) was a great guy. He was 50, Indigenous, going to college for social work. He did a 8 1/2 year stint at Stony Mountain. Apparently after a bender, he found a man in bed with his wife, and nearly beat him to death. In prison, he joined AA, became a model prisoner, and started working with at risk youth to discourage them from gang life, and is involved in the community.

Now my question is this: The man he beat had permanent injuries, although my sponsor reached out for forgiveness. Should he be judged for eternity due to bad acts he committed when he was sick with alcoholism? People can change.

As for Hull, I have no idea if he reformed, quit drinking (I heard he could be a monster when inebriated), or if he asked for forgiveness. It's not my place to judge. All I know is he was instrumental in the early success of the Jets,a nd possibly the reason they were able to be absorbed into the NHL. He also did charity work, and went out of his way to greet fans.

That does not obviously absolve him of some of the bad things that he did, and I was really disappointed when I learned about Hull's treatment of women 20 years ago. Should he be forgive? That's ultimately between him and his maker.

However, I guess I grew up in an environment where it was frowned upon to speak ill of the dead. I just don't understand what the point of it would be, but perhaps I am missing something.

Sorry, but to hell with his maker. Forgiveness is between him and those he wronged. Full stop. I know people can get better, I hope he did for his loved ones sake. I'm not privy to those intimate details so that's all I have to say about him dying - I hope he got better.

Also congrats on getting sober, I've been on and off for awhile now and hope I can pull through at some point. Recently fell off after 128 days. Shit's hard.

 

[Finnflash]

“Let the dead bury the dead”.

Many meanings to this quote but for me we should never glorify anyone as most have sinned. Forgiveness is very important for those who have been hurt.

Lastly the truth is important and there are some truths in this. Bobby lived a complicated life he sinned but also did a number of good things.

I haven’t sinned in the same way he did nor have a done good as he did. So I won’t be the first to cast a stone.

 

[chaos4]

Do you think all his family remember "the good times"? Do you think his victims appreciate seeing the public adulation of the man that hurt them? You're free to practice whatever traditions you wish - and others are free to ignore them.

Yes, especially if those times were few and far between.
It's hard, but you can't let the bad memories defeat you, because they most certainly will, if you let them.

 

[imec]

Yes, especially if those times were few and far between.
It's hard, but you can't let the bad memories defeat you, because they most certainly will, if you let them.

Um, not all of them, I'm thinkin...

"In 2002, his second wife, Joanne, told an ESPN SportsCentury documentary what Hull had allegedly done to her on a trip to Hawaii in 1966. In it, she said: "He took my shoe — with a steel heel — and proceeded to hit me in the head. I was covered with blood. And I can remember him holding me over the balcony and I thought this is the end, I'm going." "

 

[SM]

That post says more about you, than it does Bobby Hull.

It's a hockey forum. I'm putting this up since on-ice he contributed so much to professional hockey in Winnipeg. Bobby Hull obviously was far from perfect and the big guy upstairs will judge him for that, but trashing anyone upon the news of their death is a classless move.

No no no, someone being “far from perfect” is something you would say of a person known to be an asshole.

Whether he died today or not, stating the fact that he was accused (and plead guilty) of repeated and long-lasting domestic abuse and espoused hateful speech saying that Hitler had good ideas is not trashing a man — those are facts. If that sounds terrible to you, it’s because the things he did were terrible, not that some didn’t like his opinions, politics, beliefs, attitude etc. and are bad-talking him posthumously.

Edit: after reading through the thread and the various posts on this - the point of highlighting this after his death (or talking “ill of the dead”) is to ensure we’re not blindly idolizing and giving a free pass on despicable behavior to a man who simply played a game well.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

but other than "Hitler had some good ideas" which does not necessarily indicate antisemitism, what is your proof.

This Hour Has 22 Minutes reported him as saying it was “Sittler who had same good ideas”…

 

[DannyGallivan]

Um, not all of them, I'm thinkin...

"In 2002, his second wife, Joanne, told an ESPN SportsCentury documentary what Hull had allegedly done to her on a trip to Hawaii in 1966. In it, she said: "He took my shoe — with a steel heel — and proceeded to hit me in the head. I was covered with blood. And I can remember him holding me over the balcony and I thought this is the end, I'm going." ".

No no no, someone being “far from perfect” is something you would say of a person known to be an asshole.

Whether he died today or not, stating the fact that he was accused (and plead guilty) of repeated and long-lasting domestic abuse and espoused hateful speech saying that Hitler had good ideas is not trashing a man — those are facts. If that sounds terrible to you, it’s because the things he did were terrible, not that some didn’t like his opinions, politics, beliefs, attitude etc. and are bad-talking him posthumously.

Edit: after reading through the thread and the various posts on this - the point of highlighting this after his death (or talking “ill of the dead”) is to ensure we’re not blindly idolizing and giving a free pass on despicable behavior to a man who simply played a game well.

Some things just cannot be forgiven. If only he merely supported and proudly posed with the worst mass murderer and meglomaniac since Hitler himself... that apparently can be forgiven (right Ovie fans?) Maybe he should have just had a social media account featuring a picture of Hitler, then 99 per cent of the hockey world would just pretend it didn't exist.

When the self righteous are piously pissing on graves, don't forget a few of the living. Wasn't Patrick Roy another domestic abuser?

 

[imec]

Some things just cannot be forgiven. If only he merely supported and proudly posed with the worst mass murderer and meglomaniac since Hitler himself... that apparently can be forgiven (right Ovie fans?) Maybe he should have just had a social media account featuring a picture of Hitler, then 99 per cent of the hockey world would just pretend it didn't exist.

When the self righteous are piously pissing on graves, don't forget a few of the living. Wasn't Patrick Roy another domestic abuser?

No Ovie fan here. Dying doesn't make the past disappear.

 

[DannyGallivan]

No Ovie fan here. Dying doesn't make the past disappear.

Too many hypocrites in the world today. Maybe not you, I don’t know, but way too many.

 

[SM]

Some things just cannot be forgiven. If only he merely supported and proudly posed with the worst mass murderer and meglomaniac since Hitler himself... that apparently can be forgiven (right Ovie fans?) Maybe he should have just had a social media account featuring a picture of Hitler, then 99 per cent of the hockey world would just pretend it didn't exist.

When the self righteous are piously pissing on graves, don't forget a few of the living. Wasn't Patrick Roy another domestic abuser?

Let me make it clear first and foremost that I’m not an Ovechkin fan.

Although I understand your argument by comparing Hull and Ovechkin, I don’t think it works. Hull was not born into a Hitler-led Germany, nor did his family live there while he played hockey elsewhere. Hull, of his own volition and without being indoctrinated/forced to believe that Hitler had good ideas or was a great ruler, came to that conclusion on his own as an outsider, even with the hindsight and knowledge of the atrocities of the Holocaust.

Nor did I make any statement supporting others who I believe to have done wrong. I will note however that in Patrick Roy’s case, there was a single incident in 2000. I’m not commending him for “only” abusing/intimidating his wife once (at least to the public’s knowledge), rather that Bobby Hull was well-known to have repeatedly physically abused his wives as well-documented. Again, I don’t think they are comparable.

People do make mistakes and I believe there is room for forgiveness, within reason and assuming they don’t choose to make those same mistakes for decades. Volunteering or being a good buddy doesn’t absolve you of those decades’ worth of mistakes, unfortunately.

 

[Adam da bomb]

“Let the dead bury the dead”.

Many meanings to this quote but for me we should never glorify anyone as most have sinned. Forgiveness is very important for those who have been hurt.

Lastly the truth is important and there are some truths in this. Bobby lived a complicated life he sinned but also did a number of good things.

I haven’t sinned in the same way he did nor have a done good as he did. So I won’t be the first to cast a stone.

Done good the way he did? You make it sound like he founded a soup kitchen.
Maybe he did, but I think you are selling yourself short if all we are talking about is playing hockey.

I appreciate that his existence helped Winnipeg get a nhl team.

 

[ps241]

Sorry, but to hell with his maker. Forgiveness is between him and those he wronged. Full stop. I know people can get better, I hope he did for his loved ones sake. I'm not privy to those intimate details so that's all I have to say about him dying - I hope he got better.

Also congrats on getting sober, I've been on and off for awhile now and hope I can pull through at some point. Recently fell off after 128 days. Shit's hard.

My business partner and good friend of over 30 years has had an off again, on again, mostly on again battle with trying to stay sober. He is a really good person that has this really shitty addiction he fights. He gets knocked down more than anyone I know but the good news is he always gets up and punches back. As a spectator who has had a ring side seat and has been pretty affected by it directly I can say it has been exhausting at times. At one point we had to do a “strategic reorganization” of our company. Our Lawyer at the time paid us a nice compliment when he said he had never seen two business partners sit down and work out a separation agreement in a more civil way in his 40 years in practice. The funny part is since then we have done lots of deals together where we jointly own pieces of new ventures but we just have to have other people operate those entities for us. Trying to explain it confuses the shit out of everyone but he and I laugh about it.

I have sat in judgment of him lots in the past but I keep reminding myself that I am probably more flawed than him just not in that way. I am constantly battling to try to get to a place of empathy and forgiveness, although that is an up hill battle for me (one of my many flaws). Selfishly, forgiveness is a much more peaceful place when I arrive there vs judgment which is a really negative place for me emotionally. The way I forgive myself (another battle I fight) is by focusing on my actions which at the end of the day have always been and remain supportive of my buddies fight.

Hang in there my friend I have no doubt you have people around you who love you and are cheering for you to win the next round in your fight.

 

[wpgallday1960]

I’ll always be grateful to Hull for bringing pro hockey to Winnipeg and being a part of some of the most entertaining hockey I have ever seen.
Sad that his off ice behaviour has tarnished what should be a glowing legacy.
RIP, Golden Jet.

 

[scelaton]

Ben Hatskin is the real hero--founder of the WHA Jets and the guy who induced Bobby Hull to bolt the NHL and come to Winnipeg. But without Hull's defiant character, he would never have left Chicago and we would not have an NHL team in Winnipeg.

I was just an adolescent when the WHA Jets played here, but still cannot remember a more skilled and fun line to watch than the Hot Line of Hedberg, Nielsson and Hull. Ever, in any league.

My most memorable Hull moment on the ice was not a booming shot or dash down the wing. It was during a melee, when Dave Hanson ripped Hull's toupee right off (I believe they were stitched in). I could not believe it. Hull is said to have responded to the young Hanson, "It's OK kid, I needed a new one anyway". And he did--that was the ugliest hairpiece I've ever seen!

I've been to many funerals and eulogized my share of people. Not all of them were very nice and I fought with some of them when they were alive (tho never pulled any toupees off, sadly). Some of the things Bobby Hull did in his personal life--especially when he'd been drinking-- were reprehensible, and his legacy will forever be tarnished by them. But the time to fight people is when they are alive, not at their (HF) funeral.

RIP Bobby Hull.

 

[Buffdog]

There seems to be a few nuanced opinions on here, which is encouraging.

We live in a world where all topics seem to have to be black or white - and if I'm on "Team White" or "Team Black", everyone who isn't on my team is an enemy - even those of us who like to look at complex topics from multiple angles and often times end up with opinions that fall into the grey area between both sides. It's a frustrating way to live, since both sides are actively vilifying us constantly

I don't see why Hull can't be recognized for his on ice play and his importance to the city of Winnipeg while at the same time called out for his off ice behaviour.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'll just address this post.

I will admit to having an alcohol problem. My sponsor (AA) was a great guy. He was 50, Indigenous, going to college for social work. He did a 8 1/2 year stint at Stony Mountain. Apparently after a bender, he found a man in bed with his wife, and nearly beat him to death. In prison, he joined AA, became a model prisoner, and started working with at risk youth to discourage them from gang life, and is involved in the community.

Now my question is this: The man he beat had permanent injuries, although my sponsor reached out for forgiveness. Should he be judged for eternity due to bad acts he committed when he was sick with alcoholism? People can change.

As for Hull, I have no idea if he reformed, quit drinking (I heard he could be a monster when inebriated), or if he asked for forgiveness. It's not my place to judge. All I know is he was instrumental in the early success of the Jets,a nd possibly the reason they were able to be absorbed into the NHL. He also did charity work, and went out of his way to greet fans.

That does not obviously absolve him of some of the bad things that he did, and I was really disappointed when I learned about Hull's treatment of women 20 years ago. Should he be forgive? That's ultimately between him and his maker.

However, I guess I grew up in an environment where it was frowned upon to speak ill of the dead. I just don't understand what the point of it would be, but perhaps I am missing something.

I speculate that he must have quit drinking just because he lived to 84. Beyond that, I don't know.

I don't want to sweep his sins under the rug. But I don't want to condemn him forever either. I try not to judge, not always successfully.

 

[Adam da bomb]

There seems to be a few nuanced opinions on here, which is encouraging.

We live in a world where all topics seem to have to be black or white - and if I'm on "Team White" or "Team Black", everyone who isn't on my team is an enemy - even those of us who like to look at complex topics from multiple angles and often times end up with opinions that fall into the grey area between both sides. It's a frustrating way to live, since both sides are actively vilifying us constantly

I don't see why Hull can't be recognized for his on ice play and his importance to the city of Winnipeg while at the same time called out for his off ice behaviour.

He was very good at his job and as a result played an important part in Wpg’s history.

Don’t know what kind of person he was.

 

[10Ducky10]

I know a couple guys that guided him for fishing up North. Before he even landed his PR guy told them which topics were off the table. His kids and his brother Dennis were not to be talked about...at all.

 

[Slimy Sculpin]

Tomorrow's editorial from The Free Press:

When a noteworthy figure in sports or entertainment dies, what inevitably follows is an examination of a life and career; more often than not, the reflection is cast as a celebration of the exploits of a departed hero.

The passing of hockey star Bobby Hull prompts rather a more complicated question. For as much as he is considered to have been a legend on the ice, history has revealed him to have been a deeply troubled, and troubling, individual away from the sports arena.

Mr. Hull, who died Monday at the age of 84, compiled a list of on-the-ice accomplishments that would place him among the game’s all-time greatest players. He was the just the third National Hockey League player to score 50 goals in a season — a feat he matched or eclipsed four more times — and led the league in goal-scoring seven times.

He, along with Chicago Blackhawks teammate Stan Mikita, ushered in the era of curved hockey-stick blades and, in the process, fundamentally changed the way the game was played. The velocity of his slapshot prompted a revolution in the manner in which goaltenders protect themselves.

In 1961, he helped bring the Chicago team its first Stanley Cup in 23 years (it wouldn’t win another until 2010). He was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame in 1983.

For fans of hockey who call Winnipeg home, Mr. Hull played a pivotal role in bringing the top-level professional game to their town. His decision in 1972 — rightly disillusioned by inadequate compensation being paid to hockey’s top stars by the NHL’s wealthy but penurious team owners — to sign a multimillion-dollar contract with the Winnipeg Jets of the World Hockey Association gave the upstart league immediate credibility and inspired many other NHL stars to make a similar jump.

His performance on the ice as “the Golden Jet,” particularly while in the company of Swedish-import linemates Ulf Nilsson and Anders Hedberg, was the stuff of sporting legend. He brought championships to Winnipeg and, as the WHA was eventually absorbed by the more established league, it could fairly be argued that NHL hockey’s presence in this city is a direct result of Mr. Hull’s having decided to play here.

Off the ice, however, the man long considered one of hockey’s brightest lights was revealed to have been a dark and menacing presence. Reports of spousal abuse, sexual misconduct and alcoholism became ever more frequent and widely circulated; by the time the “Me Too” era forced a reckoning on abusive men in positions of power, Mr. Hull’s star had long since been tarnished and organizations, as well as many fans, that had once celebrated his glory essentially — and, it could be argued, rightly — turned their backs on him.

Public appearances later in his life were punctuated by unfortunate utterances such as racist remarks to a Russian newspaper in 1998 that included the observation that Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler had “some good ideas (but) just went a little too far.” (Mr. Hull filed suit against the English-language Moscow Times, but the paper stood by its reporting).

All of which leaves followers of sport and observers of societal evolution with a conflicted set of circumstances to consider when reflecting on the life of Mr. Hull. His impact on the sporting firmament, both locally and in the broader hockey context, is both considerable and undeniable. In that realm, he will very likely continue to be applauded.

His much less meritorious legacy as a human being will necessarily mute those celebrations. Long gone are the days when celebrity status and fan adulation could be wielded as a shield against consequences.

 

[raideralex99]

Tomorrow's editorial from The Free Press:

When a noteworthy figure in sports or entertainment dies, what inevitably follows is an examination of a life and career; more often than not, the reflection is cast as a celebration of the exploits of a departed hero.

The passing of hockey star Bobby Hull prompts rather a more complicated question. For as much as he is considered to have been a legend on the ice, history has revealed him to have been a deeply troubled, and troubling, individual away from the sports arena.

Mr. Hull, who died Monday at the age of 84, compiled a list of on-the-ice accomplishments that would place him among the game’s all-time greatest players. He was the just the third National Hockey League player to score 50 goals in a season — a feat he matched or eclipsed four more times — and led the league in goal-scoring seven times.

He, along with Chicago Blackhawks teammate Stan Mikita, ushered in the era of curved hockey-stick blades and, in the process, fundamentally changed the way the game was played. The velocity of his slapshot prompted a revolution in the manner in which goaltenders protect themselves.

In 1961, he helped bring the Chicago team its first Stanley Cup in 23 years (it wouldn’t win another until 2010). He was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame in 1983.

For fans of hockey who call Winnipeg home, Mr. Hull played a pivotal role in bringing the top-level professional game to their town. His decision in 1972 — rightly disillusioned by inadequate compensation being paid to hockey’s top stars by the NHL’s wealthy but penurious team owners — to sign a multimillion-dollar contract with the Winnipeg Jets of the World Hockey Association gave the upstart league immediate credibility and inspired many other NHL stars to make a similar jump.

His performance on the ice as “the Golden Jet,” particularly while in the company of Swedish-import linemates Ulf Nilsson and Anders Hedberg, was the stuff of sporting legend. He brought championships to Winnipeg and, as the WHA was eventually absorbed by the more established league, it could fairly be argued that NHL hockey’s presence in this city is a direct result of Mr. Hull’s having decided to play here.

Off the ice, however, the man long considered one of hockey’s brightest lights was revealed to have been a dark and menacing presence. Reports of spousal abuse, sexual misconduct and alcoholism became ever more frequent and widely circulated; by the time the “Me Too” era forced a reckoning on abusive men in positions of power, Mr. Hull’s star had long since been tarnished and organizations, as well as many fans, that had once celebrated his glory essentially — and, it could be argued, rightly — turned their backs on him.

Public appearances later in his life were punctuated by unfortunate utterances such as racist remarks to a Russian newspaper in 1998 that included the observation that Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler had “some good ideas (but) just went a little too far.” (Mr. Hull filed suit against the English-language Moscow Times, but the paper stood by its reporting).

All of which leaves followers of sport and observers of societal evolution with a conflicted set of circumstances to consider when reflecting on the life of Mr. Hull. His impact on the sporting firmament, both locally and in the broader hockey context, is both considerable and undeniable. In that realm, he will very likely continue to be applauded.

His much less meritorious legacy as a human being will necessarily mute those celebrations. Long gone are the days when celebrity status and fan adulation could be wielded as a shield against consequences.

if you are going to believe a Russian news article on Hull why are you not using the Russian news article on the Ukraine war?
Hull denied those stories why bring them up … besides his political views are his opinions. We are all entitled to our opinions it’s not a crime.
I meet the legend more than once and nobody will convince me he is a bad oerson.
I grew up with an alcoholic father it is not pretty but it is a disease. I hated my father in that stated but I still loved him because without him I would not be here just like the Winnipeg Jets would not be here without Bobby Hull.
RIP good buddy Bobby Hull.

 

[blues10]

I am not posting to defend any of the off ice allegations against Hull. He has been a polarizing figure since the 70's and everyone is entitled to their opinions. As a kid I recall the extramarital affair rumours between him and a female TV personality at CKY.

On the ice I recall a player that helped bring championships to Winnipeg.

As an adult I met Bobby in 2010 at the WHA Hall of Fame event in Winnipeg. We had a brief discussion as my uncle had been a teammate of his on the Blackhawks and played against him in the WHA.

People that I know that knew Bobby said he could be a real a$$ at times. Often a result of over indulging in wine in his later years. Of cource this is all hearsay.

I have no doubts in the legitimacy of some of the horrible off ice allegations.

I started digging into some of the Russian newspaper allegations against Hull. I did come across this article that is interesting.

“I am deeply offended by the false statements attributed to me with respect to Adolf Hitler and the black community in the United States,” Hull’s statement said. “To my mind, Adolf Hitler was the most evil and despicable person who ever lived and there is nothing good or positive that can ever be said about such an evil man. . . . I deeply regret any injury or insult that this regrettable situation has caused . . . “Hull Denies Remarks on Hitler, Blacks

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. One thing is for certian is that he gave credibilty to the Rebel WHA with 4 franchises eventually becoming member franchises of the NHL.
I

 

[DannyGallivan]

Bobby Hull is the only reason we have an NHL team to complain about now. Perhaps Oiler fans should be saying the same thing. That alone is reason enough to be thankful and appreciative of the very large imprint he made on the hockey world.

RIP Robert… nobody else had your combination of speed and shot. Best left winger ever.

 

[Adam da bomb]

if you are going to believe a Russian news article on Hull why are you not using the Russian news article on the Ukraine war?
Hull denied those stories why bring them up … besides his political views are his opinions. We are all entitled to our opinions it’s not a crime.
I meet the legend more than once and nobody will convince me he is a bad oerson.
I grew up with an alcoholic father it is not pretty but it is a disease. I hated my father in that stated but I still loved him because without him I would not be here just like the Winnipeg Jets would not be here without Bobby Hull.
RIP good buddy Bobby Hull.

Some shaky reasoning there. He was nice to you so can’t be a bad person. Even though multiple reports about him beating his wife.

Bobby Hull is the only reason we have an NHL team to complain about now. Perhaps Oiler fans should be saying the same thing. That alone is reason enough to be thankful and appreciative of the very large imprint he made on the hockey world.

RIP Robert… nobody else had your combination of speed and shot. Best left winger ever.

Can you be thankful for his on ice contributions and still have questions about what kind of person he was off it?

 

[Slimy Sculpin]

if you are going to believe a Russian news article on Hull why are you not using the Russian news article on the Ukraine war?
Hull denied those stories why bring them up … besides his political views are his opinions. We are all entitled to our opinions it’s not a crime.
I meet the legend more than once and nobody will convince me he is a bad oerson.
I grew up with an alcoholic father it is not pretty but it is a disease. I hated my father in that stated but I still loved him because without him I would not be here just like the Winnipeg Jets would not be here without Bobby Hull.
RIP good buddy Bobby Hull.

I have no idea why you're throwing that first sentence at me. I haven't done that. I have posted an article/editorial/op-ed from a Winnipeg newspaper for general information as not everyone has access to it. Simple as that. By the way, the banner above the piece: "Hockey's Golden Jet was a tarnished human being".